Lewis Hamilton

[kiseca]

sparta6 said:

I'll rephrase for you
Bottas' tenure is yet to conclude, so we cannot yet value his yield over the team's investment term.

Points = £££ = ROI

Button delivered a better cash yield for McLaren through his tenure.

F1 is a business. Are there no Hedge Fund managers on PH ?

I almost feel compelled to carry out a straw poll at 5 Hertford Street tonight

You've valued him dozens of times already on these forums

Good luck with your straw poll, you're certainly getting good practice clutching at them.

[paulguitar]

sparta6 said:

Well Button outscored Hamilton over the 3 year tenure.

As has been pointed out repeatedly, in F1 we add up the points at the end of each season, so Lewis beat Jenson 2/1 and Nico 3/1.

I remember when Hulkenburg rammed Lewis out of the lead in Lewis’s last race for McLaren that this would now mean that Button had outscored him in total points over that three years and just knowing that internet eccentrics would be using that misleading start to argue Button had been better somehow forevermore.

I was right, here you are, still at it.

[E34-3.2]

paulguitar said:

As has been pointed out repeatedly, in F1 we add up the points at the end of each season, so Lewis beat Jenson 2/1 and Nico 3/1.

I remember when Hulkenburg rammed Lewis out of the lead in Lewis’s last race for McLaren that this would now mean that Button had outscored him in total points over that three years and just knowing that internet eccentrics would be using that misleading start to argue Button had been better somehow forevermore.

I was right, here you are, still at it.

Actually someone one another forum took the time to compare Hamilton v Button by taking away all the misfortune both drivers had which weren't in any form their faults. Very interesting and makes you realised how much better Hamilton was.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/377rhp/...

Check the qualifying In 2012. Button was made to look like a rookie.
17 to 3 for Hamilton and an average of 0.429s ahead over the season. 7 times during the season, he was more that 0.5s ahead during qualy! On that season alone, Hamilton lost 150 points due to bad luck non related to the driver... And some people wonder why he left McLaren...

[vdn]

E34-3.2 said:

Actually someone one another forum took the time to compare Hamilton v Button by taking away all the misfortune both drivers had which weren't in any form their faults. Very interesting and makes you realised how much better Hamilton was.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/377rhp/...

Check the qualifying In 2012. Button was made to look like a rookie.
17 to 3 for Hamilton and an average of 0.429s ahead over the season. 7 times during the season, he was more that 0.5s ahead during qualy! On that season alone, Hamilton lost 150 points due to bad luck non related to the driver... And some people wonder why he left McLaren...

Wow! That is some difference in performance.

But Sparta will claim that Jenson is the better driver still!

[sparta6]

kiseca said:

Good luck with your straw poll, you're certainly getting good practice clutching at them.

It transpired there were more interesting things to do and discuss at Number 5

[paulguitar]

sparta6 said:

It transpired there were more interesting things to do and discuss at Number 5

I have no idea what ‘Number 5 is’ but I am not at all surprised you decided on alternative subject matter, looking at the way you have been humiliated here.

[Munter]

paulguitar said:

I have no idea what ‘Number 5 is’

OMG I can't believe you don't know. Hahahaha

(It's between 4 and 6 right?)

[cuprabob]

paulguitar said:

I have no idea what ‘Number 5 is’

What an odd number

[kiseca]

It's a club so exclusive (I had to google it anyway) that it holds the secret truths about Lewis's ability and only a select few know them.

Or it's the place to be if you need Mick Jagger or Prince Harry's opinion on Jenson Button's ROI.

Or, sparta is suggesting that something about his role, status or training makes him immune to biases and therefore he must simply be correct about Lewis and anyone who disagrees should listen or go jump.

To be fair, I've stated my conclusions on sparta's opinion already, and I'm now just poking him to amuse myself. He's biased but not stupid so fair play that he pokes back.

[Big Robbo]

Can someone please explain why every thread descends into childish squabbling? My opinion is better than yours etc etc
Load of b****cks

[Munter]

Big Robbo said:

Can someone please explain why every thread descends into childish squabbling? My opinion is better than yours etc etc
Load of b****cks

Because on the whole people are dicks.

[paulguitar]

Munter said:

Big Robbo said:

Can someone please explain why every thread descends into childish squabbling? My opinion is better than yours etc etc
Load of b****cks

Because on the whole people are dicks.

I think on the whole it’s been quite good-natured on here, but it seems reasonable (to me) on a thread about a specific subject like this to make an effort to get one’s point of view across. I think the implication, for example, that only seriously injured drivers returning to F1 being worthy of ‘true greatness’ was a ridiculous idea, and so I said so. I feel the same way about relentless misleading use of stats, such as counting up the points earned in a 3 year period, once again, is just ridiculous, because in F1 we add up the points at the end of each year, not every three years.


I also don’t agree that ‘on the whole, people are dicks’. On a forum, it is hard to assess the tone of what’s being said, because we are limited to text, but I’d like to think if we were all having this discussion in a pub we’d get on well.

[TheDeuce]

paulguitar said:

I think on the whole it’s been quite good-natured on here, but it seems reasonable (to me) on a thread about a specific subject like this to make an effort to get one’s point of view across. I think the implication, for example, that only seriously injured drivers returning to F1 being worthy of ‘true greatness’ was a ridiculous idea, and so I said so. I feel the same way about relentless misleading use of stats, such as counting up the points earned in a 3 year period, once again, is just ridiculous, because in F1 we add up the points at the end of each year, not every three years.


I also don’t agree that ‘on the whole, people are dicks’. On a forum, it is hard to assess the tone of what’s being said, because we are limited to text, but I’d like to think if we were all having this discussion in a pub we’d get on well.

I'm sure we would all get on fine - and having met face to face I'm equally sure we'd all do a better job of remaining polite and not antagonising one another sometimes

But yes, it is what it is - all forums are the same, other than perhaps mumsnet! And overall, this corner of PH is pretty mild and generally the comments are more likely to educate or entertain than they are to cause upset, at least that's how I feel.

There are also plenty of threads that don't deteriorate.

[King David]

sparta6 said:

I'll rephrase for you
Bottas' tenure is yet to conclude, so we cannot yet value his yield over the team's investment term.

Points = £££ = ROI

Button delivered a better cash yield for McLaren through his tenure.

F1 is a business. Are there no Hedge Fund managers on PH ?

I almost feel compelled to carry out a straw poll at 5 Hertford Street tonight

The problem with that argument is your premise of "Points = £££ = ROI" isn't strictly true.

The reality is that "Championship Position = £££ = ROI".

Each team is charged an additional £6,000 per point scored in the previous year when they pay their entry fee for the championship.
So, if you're judging a driver's value purely by his contribution to the final prize money a team wins, the best ROI is the driver who nets just enough points to secure the team their best possible finish, which is not necessarily the same thing.

Of course it would be ridiculous to assume a driver's ROI can only be judged on final prize money. The ability of a Hamilton or Alonso to draw sponsors with massive budgets is of far more value.

[Exige77]

King David said:

sparta6 said:

I'll rephrase for you
Bottas' tenure is yet to conclude, so we cannot yet value his yield over the team's investment term.

Points = £££ = ROI

Button delivered a better cash yield for McLaren through his tenure.

F1 is a business. Are there no Hedge Fund managers on PH ?

I almost feel compelled to carry out a straw poll at 5 Hertford Street tonight

The problem with that argument is your premise of "Points = £££ = ROI" isn't strictly true.

The reality is that "Championship Position = £££ = ROI".

Each team is charged an additional £6,000 per point scored in the previous year when they pay their entry fee for the championship.
So, if you're judging a driver's value purely by his contribution to the final prize money a team wins, the best ROI is the driver who nets just enough points to secure the team their best possible finish, which is not necessarily the same thing.

Of course it would be ridiculous to assume a driver's ROI can only be judged on final prize money. The ability of a Hamilton or Alonso to draw sponsors with massive budgets is of far more value.

^^^^^^What he said but I guess we all knew Sparta wasn’t being serious.

[M3ax]

sparta6 said:

kiseca said:

Good luck with your straw poll, you're certainly getting good practice clutching at them.

It transpired there were more interesting things to do and discuss at Number 5

Every body knows that the important discussions take place at El Pirata. No. 5 is for afters.

[Deesee]

Here’s a sneak peak of the swap

https://www.instagram.com/p/B5714ARB0tD/

[E-bmw]

That is sh!t, the musical accompaniment is so loud you can't hear them speak!

[Deesee]

Deesee said:

Here’s a sneak peak of the swap

https://www.instagram.com/p/B5714ARB0tD/

Here’s the sky sport news spot

https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/12048251545...

& a longer feature

https://youtu.be/1S-tPUN5xnM

Edited by Deesee on Wednesday 11th December 19:25

[andygo]

Rossi 1.5 secs off Hamiltons time. Pretty good effort I think.