95 - 02 F1 Tech

95 - 02 F1 Tech

Author
Discussion

AW111

9,455 posts

132 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
Somewhat OT, but when I was working in factory automation we had industrial PCs we called "goldies", which had a fanless laptop cpu etc. in a finned aluminium case, with 4 real RS232/432 serial ports.
We used them to talk to all the barcode scanners etc.


AW111

9,455 posts

132 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
poppopbangbang said:
Toyota with their "water cooled" exhausts. Actually they were injecting specific quantities of water into the exhaust post collect to change the density of the exhaust gas within it and therefore the effective length of the exhaust. Worked extremely well filling in the torque hole that a V10 FPC suffers from and was quite frankly absolutely genius in it's design, execution and pitch for approval by the FIA.
Honda tried exhaust water injection on the last of their 2-stroke GP bikes, where the tuning benefits would have been even greater : I wonder which came first?

eliot

11,365 posts

253 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
poppopbangbang said:
Silent1 said:
Which are almost totally useless for anything we do as they essentially emulate an XT compatible serial port in the connector but many lack proper implementation of hardware RTS/CTS which we rely on for some things and seem to really struggle with latency when there is a constant 115200bps data flow through the port. Tried A LOT of them over the years with little success.
Have you tried PCMCIA/CARDBUS based ones:
http://www.pridopia.co.uk/952cb.html
I use for automotive and home automation, which like proper serial ports.
Also many docking stations for laptops come with a proper serial port on the back - although I'm talking about IBM thinkpads, which seem pretty strong reliable.

marshall100

1,124 posts

200 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
Did all the Toyota cars, or at least most of them find their way into the hands of private buyers?

poppopbangbang

Original Poster:

1,785 posts

140 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
marshall100 said:
Did all the Toyota cars, or at least most of them find their way into the hands of private buyers?
No not at all, or at least not complete. The racec cars (in terms of full GP spec working cars) are still with Toyota aside from those with FNT. Some show cars and PR cars went to private hands. You cannot buy a Toyota F1 from Toyota but it is possible to own one via us/FNT. TF102, 104 and 105 are available complete with spares, support, tyres and consumables in race ready form.

Silent1

19,761 posts

234 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
eliot said:
poppopbangbang said:
Silent1 said:
Which are almost totally useless for anything we do as they essentially emulate an XT compatible serial port in the connector but many lack proper implementation of hardware RTS/CTS which we rely on for some things and seem to really struggle with latency when there is a constant 115200bps data flow through the port. Tried A LOT of them over the years with little success.
Have you tried PCMCIA/CARDBUS based ones:
http://www.pridopia.co.uk/952cb.html
I use for automotive and home automation, which like proper serial ports.
Also many docking stations for laptops come with a proper serial port on the back - although I'm talking about IBM thinkpads, which seem pretty strong reliable.
there's also expresscard 34/54 versions which are a sort of crossover attempt to make pcmcia relevant to smaller laptops, sony fitted the expresscard 34 on quite a few vaios.

poppopbangbang

Original Poster:

1,785 posts

140 months

Wednesday 5th November 2014
quotequote all
Silent1 said:
eliot said:
poppopbangbang said:
Silent1 said:
Which are almost totally useless for anything we do as they essentially emulate an XT compatible serial port in the connector but many lack proper implementation of hardware RTS/CTS which we rely on for some things and seem to really struggle with latency when there is a constant 115200bps data flow through the port. Tried A LOT of them over the years with little success.
Have you tried PCMCIA/CARDBUS based ones:
http://www.pridopia.co.uk/952cb.html
I use for automotive and home automation, which like proper serial ports.
Also many docking stations for laptops come with a proper serial port on the back - although I'm talking about IBM thinkpads, which seem pretty strong reliable.
there's also expresscard 34/54 versions which are a sort of crossover attempt to make pcmcia relevant to smaller laptops, sony fitted the expresscard 34 on quite a few vaios.
We use Toughbooks, which are order'able with one or two proper serial ports and have 12 hour battery life. Not to mention being bulletproof (literally), water proof and able to act as an emergency wheel chock if required.

Macbook for show, Toughbook for a pro and all that wink

poppopbangbang

Original Poster:

1,785 posts

140 months

Monday 6th April 2015
quotequote all
So busy winter.....

First off here are two engines that now work again:

Firstly fully old school with an ED on a cable throttle. This one was a pain, not just because bits are hard to get as it's not that common with a HB despite what it looks like but also because we don't have a dyno ECU for this engine so ended up transplanting the entire car, dash board and all, onto the dyno. You can see the dash suspended in the top right hand corner wink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMiP8EBfqfI

Knocked the rev limit down by 1000RPM over what it would have run in the day to get a few more KMs life from it but it still sings very well for an old lump!

Then a bit more like our usual fair with another Fondmetal V10, this one is for demo use so a big chunk of revs knocked off what it would have been in the day with us only going to 14K, it still made nearly 700bhp though so that's not bad for three litres and not many revs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYDVXjFHW1Q


A bit more of a challenge was replicating the functionality of a Moog valve with a pair of PWM driven hydraulic valves but we got there in the end on that one too. Full fly by wire hydraulic clutch control with half the pressure it was designed to run on and a pair of what are basically modified industrial valves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDGThb9O4pE

For applications where the original hydraulics are missing and the package means we can't use something we have got it is simply too expensive to create them again so we end up going down the route of making something that works for the budget. It's not quick enough for a race car (response time around 90ms vs 15ms) but for demo use it's fine.

We also fixed some Ferrari F93 electronics, made a couple of old Tyrells work, fitted a steering wheel operated clutch system to a gorgeous Ralt RT3, got a couple of pretty turbo era cars going and are in the process of getting a relatively modern Jordan going again. Pics on that to follow smile



Mr Red Barron

1,568 posts

207 months

Monday 6th April 2015
quotequote all
Have you been taking an interest in any of the Caterham F1 stuff being auctioned off? Is there anything of use that you've seen and gone "we need one of those!!"?

RumbleOfThunder

3,546 posts

202 months

Monday 6th April 2015
quotequote all
Awesome stuff.

vonuber

17,868 posts

164 months

Monday 6th April 2015
quotequote all
Mr Red Barron said:
Have you been taking an interest in any of the Caterham F1 stuff being auctioned off? Is there anything of use that you've seen and gone "we need one of those!!"?
Yes, I would have thought that would have been a good place to go take a look.

PW1962

75 posts

117 months

Tuesday 7th April 2015
quotequote all
As someone who has only limited knowledge of F1 engineering I can say that this thread has by far been the best I've ever read... Thank you so much for giving us a look behind the curtain..
So what's the story behind the man ... Where did you start and how did you end up where you are now ?
You seem to know all aspects of engineering... Electronics etc ... To a very very high standard ...
Oh ... and please keep posting ... Utterly amazing stuff I'm learning ...
Paul

MJK 24

5,648 posts

235 months

Wednesday 8th April 2015
quotequote all
I wonder if PPBB or any other knowledgeable thread contributors could answer a question for me...

Last August, I visited the Enzo Ferrari museum in Maranello. They had various old F1 engines in display. A V10 and I'm pretty sure a V12 that were on display, the fuel injectors were mounted above the intake trumpets on the individual throttle body. On a more conventional set up, the injector would be mounted in the body of the throttle body below the intake trumpet.

1) Why did Ferrari mount the injector above the intake?
2) Was this common practice amongst all F1 engine manufacturers of that period?

Any answers would be much appreciated!

There was a little single cylinder Ferrari engine on display that they used for component testing. I thought that was quite
interesting!

smile

Megaflow

9,347 posts

224 months

Wednesday 8th April 2015
quotequote all
Re: Injectors above the trumpets.

It is common practice on all high very reving engines, ~12/13k plus, it improves fuel atomisation. At such speeds the fuel simply doesn't have the time/distance avaliable to atmoise and mix correctly before entering the cylinder.

Less of an issue with direct injection as the much higher pressures help.

MJK 24

5,648 posts

235 months

Wednesday 8th April 2015
quotequote all
Thanks for the answer!

poppopbangbang

Original Poster:

1,785 posts

140 months

Wednesday 8th April 2015
quotequote all
MJK 24 said:
I wonder if PPBB or any other knowledgeable thread contributors could answer a question for me...

Last August, I visited the Enzo Ferrari museum in Maranello. They had various old F1 engines in display. A V10 and I'm pretty sure a V12 that were on display, the fuel injectors were mounted above the intake trumpets on the individual throttle body. On a more conventional set up, the injector would be mounted in the body of the throttle body below the intake trumpet.

1) Why did Ferrari mount the injector above the intake?
2) Was this common practice amongst all F1 engine manufacturers of that period?

Any answers would be much appreciated!

There was a little single cylinder Ferrari engine on display that they used for component testing. I thought that was quite
interesting!

smile
Throttles over trumpets as stated by Megaflow are for mixing, there are also some advantages with reducing wall wetting in the port under certain conditions for more accurate AFR control.

With regards your second questions yes stand off injectors were common to all F1 engines during this period and were right up until the engines went DI in 2014.

poppopbangbang

Original Poster:

1,785 posts

140 months

Wednesday 8th April 2015
quotequote all
PW1962 said:
As someone who has only limited knowledge of F1 engineering I can say that this thread has by far been the best I've ever read... Thank you so much for giving us a look behind the curtain..
So what's the story behind the man ... Where did you start and how did you end up where you are now ?
You seem to know all aspects of engineering... Electronics etc ... To a very very high standard ...
Oh ... and please keep posting ... Utterly amazing stuff I'm learning ...
Paul
Started when I was 15 and never stopped is the best way to sum it up with various jobs in motorsport along the way with teams, engine suppliers etc. All aspects of engineering is a bit of a stretch though - my skill set is very much engine, gearbox, control focused. I'm definitely not the bloke you want putting a setup on a car or developing your aero wink

dr_gn

16,140 posts

183 months

Wednesday 8th April 2015
quotequote all
Hello PPBB, I've asked about the FW14B before on this thread, and I know it's a bit "out of scope", but do you happen to know what the silver disc was for in front of the the front suspension actuators? It's not often on examples seen today, but was in place back in the day, and can be seen on the model photo below (credit - I think - to Andy Matthews, who built the model and wrote the book):


DaveL485

2,758 posts

196 months

Wednesday 8th April 2015
quotequote all
How long does it take to get these lumps on to, and off of, the dyno rig? Must take a good few hours for each? smile

americancrx

394 posts

216 months

Thursday 15th October 2015
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Great thread! As an engineer in the passenger car industry, this is the stuff I look up to for design elegance and try to get close to with manufacturing techniques appropriate for 300,000 per year.

You mentioned your company selling off lifed-out brake discs.

I'd like to buy lifed-out clutches - either just the c-c discs or the entire clutch assemblies. Are those for sale?