Lewis Hamilton

[HighwayStar]

Torquey said:

I didn't catch much of Goodwood this weekend but am I right thinking that Bottas was there driving the Mercedes? And Hamilton was too busy to make another UK appearance?

Lol... oh no! Reaaally... ffs

[thepawbroon]

Can we talk about records?

And how likely do we think Lewis Hamilton is to take the following:

Most Wins (91 - M.Schumacher) - I would think Lewis will surpass this by Race 6-8 in 2020.
Most Championships (7 - M.Schumacher) - I would think that Lewis will equal this in 2020, but after that???
Most Wins in a Season (13 - M.Schumacher / S.Vettel) - I think 2019 is Lewis's only chance of surpassing that, but he is on track (just).
Most Poles in a Season (15 - S.Vettel) - I don't think Lewis will ever take this, certainly not while he retains a good team mate of Bottas' ilk.

I reckon he's going to win 7 more races this year, so he'll then be on 87 wins and 6 WDCs.

Your thoughts please?
PS - the record that he already holds are here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Hamilton#Recor...

[zygalski]

Hamilton's luck will run out soon.

[Bo_apex]

zygalski said:

Hamilton's luck will run out soon.

Or Mercedes will cough and splutter. Or maybe not !

[Bo_apex]

thepawbroon said:

Most Championships (7 - M.Schumacher) - I would think that Lewis will equal this in 2020, but after that???

Listening to Ross Brawn's podcast is illuminating.

The FIA intervened in Schumacher's continued success by switching the tyre regs to suit Michelin runners.
Alonso capitalized nicely.
Schumacher was on course for 10 x WDC's without said intervention

[thepawbroon]

Bo_apex said:

Listening to Ross Brawn's podcast is illuminating.

The FIA intervened in Schumacher's continued success by switching the tyre regs to suit Michelin runners.
Alonso capitalized nicely.
Schumacher was on course for 10 x WDC's without said intervention

Is that the Beyond the Grid podcast?

Re: FIA Intervention - I suppose one difference is that, certainly from my viewpoint, the races and seasons are not as dull and predictable as they were back in the Schumacher/Ferrari days. The "show" is actually very good.

[andyps]

Bo_apex said:

Listening to Ross Brawn's podcast is illuminating.

The FIA intervened in Schumacher's continued success by switching the tyre regs to suit Michelin runners.
Alonso capitalized nicely.
Schumacher was on course for 10 x WDC's without said intervention

Which podcast is that?

[768]

There's a recent Beyond the Grid with Ross Brawn on Brawn GP here but I think it's a reference to an older one on Michael Schumacher here.

[kiseca]

Bo_apex said:

thepawbroon said:

Most Championships (7 - M.Schumacher) - I would think that Lewis will equal this in 2020, but after that???

Listening to Ross Brawn's podcast is illuminating.

The FIA intervened in Schumacher's continued success by switching the tyre regs to suit Michelin runners.
Alonso capitalized nicely.
Schumacher was on course for 10 x WDC's without said intervention

He was capable of 10, definitely... He had a great chance in 1999 but for the broken leg. He could well have cleaned up in 96 and 97 if he hadn't moved to Ferrari, and had a completely different record.

But for all that, his 5 in a row was unprecedented and is still unmatched. It's a team sport and a lot of things have to be in the right place for the champion to happen. Not saying it's luck as such, one of the things that has to be right is the driver, of course, who has to be ready for the opportunity when it arises.

You could also say the lack of testing permitted, and the weird degrading tyres in use in the early Pirelli era both contributed to Schumachers lacklustre comeback, as they nullified two of his biggest strengths.

All sorts of changes in the rules have made the difference in who was champion... the best 11 races rule in 1988 made Senna champion despite Prost scoring more points. Graham Hill lost a championship to John Surtees because of the best results count rule too.

Then there's the changes to the points scored per place. I'm sure if you took any particular scoring system and applied it to all the championships through history you'd pick up a handful of changes to who won the championship every time.

In the end it doesn't matter. Schumacher won 7 and that will never change. It was a good run, he had good fortune in that the rest of his team was dominant for almost as long as he was so he had a wealth of opportunities, and he took them well.

If Lewis continues to be in a team which also are able to provide opportunities to win championships, and has a team mate unable to beat him to those opportunities, then he can get 8.... but that's still 3 championships away. Maybe 2.5 away right now. It wasn't that long ago that 3 championships in a whole career was a fine tally. Until Vettel, there were only 3 drivers who had won at least 4, that's Fangio, Prost, and Schumacher. Three names consistently debated as all time greats.

If he doesn't do it, if he doesn't get 8, I still think he's already done enough to join that debate.

[tankplanker]

kiseca said:

But for all that, his 5 in a row was unprecedented and is still unmatched. It's a team sport and a lot of things have to be in the right place for the champion to happen. Not saying it's luck as such, one of the things that has to be right is the driver, of course, who has to be ready for the opportunity when it arises.

While Micheal deserves a huge amount of credit for those 5 WDCs if he had team mate who wasn't a number 2 driver expected to move over and instead had a quality driver who could be faster on some circuits could he still have 5 titles? If Nico had been a contracted number 2 driver expected to move over all the time, Lewis would be closing in on 5 in a row this year. I'm glad Nico wasn't, it would have been very boring otherwise.

[Vaud]

tankplanker said:

hile Micheal deserves a huge amount of credit for those 5 WDCs if he had team mate who wasn't a number 2 driver expected to move over and instead had a quality driver who could be faster on some circuits could he still have 5 titles? If Nico had been a contracted number 2 driver expected to move over all the time, Lewis would be closing in on 5 in a row this year. I'm glad Nico wasn't, it would have been very boring otherwise.

Ifs, maybes...

[kiseca]

tankplanker said:

kiseca said:

But for all that, his 5 in a row was unprecedented and is still unmatched. It's a team sport and a lot of things have to be in the right place for the champion to happen. Not saying it's luck as such, one of the things that has to be right is the driver, of course, who has to be ready for the opportunity when it arises.

While Micheal deserves a huge amount of credit for those 5 WDCs if he had team mate who wasn't a number 2 driver expected to move over and instead had a quality driver who could be faster on some circuits could he still have 5 titles? If Nico had been a contracted number 2 driver expected to move over all the time, Lewis would be closing in on 5 in a row this year. I'm glad Nico wasn't, it would have been very boring otherwise.

If there was a driver available who could consistently beat Schumacher, then IMO Ferrari would have used that driver instead of (as opposed to alongside) Schumacher. If any of his team mates ever showed that they were a better bet for the championship than Schumacher, I believe Ferrari would have backed them instead. However, they had a mountain to climb to prove that.

[zebra]

zygalski said:

Hamilton's luck will run out soon.

He’ll just have to rely on his incredible driving talent then.

[anonymous-user]

zygalski said:

Hamilton's luck will run out soon.

Not sure if serious!

[paulguitar]

zygalski said:

Hamilton's luck will run out soon.

Yeah, he seems to have been amazingly lucky ever since Cadet Karts, aged 8.

[768]

paulguitar said:

Yeah, he seems to have been amazingly lucky ever since Cadet Karts, aged 8.

It must be due to run out any minute now.

[paulguitar]

768 said:

paulguitar said:

Yeah, he seems to have been amazingly lucky ever since Cadet Karts, aged 8.

It must be due to run out any minute now.

Any second now, I reckon.

[playalistic]

“The more I practice, the luckier I get”

[Chris Stott]

Personally, I think Lewis is already the best in the modern era (last 50 years).

He combines the incredible single lap pace of someone like Senna, the mistake free race craft of someone like Prost, but none of the ‘shenanigans’ that Schumacher sometimes resorted to.

Doesn’t matter for me if he gets to 7 or 8 championships (though most likely he will in due course), he’s the most complete driver of my lifetime.

[tankplanker]

Vaud said:

Ifs, maybes...

I don't think there is a single may be that Lewis would have 4 titles on the trot if Nico had been a number 2 driver, nobody else was anywhere near Merc that season. I don't think its a may be that Rubens moved over for Micheal several times during a race to gift Micheal extra points. 2003 stands out, a better second driver treated as an equal could have taken 3 points off Micheal and cost him the title that year. I believe Micheal would not have won that year without a number 2 driver.

Its important because Micheal's 5 in a row is only possible because he had the entire team on his side, including the other driver. Lewis has not had that, its not a like for like comparison.

kiseca said:

If there was a driver available who could consistently beat Schumacher, then IMO Ferrari would have used that driver instead of (as opposed to alongside) Schumacher. If any of his team mates ever showed that they were a better bet for the championship than Schumacher, I believe Ferrari would have backed them instead. However, they had a mountain to climb to prove that.

He was replaced in the end (in a shameful fashion), so I agree if they thought somebody better was available they would have signed him. However I'm not talking about an out and out world beater here, even Rubins was faster at times than Micheal, but was never allowed to hold onto the position while the title was still on the line. A better driver than Rubins but not clearly better than Micheal were available, one who would have taken significant points of Micheal.

Edited by tankplanker on Wednesday 17th July 17:44