Lewis Hamilton

Author
Discussion

Deesee

1,302 posts

20 months

Thursday 10th January
quotequote all
lbc said:
Bottas and Vettel will be gone next year if the don't perform.
Bottas lost a personal sponsor this week (that he’s had since 12 yrs old) that partially pays/supplements his salary.

Needs a fast winning start IMO.

lbc

2,546 posts

154 months

Thursday 10th January
quotequote all
Deesee said:
lbc said:
Bottas and Vettel will be gone next year if they don't perform.
Bottas lost a personal sponsor this week (that he’s had since 12 yrs old) that partially pays/supplements his salary.

Needs a fast winning start IMO.
Toto Wolf has said Bottas needs to be winning races on par with Hamilton this season in order to keep his seat.



HTP99

13,405 posts

77 months

Thursday 10th January
quotequote all
lbc said:
Deesee said:
lbc said:
Bottas and Vettel will be gone next year if they don't perform.
Bottas lost a personal sponsor this week (that he’s had since 12 yrs old) that partially pays/supplements his salary.

Needs a fast winning start IMO.
Toto Wolf has said Bottas needs to be winning races on par with Hamilton this season in order to keep his seat.
Well he'll be looking for new employment then!

Gary C

4,522 posts

116 months

Thursday 10th January
quotequote all
Deesee said:
lbc said:
Bottas and Vettel will be gone next year if the don't perform.
Bottas lost a personal sponsor this week (that he’s had since 12 yrs old) that partially pays/supplements his salary.

Needs a fast winning start IMO.
Bottas, yes, Vettel, no, not yet, still got enough capital.

sparta6

1,110 posts

37 months

Thursday 10th January
quotequote all
HighwayStar said:
sparta6 said:
37chevy said:
sparta6 said:
I'm not expecting much of a title challenge from Ferrari this season. I wouldn't be surprised if Renault got close to them in points.
I’d love to hear your reasoning behind this opinion....what leads you to believe that Ferrari will drop that far back?
I'm expecting Renault to close the gap on Ferrari. Ferrari has a new boss, new young driver unexperienced in a top team, lots of new moving parts.
Unless Vettel can nail it out of the starting gates I don't see much of a threat for the WDC.
Sparta, you are so wide the mark here. The 'new boss' was formerly the chief technical officer under Arrivabene. An engineer.

"Binotto first joined Ferrari in 1995, originally as a test engine engineer – and then performed a similar role for the race team from 1997 to 2003.

After a spell as a race engine engineer, and chief engineer, he became head of engine and KERS in 2009 – before stepping up to chief operating officer of the power unit at the end of 2014.'

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/binotto-replace...

Arrivabene... they won't even notice he's gone.

As for Renault closing the gap to Ferrari... Honestly, I hope they do, they are claiming big gains in the engine and wind tunnel but.... Mercedes and Ferrari are a moving target, they will have been burning the midnight oil and riding the wild software too. Renault could turn up in Oz a few 10ths closer or just as far back.


Edited by HighwayStar on Thursday 10th January 15:55
Being a technical chief is very different psychologically from being the actual Boss. No doubting Binotto's talent but some can hack the National, Media and Political pressure, others cannot, time will tell. I hope he can.

With Renault, they have a master manipulator and politician in Prost, so I would not rule anything out.



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HighwayStar

2,096 posts

81 months

Thursday 10th January
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
HighwayStar said:
sparta6 said:
37chevy said:
sparta6 said:
I'm not expecting much of a title challenge from Ferrari this season. I wouldn't be surprised if Renault got close to them in points.
I’d love to hear your reasoning behind this opinion....what leads you to believe that Ferrari will drop that far back?
I'm expecting Renault to close the gap on Ferrari. Ferrari has a new boss, new young driver unexperienced in a top team, lots of new moving parts.
Unless Vettel can nail it out of the starting gates I don't see much of a threat for the WDC.
Sparta, you are so wide the mark here. The 'new boss' was formerly the chief technical officer under Arrivabene. An engineer.

"Binotto first joined Ferrari in 1995, originally as a test engine engineer – and then performed a similar role for the race team from 1997 to 2003.

After a spell as a race engine engineer, and chief engineer, he became head of engine and KERS in 2009 – before stepping up to chief operating officer of the power unit at the end of 2014.'

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/binotto-replace...

Arrivabene... they won't even notice he's gone.

As for Renault closing the gap to Ferrari... Honestly, I hope they do, they are claiming big gains in the engine and wind tunnel but.... Mercedes and Ferrari are a moving target, they will have been burning the midnight oil and riding the wild software too. Renault could turn up in Oz a few 10ths closer or just as far back.


Edited by HighwayStar on Thursday 10th January 15:55
Being a technical chief is very different psychologically from being the actual Boss. No doubting Binotto's talent but some can hack the National, Media and Political pressure, others cannot, time will tell. I hope he can.

With Renault, they have a master manipulator and politician in Prost, so I would not rule anything out.
Prost is special adviser... what’s he going to do, lay his hands on the engine and summon the additional cheveau required to hit the front?
As I said I hope Renault get closer and the noises coming out of the team prove to be true but snapping at Ferrari’s gearbox this season would be serious progress.
Re Binotto, yes, being boss is different but he’s been there 23yrs, knows the team and is respected. I just don’t see Ferrari suddenly falling away. LeClerc will be fine, listen to his beyond the grid podcast. I’m not saying he’ll blow everyone or Seb away but I believe he’ll get off to a solid start. We’ll see after 4 races where he and the team are.

sparta6

1,110 posts

37 months

Thursday 10th January
quotequote all
HighwayStar said:
sparta6 said:
HighwayStar said:
sparta6 said:
37chevy said:
sparta6 said:
I'm not expecting much of a title challenge from Ferrari this season. I wouldn't be surprised if Renault got close to them in points.
I’d love to hear your reasoning behind this opinion....what leads you to believe that Ferrari will drop that far back?
I'm expecting Renault to close the gap on Ferrari. Ferrari has a new boss, new young driver unexperienced in a top team, lots of new moving parts.
Unless Vettel can nail it out of the starting gates I don't see much of a threat for the WDC.
Sparta, you are so wide the mark here. The 'new boss' was formerly the chief technical officer under Arrivabene. An engineer.

"Binotto first joined Ferrari in 1995, originally as a test engine engineer – and then performed a similar role for the race team from 1997 to 2003.

After a spell as a race engine engineer, and chief engineer, he became head of engine and KERS in 2009 – before stepping up to chief operating officer of the power unit at the end of 2014.'

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/binotto-replace...

Arrivabene... they won't even notice he's gone.

As for Renault closing the gap to Ferrari... Honestly, I hope they do, they are claiming big gains in the engine and wind tunnel but.... Mercedes and Ferrari are a moving target, they will have been burning the midnight oil and riding the wild software too. Renault could turn up in Oz a few 10ths closer or just as far back.


Edited by HighwayStar on Thursday 10th January 15:55
Being a technical chief is very different psychologically from being the actual Boss. No doubting Binotto's talent but some can hack the National, Media and Political pressure, others cannot, time will tell. I hope he can.

With Renault, they have a master manipulator and politician in Prost, so I would not rule anything out.
Prost is special adviser... what’s he going to do, lay his hands on the engine and summon the additional cheveau required to hit the front?
As I said I hope Renault get closer and the noises coming out of the team prove to be true but snapping at Ferrari’s gearbox this season would be serious progress.
Re Binotto, yes, being boss is different but he’s been there 23yrs, knows the team and is respected. I just don’t see Ferrari suddenly falling away. LeClerc will be fine, listen to his beyond the grid podcast. I’m not saying he’ll blow everyone or Seb away but I believe he’ll get off to a solid start. We’ll see after 4 races where he and the team are.
I agree with the possibilities of Ferrari, but just don't see it in Yr 1 of new boy and new boss. I hope they can put up a decent fight though.

Prost was also just a driver, but let's not forget some of the sneaky politics he played with the FIA. We should never underestimate his reach. Vive la French International Assistance !

37chevy

2,199 posts

93 months

Thursday 10th January
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
Being a technical chief is very different psychologically from being the actual Boss. No doubting Binotto's talent but some can hack the National, Media and Political pressure, others cannot, time will tell. I hope he can.
Wasn’t Brawn a technical chief before becoming boss?

HighwayStar

2,096 posts

81 months

Thursday 10th January
quotequote all
37chevy said:
sparta6 said:
Being a technical chief is very different psychologically from being the actual Boss. No doubting Binotto's talent but some can hack the National, Media and Political pressure, others cannot, time will tell. I hope he can.
Wasn’t Brawn a technical chief before becoming boss?
Exactly... Arrivabene came from their long time main sponsor, Marlborough. Brawn came from within F1, he knew how departments worked and how a car goes from the screen to a the track.
No one is saying Ferrari will he 3/10ths faster than Merc with boss Binotto but the wheels aren’t going to suddenly come off either.
He would’ve been CTO until what, a week ago. He over saw last years car and will have done with this years car... it’s basically the same team without Arrivabene stinking out the place...
I don’t really see how Sparta can’t see that.

sparta6

1,110 posts

37 months

Thursday 10th January
quotequote all
37chevy said:
sparta6 said:
Being a technical chief is very different psychologically from being the actual Boss. No doubting Binotto's talent but some can hack the National, Media and Political pressure, others cannot, time will tell. I hope he can.
Wasn’t Brawn a technical chief before becoming boss?
He sure was. Cool as a cucumber is Brawn smile

p1stonhead

17,566 posts

104 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
Gary C said:
Deesee said:
lbc said:
Bottas and Vettel will be gone next year if the don't perform.
Bottas lost a personal sponsor this week (that he’s had since 12 yrs old) that partially pays/supplements his salary.

Needs a fast winning start IMO.
Bottas, yes, Vettel, no, not yet, still got enough capital.
Surely a x4 WDC never runs out of capital?!

Dermot O'Logical

564 posts

66 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
HighwayStar said:
Exactly... Arrivabene came from their long time main sponsor, Marlborough. Brawn came from within F1, he knew how departments worked and how a car goes from the screen to a the track.
No one is saying Ferrari will he 3/10ths faster than Merc with boss Binotto but the wheels aren’t going to suddenly come off either.
He would’ve been CTO until what, a week ago. He over saw last years car and will have done with this years car... it’s basically the same team without Arrivabene stinking out the place...
I don’t really see how Sparta can’t see that.
The biggest problem facing Binotto is the Italian press. Unless he can get (and keep) them onside life as Team Principal will be very uncomfortable.

Ross Brawn was part of the "Dream Team" alongside Schumacher and Jean Todt, with Luca di Montezemelo pulling the strings on behalf of the Agnelli dynasty, which wielded almost Mafia-esque power in those days. He's undoubtedly talented, and in recent years has become regarded as the wisest owl in the paddock, but he didn't have to manage the team on his own.

John Elkann is Gianni Agnelli's grandson, and the chosen heir to the family businesses. He may have the ability and authority to keep the press onside, but the changes within Ferrari may need a season to bed down and provide a consistent challenge to Mercedes and Hamilton.

HighwayStar

2,096 posts

81 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
Dermot O'Logical said:
HighwayStar said:
Exactly... Arrivabene came from their long time main sponsor, Marlborough. Brawn came from within F1, he knew how departments worked and how a car goes from the screen to a the track.
No one is saying Ferrari will he 3/10ths faster than Merc with boss Binotto but the wheels aren’t going to suddenly come off either.
He would’ve been CTO until what, a week ago. He over saw last years car and will have done with this years car... it’s basically the same team without Arrivabene stinking out the place...
I don’t really see how Sparta can’t see that.
The biggest problem facing Binotto is the Italian press. Unless he can get (and keep) them onside life as Team Principal will be very uncomfortable.

Ross Brawn was part of the "Dream Team" alongside Schumacher and Jean Todt, with Luca di Montezemelo pulling the strings on behalf of the Agnelli dynasty, which wielded almost Mafia-esque power in those days. He's undoubtedly talented, and in recent years has become regarded as the wisest owl in the paddock, but he didn't have to manage the team on his own.

John Elkann is Gianni Agnelli's grandson, and the chosen heir to the family businesses. He may have the ability and authority to keep the press onside, but the changes within Ferrari may need a season to bed down and provide a consistent challenge to Mercedes and Hamilton.
Totally agree... my main point is I don’t see Ferrari falling away and scrapping for 3rd/4th place this season and not being in the conversation for a title even if ultimately they don’t win it.

37chevy

2,199 posts

93 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
Dermot O'Logical said:
The biggest problem facing Binotto is the Italian press. Unless he can get (and keep) them onside life as Team Principal will be very uncomfortable.

Ross Brawn was part of the "Dream Team" alongside Schumacher and Jean Todt, with Luca di Montezemelo pulling the strings on behalf of the Agnelli dynasty, which wielded almost Mafia-esque power in those days. He's undoubtedly talented, and in recent years has become regarded as the wisest owl in the paddock, but he didn't have to manage the team on his own.

John Elkann is Gianni Agnelli's grandson, and the chosen heir to the family businesses. He may have the ability and authority to keep the press onside, but the changes within Ferrari may need a season to bed down and provide a consistent challenge to Mercedes and Hamilton.
cant disagree with any of this tbf

Dermot O'Logical

564 posts

66 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
HighwayStar said:
Dermot O'Logical said:
HighwayStar said:
Exactly... Arrivabene came from their long time main sponsor, Marlborough. Brawn came from within F1, he knew how departments worked and how a car goes from the screen to a the track.
No one is saying Ferrari will he 3/10ths faster than Merc with boss Binotto but the wheels aren’t going to suddenly come off either.
He would’ve been CTO until what, a week ago. He over saw last years car and will have done with this years car... it’s basically the same team without Arrivabene stinking out the place...
I don’t really see how Sparta can’t see that.
The biggest problem facing Binotto is the Italian press. Unless he can get (and keep) them onside life as Team Principal will be very uncomfortable.

Ross Brawn was part of the "Dream Team" alongside Schumacher and Jean Todt, with Luca di Montezemelo pulling the strings on behalf of the Agnelli dynasty, which wielded almost Mafia-esque power in those days. He's undoubtedly talented, and in recent years has become regarded as the wisest owl in the paddock, but he didn't have to manage the team on his own.

John Elkann is Gianni Agnelli's grandson, and the chosen heir to the family businesses. He may have the ability and authority to keep the press onside, but the changes within Ferrari may need a season to bed down and provide a consistent challenge to Mercedes and Hamilton.
Totally agree... my main point is I don’t see Ferrari falling away and scrapping for 3rd/4th place this season and not being in the conversation for a title even if ultimately they don’t win it.
The other issue facing Ferrari is to 2021-onwards Concorde Agreement. They need to be at the top table, and to do that they need the credibility of not only being a key engine supplier, but a front-running team.

Man-At-Arms

5,277 posts

116 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
lbc said:
Deesee said:
lbc said:
Bottas and Vettel will be gone next year if they don't perform.
Bottas lost a personal sponsor this week (that he’s had since 12 yrs old) that partially pays/supplements his salary.

Needs a fast winning start IMO.
Toto Wolf has said Bottas needs to be winning races on par with Hamilton this season in order to keep his seat.
that's a bit unfair, as Bottas was going to win Sochi. But was told by Toto to let Lewis win !

HighwayStar

2,096 posts

81 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
Dermot O'Logical said:
HighwayStar said:
Dermot O'Logical said:
HighwayStar said:
Exactly... Arrivabene came from their long time main sponsor, Marlborough. Brawn came from within F1, he knew how departments worked and how a car goes from the screen to a the track.
No one is saying Ferrari will he 3/10ths faster than Merc with boss Binotto but the wheels aren’t going to suddenly come off either.
He would’ve been CTO until what, a week ago. He over saw last years car and will have done with this years car... it’s basically the same team without Arrivabene stinking out the place...
I don’t really see how Sparta can’t see that.
The biggest problem facing Binotto is the Italian press. Unless he can get (and keep) them onside life as Team Principal will be very uncomfortable.

Ross Brawn was part of the "Dream Team" alongside Schumacher and Jean Todt, with Luca di Montezemelo pulling the strings on behalf of the Agnelli dynasty, which wielded almost Mafia-esque power in those days. He's undoubtedly talented, and in recent years has become regarded as the wisest owl in the paddock, but he didn't have to manage the team on his own.

John Elkann is Gianni Agnelli's grandson, and the chosen heir to the family businesses. He may have the ability and authority to keep the press onside, but the changes within Ferrari may need a season to bed down and provide a consistent challenge to Mercedes and Hamilton.
Totally agree... my main point is I don’t see Ferrari falling away and scrapping for 3rd/4th place this season and not being in the conversation for a title even if ultimately they don’t win it.
The other issue facing Ferrari is to 2021-onwards Concorde Agreement. They need to be at the top table, and to do that they need the credibility of not only being a key engine supplier, but a front-running team.
Good point but... there’s no guarantee of any teams standing either. Look at Williams and Mclaren, cautionary tales right there. RedBull if Honda Honda is still fragile... RedBull are still seen as a front-running team though, just short of an engine.
Ferrari had uncle Bernie’s ear and kissed the ring when he was the Godfather. Now Liberty Media are at the head of the table they’re talking about fairer distribution of money amongst the teams and making the sport cheaper. Ferrari got a lot of respect, £60m more than any other team under Bernie’s reign. It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out with the new owners. If Merc and Lewis have taken all the trophies Merc will have a huge say.
I just hope there are more teams fighting for the podium this season.

tight fart

1,141 posts

210 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
Not sure why people are convinced that Liberty will be any more open honest and fair than Bernie was.
From what I here its unlikely.

HighwayStar

2,096 posts

81 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
tight fart said:
Not sure why people are convinced that Liberty will be any more open honest and fair than Bernie was.
From what I here its unlikely.
Who is convinced. Liberty have said how they would like to do things, we’ll see how it plays out. I love F1 but I’m not a fan of Ferrari’s if we don’t get what we want we’re off. Now they are supplying 2 teams as well they are more entrenched so no doubt they’ll be pushing to bend things to their will.

rdjohn

3,088 posts

132 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
tight fart said:
Not sure why people are convinced that Liberty will be any more open honest and fair than Bernie was.
From what I here its unlikely.
Not sure what makes you think that.

F1 is their train set and they take a huge profit but the very strong impression that they create is that slowly, but surely, they will change the series to their liking. The key issue is taking the teams along with their aspirations, but in the fullness of time, I believe that they will get there.

Bernie shot from the hip - Liberty play the long-game to achieve the results they (and most of us fans) want.

Remember the title of Ross Brawn’s book - Total Competition: Lessons in Strategy from Formula One