Lewis Hamilton

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Discussion

Exige77

2,965 posts

127 months

Saturday 1st December
quotequote all
CanoeSniffer said:
London424 said:
LDN said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
I really don't know what Hamilton does in his time out of the Car but it does seem to upset a lot of people.
He is a British Driver to add to our list of great F1 champions and he will hopefully inspire more champions of the future.
I am not sure any other driver could have done more than he has done since the Summer break he was simply in a different class to the rest of the grid it was just a pleasure to watch him drive .
It is a privilege to see him drive. Attending Silverstone a few years on the trot; the support he has with real motorsport fans is just unbelievable... I don’t know why he upsets others, as you say. But at the track; he’s loved and respected in great measure.

A friend told me that, even though he’s been massively popular outside of the UK, especially in the America’s and Asia, there was always a strong anti Hamilton contingent in parts of Europe; but even they, apparently, are coming around. Italian press for example; have been quite vocal about Vettel’s failings and have said that Hamilton in the Ferrari, would have gotten them the championship.
That’s because there’s an awful lot of pretty racist European countries still.
I really feel the need to call out this bullst. I've attended various GPs across Europe, with 'real Motorsport fans', and had a great number of conversations with a diverse- and generally lovely- range of people who support anyone from Marcus Ericsson to Lance Stroll (unfortunately usually in perfect English to make me feel particularly embarrassed about my total lack of linguistic skills, usually ends with me red-faced and mumbling a clumsy 'Merci' or 'Danke').

The general consensus has always been that Lewis Hamilton is a truly remarkably talented racing driver, almost without question its agreed that he's the best of the current crop, and it may be some years until another driver comes along with his sheer talent and cool calm winning mentality when in the car. At no point have any of these dirty foreign racists shown anything but tremendous respect for Lewis Hamilton, the racing driver.

Almost unanimous agreement is also reached that he is simply an antagonistic personality, so wrapped up in a PR actions tornado that he appears completely dishonest and self-indulgent. This is not intended as an attack, nor is it how I desire to feel about the best British racing driver I may ever see in my lifetime. It's an honest unadulterated observation, I cannot choose to feel differently.

But what do I know, I'm just a mindless racist.
I don’t recognise your 3rd paragraph at all.

I don’t think it’s “almost unanimous”

London424

11,323 posts

111 months

Saturday 1st December
quotequote all
CanoeSniffer said:
London424 said:
LDN said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
I really don't know what Hamilton does in his time out of the Car but it does seem to upset a lot of people.
He is a British Driver to add to our list of great F1 champions and he will hopefully inspire more champions of the future.
I am not sure any other driver could have done more than he has done since the Summer break he was simply in a different class to the rest of the grid it was just a pleasure to watch him drive .
It is a privilege to see him drive. Attending Silverstone a few years on the trot; the support he has with real motorsport fans is just unbelievable... I don’t know why he upsets others, as you say. But at the track; he’s loved and respected in great measure.

A friend told me that, even though he’s been massively popular outside of the UK, especially in the America’s and Asia, there was always a strong anti Hamilton contingent in parts of Europe; but even they, apparently, are coming around. Italian press for example; have been quite vocal about Vettel’s failings and have said that Hamilton in the Ferrari, would have gotten them the championship.
That’s because there’s an awful lot of pretty racist European countries still.
I really feel the need to call out this bullst. I've attended various GPs across Europe, with 'real Motorsport fans', and had a great number of conversations with a diverse- and generally lovely- range of people who support anyone from Marcus Ericsson to Lance Stroll (unfortunately usually in perfect English to make me feel particularly embarrassed about my total lack of linguistic skills, usually ends with me red-faced and mumbling a clumsy 'Merci' or 'Danke').

The general consensus has always been that Lewis Hamilton is a truly remarkably talented racing driver, almost without question its agreed that he's the best of the current crop, and it may be some years until another driver comes along with his sheer talent and cool calm winning mentality when in the car. At no point have any of these dirty foreign racists shown anything but tremendous respect for Lewis Hamilton, the racing driver.

Almost unanimous agreement is also reached that he is simply an antagonistic personality, so wrapped up in a PR actions tornado that he appears completely dishonest and self-indulgent. This is not intended as an attack, nor is it how I desire to feel about the best British racing driver I may ever see in my lifetime. It's an honest unadulterated observation, I cannot choose to feel differently.

But what do I know, I'm just a mindless racist.
I don’t think reading comprehension is a strong point of yours.

I just pointed out that a lot of European countries are quite racist still and that’s why it’s taken longer for them to come round to him than in other parts of the world.

Of course it isn’t a majority of fans or anything, but it’s there and it’s not limited to F1. It’s in many sports.

CanoeSniffer

542 posts

23 months

Sunday 2nd December
quotequote all
I agree that 'almost unanimous' was the wrong phrase for me to use, I should have added IME or similar.

The point being that of many people I know personally or have had the pleasure to sit trackside and talk F1 with, I've only met one person who regularly watches and doesn't find Hamilton even slightly grating, but then he thinks that Silverstone is the greatest circuit ever built and as far as I'm aware has never been to a race.

Rather than trying to argue that I'm right or Hamilton fans are wrong (I know full well that discussion goes nowhere), I'm just making the point that there are MANY reasons why people take an anti-Hamilton stance and to simply cry 'racism!' is very churlish and is a very serious allegation to level at people who may think that actually the bloke is just a bit of a bellend.

Anyway, with that point made I'll pipe down now and continue to do what I have for all of the 2018 season- be massively impressed with a very very fine racing driver. I can't pretend to be rooting for him, but I have a sneaking suspicion the new aero rules for next year could bring F1 incrementally closer to being an engine formula, in which case he's in the right team with the right dynamic around him. I'll be watching with interest to see if he can match Schuey's 7 titles- good luck to him.

Exige77

2,965 posts

127 months

Sunday 2nd December
quotequote all
CanoeSniffer said:
I agree that 'almost unanimous' was the wrong phrase for me to use, I should have added IME or similar.

The point being that of many people I know personally or have had the pleasure to sit trackside and talk F1 with, I've only met one person who regularly watches and doesn't find Hamilton even slightly grating, but then he thinks that Silverstone is the greatest circuit ever built and as far as I'm aware has never been to a race.

Rather than trying to argue that I'm right or Hamilton fans are wrong (I know full well that discussion goes nowhere), I'm just making the point that there are MANY reasons why people take an anti-Hamilton stance and to simply cry 'racism!' is very churlish and is a very serious allegation to level at people who may think that actually the bloke is just a bit of a bellend.

Anyway, with that point made I'll pipe down now and continue to do what I have for all of the 2018 season- be massively impressed with a very very fine racing driver. I can't pretend to be rooting for him, but I have a sneaking suspicion the new aero rules for next year could bring F1 incrementally closer to being an engine formula, in which case he's in the right team with the right dynamic around him. I'll be watching with interest to see if he can match Schuey's 7 titles- good luck to him.
Very happy your going to pipe down clap

CanoeSniffer

542 posts

23 months

Sunday 2nd December
quotequote all
Exige77 said:
Very happy your going to pipe down clap
laugh

Yes, opposing viewpoints are very tedious aren't they. Feel free to continue the circle-jerk.

wink
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eccles

10,419 posts

158 months

Sunday 2nd December
quotequote all
CanoeSniffer said:
Exige77 said:
Very happy your going to pipe down clap
laugh

Yes, opposing viewpoints are very tedious aren't they. Feel free to continue the circle-jerk.

wink
rofl

Exige77

2,965 posts

127 months

Sunday 2nd December
quotequote all
CanoeSniffer said:
Exige77 said:
Very happy your going to pipe down clap
laugh

Yes, opposing viewpoints are very tedious aren't they. Feel free to continue the circle-jerk.

wink
There’s no problem with opposing views. That’s what a discussion and exchange of views is for.

Problem comes when people say nearly everybody agrees with their view when it’s blatantly not true.

And reverting to name calling biggrin

CanoeSniffer

542 posts

23 months

Sunday 2nd December
quotequote all
Exige77 said:
CanoeSniffer said:
Exige77 said:
Very happy your going to pipe down clap
laugh

Yes, opposing viewpoints are very tedious aren't they. Feel free to continue the circle-jerk.

wink
There’s no problem with opposing views. That’s what a discussion and exchange of views is for.

Problem comes when people say nearly everybody agrees with their view when it’s blatantly not true.

And reverting to name calling biggrin
I conceded that I should have added 'IME' to that post, in retrospect once that detail is included it's not dishonest- I don't seem to encounter Hamilton fans, but then I'm not much of a social media user which may explain why.

I don't really care how many people do or don't agree with me, I joined the discussion only to dispel this malicious 'racism' claim by people who seem unable to comprehend that someone simply might not like the bloke. I wouldn't entertain a racist for a second, and I don't like the implication that it's the only possible explanation for myself and the majority of my F1-following friends not to have taken to him.

No names have been called smile

Deesee

1,258 posts

19 months

Sunday 2nd December
quotequote all
All the victories ( for 44) from 2018 being shown on Sky F1 today,

Just re-watched Baku, what a race! (Valtteri sooo unluckily).

Polite M135 driver

1,173 posts

20 months

Sunday 2nd December
quotequote all
One thing for all to google: unconscious bias.

It’s we know that societies hold ‘others’ to higher standards than the majority.

Eg if kimi raikonnen told a journalist to fk off everyone would chuckle and feel a warm glow (what a character), whereas I suspect if Lewis Hamilton did the same there would be a lot of condemnation.

Lannister902

1,083 posts

39 months

Sunday 2nd December
quotequote all
Polite M135 driver said:
One thing for all to google: unconscious bias.

It’s we know that societies hold ‘others’ to higher standards than the majority.

Eg if kimi raikonnen told a journalist to fk off everyone would chuckle and feel a warm glow (what a character), whereas I suspect if Lewis Hamilton did the same there would be a lot of condemnation.
Kimi seems to be the Trump of f1. He can say wtf he wants, people just laugh/ignore and carry on their ways.
No other driver could get away with the antics Kimi has in his career, and they'd be seriously criticised for their behaviour if they tried

768

3,500 posts

32 months

Sunday 2nd December
quotequote all
Polite M135 driver said:
One thing for all to google: unconscious bias.
The sooner that term falls from public consciousness the better as far as I'm concerned.

Polite M135 driver said:
Eg if kimi raikonnen told a journalist to fk off everyone would chuckle and feel a warm glow (what a character), whereas I suspect if Lewis Hamilton did the same there would be a lot of condemnation.
Yes, but that's no indicator of anything unconscious.

Pebbles167

2,127 posts

88 months

Sunday 2nd December
quotequote all
Seasons over, and he's had a crash! On a motorbike.

Seems like he's ok mind.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.crash.net/f1/ne...

37chevy

2,139 posts

92 months

Sunday 2nd December
quotequote all
Lannister902 said:
Kimi seems to be the Trump of f1. He can say wtf he wants, people just laugh/ignore and carry on their ways.
No other driver could get away with the antics Kimi has in his career, and they'd be seriously criticised for their behaviour if they tried
Oh I don’t know. Max seems to be getting a bit of a free pass at the moment too by at least half the fans

Deesee

1,258 posts

19 months

Sunday 2nd December
quotequote all
Stat of the day..

The Deutschlandlied has now been played the same time (52) for Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel....

TobyTR

230 posts

82 months

Sunday 2nd December
quotequote all
CanoeSniffer said:
I really feel the need to call out this bullst. I've attended various GPs across Europe, with 'real Motorsport fans', and had a great number of conversations with a diverse- and generally lovely- range of people who support anyone from Marcus Ericsson to Lance Stroll (unfortunately usually in perfect English to make me feel particularly embarrassed about my total lack of linguistic skills, usually ends with me red-faced and mumbling a clumsy 'Merci' or 'Danke').

The general consensus has always been that Lewis Hamilton is a truly remarkably talented racing driver, almost without question its agreed that he's the best of the current crop, and it may be some years until another driver comes along with his sheer talent and cool calm winning mentality when in the car. At no point have any of these dirty foreign racists shown anything but tremendous respect for Lewis Hamilton, the racing driver.

Almost unanimous agreement is also reached that he is simply an antagonistic personality, so wrapped up in a PR actions tornado that he appears completely dishonest and self-indulgent. This is not intended as an attack, nor is it how I desire to feel about the best British racing driver I may ever see in my lifetime. It's an honest unadulterated observation, I cannot choose to feel differently.

But what do I know, I'm just a mindless racist.
+1 you're correct with everything you've said

I worked alongside a motorsport scribe who was employed on one of the prominent UK F1 titles. Back in 2014 he interviewed Hamilton and asked him "Have you had any PR training?"

Lewis' reply: "I've never had any PR training."....... rolleyes

Great F1 driver all the same. One of the best on the grid.


Edited by TobyTR on Sunday 2nd December 22:01

BlackPrince

1,092 posts

105 months

Sunday 2nd December
quotequote all
768 said:
Yes, but that's no indicator of anything unconscious.

why is it the sooner that term falls from use the better?

BlackPrince

1,092 posts

105 months

Sunday 2nd December
quotequote all
CanoeSniffer said:
I really feel the need to call out this bullst. I've attended various GPs across Europe, with 'real Motorsport fans', and had a great number of conversations with a diverse- and generally lovely- range of people who support anyone from Marcus Ericsson to Lance Stroll (unfortunately usually in perfect English to make me feel particularly embarrassed about my total lack of linguistic skills, usually ends with me red-faced and mumbling a clumsy 'Merci' or 'Danke').

The general consensus has always been that Lewis Hamilton is a truly remarkably talented racing driver, almost without question its agreed that he's the best of the current crop, and it may be some years until another driver comes along with his sheer talent and cool calm winning mentality when in the car. At no point have any of these dirty foreign racists shown anything but tremendous respect for Lewis Hamilton, the racing driver.

Almost unanimous agreement is also reached that he is simply an antagonistic personality, so wrapped up in a PR actions tornado that he appears completely dishonest and self-indulgent. This is not intended as an attack, nor is it how I desire to feel about the best British racing driver I may ever see in my lifetime. It's an honest unadulterated observation, I cannot choose to feel differently.

But what do I know, I'm just a mindless racist.
Which F1 stars are NOT 'antagonistic' and 'self-indulgent?' I'll give you my list of those who would appear to possess those aforementioned qualities: Vettel, Alonso, Schumacher when he was racing, Senna, Mansel, Raikonnen, Rosberg, and from the world of MotoGP Valentino Rossi, Marquez, Lorenzo, Stoner, and the list goes on and on and on. Personally, I don't really care much about their personal character traits, and only really care how they perform on track.

Secondly, and this is not directly addressing you Canoe, but is tangential to your point on race: I think people are reacting (rightly or wrongly) to Hamilton becoming more (pop culture) "black" in the last few years. Do I hate neck tattoos and am I annoyed by black celebrities who have no interest in F1 but just want to latch onto Lewis, appearing at races and such? Yes. But the same thing probably happens to all famous sportsmen and women - look at early videos of Conor McGregor and he's unrecognizable in his lack of tattoos, clean shaven face and shy demeanour. And I know he has hangers-on that probably have little interest in MMA. It makes sense in a way that the same transformation has happened to Hamilton.

I think his neck tats, and 90s rapper jewelry are silly, but as far as the only thing that should matter as far as Hamilton's out-of-car behaviour is concerned - his character, he is beyond reproach. He is exceptionally polite, and though yes, he has had his share of whining, its never completely out of order or out of bounds in the way other racers have been in the past



768

3,500 posts

32 months

Monday 3rd December
quotequote all
BlackPrince said:
768 said:
Yes, but that's no indicator of anything unconscious.

why is it the sooner that term falls from use the better?
I'm scarred by seeing public sector departments use it as a lazy trope to demand equality of outcome. i.e. even if you mostly need to hire maths graduates in the North of Scotland if you don't have enough black women it's assumed by some to be because of unconscious bias and to offer any alternative explanation is sexist/racist/etc. They literally think the argument is above question because it's unconscious, even if your hiring process was run by a national lottery machine I'm sure they'd make the same argument.

One year I saw a photo of a graduate intake posted on an internal forum with a message saying it was "disgusting" and they couldn't look at it - it was maybe 20 people, surprisingly a few different skin tones but maybe only five you'd pick out as female. Five is way above the proportion applying. Young men who were objectively better candidates were likely not being offered places as it was. And at some point they'd find that photo of themselves, fresh faced at the start of their careers, probably while still daunted by the experience, labelled disgusting.

Anyway, it's not NP&E..!

HighwayStar

2,023 posts

80 months

Monday 3rd December
quotequote all
BlackPrince said:
CanoeSniffer said:
I really feel the need to call out this bullst. I've attended various GPs across Europe, with 'real Motorsport fans', and had a great number of conversations with a diverse- and generally lovely- range of people who support anyone from Marcus Ericsson to Lance Stroll (unfortunately usually in perfect English to make me feel particularly embarrassed about my total lack of linguistic skills, usually ends with me red-faced and mumbling a clumsy 'Merci' or 'Danke').

The general consensus has always been that Lewis Hamilton is a truly remarkably talented racing driver, almost without question its agreed that he's the best of the current crop, and it may be some years until another driver comes along with his sheer talent and cool calm winning mentality when in the car. At no point have any of these dirty foreign racists shown anything but tremendous respect for Lewis Hamilton, the racing driver.

Almost unanimous agreement is also reached that he is simply an antagonistic personality, so wrapped up in a PR actions tornado that he appears completely dishonest and self-indulgent. This is not intended as an attack, nor is it how I desire to feel about the best British racing driver I may ever see in my lifetime. It's an honest unadulterated observation, I cannot choose to feel differently.

But what do I know, I'm just a mindless racist.
Which F1 stars are NOT 'antagonistic' and 'self-indulgent?' I'll give you my list of those who would appear to possess those aforementioned qualities: Vettel, Alonso, Schumacher when he was racing, Senna, Mansel, Raikonnen, Rosberg, and from the world of MotoGP Valentino Rossi, Marquez, Lorenzo, Stoner, and the list goes on and on and on. Personally, I don't really care much about their personal character traits, and only really care how they perform on track.

Secondly, and this is not directly addressing you Canoe, but is tangential to your point on race: I think people are reacting (rightly or wrongly) to Hamilton becoming more (pop culture) "black" in the last few years. Do I hate neck tattoos and am I annoyed by black celebrities who have no interest in F1 but just want to latch onto Lewis, appearing at races and such? Yes. But the same thing probably happens to all famous sportsmen and women - look at early videos of Conor McGregor and he's unrecognizable in his lack of tattoos, clean shaven face and shy demeanour. And I know he has hangers-on that probably have little interest in MMA. It makes sense in a way that the same transformation has happened to Hamilton.

I think his neck tats, and 90s rapper jewelry are silly, but as far as the only thing that should matter as far as Hamilton's out-of-car behaviour is concerned - his character, he is beyond reproach. He is exceptionally polite, and though yes, he has had his share of whining, its never completely out of order or out of bounds in the way other racers have been in the past
There will be various reasons why people become interested in F1, be it one of their countryman coming to prominence and doing really well or by being introduced to it by someone else. There will be plenty of Dutch fans new to F1 who had no interest in the sport until Max arrived. I have a friend who wouldn't be interested if Lewis wasn't there and I have to explain almost everything to him so your point is valid. There will be people (plebs and celebs) who have been attracted to F1 because of Lewis who then become interested in F1, what it is and how it works.

Michael Douglas and Hugh Grant are big fans... I remember Liz Hurley in amongst the grid at Monaco, Brundle manages to get a few words with her. She had no clue. He asked her who she thought would win.. all she could say was something about the nice cars and the pretty boys. I don't care how good she looks, she was a waste of time and effort. Still, some of Lewis's friends get want to see what he does/get invited to a race, why be annoyed by his black celebrity friends?