Lewis Hamilton
Discussion
TobyTR said:
That one extra engine failure over Rosberg masked his other mistakes that year, to be fair.
It's impossible to tell if he has improved over 2016, because he hasn't been pushed like that since - that's when we see the weaknesses and demons come out.
These quotes from Jenson Button sum it up for me: "Michael was and still is the blueprint for the complete F1 driver." and
"There are days when Lewis would just do something amazing, but there were other days when you got everything right and you'd wonder where he'd gone..." and we still see that with Hamilton this year. The odd weekend he goes walk-about, but he can currently get away with it because of the car.
Statistically, this year's Mercedes is more dominant than Ferrari's F2004, and the Ferrari had more competition that year. And yet M.Schumacher still won the first 5 races in a row, one retirement, then won the next 7 races in a row, followed by two 2nd places. = WDC sewn up. - like him or not as a person, that is what makes a complete F1 driver.
Hakinen also summed it up well, "I think my 100% was a tiny bit quicker than Michael's, but he was at least 98% at every single race, year after year."
It wasn't just the Malaysian failure that year though was it? It's impossible to tell if he has improved over 2016, because he hasn't been pushed like that since - that's when we see the weaknesses and demons come out.
These quotes from Jenson Button sum it up for me: "Michael was and still is the blueprint for the complete F1 driver." and
"There are days when Lewis would just do something amazing, but there were other days when you got everything right and you'd wonder where he'd gone..." and we still see that with Hamilton this year. The odd weekend he goes walk-about, but he can currently get away with it because of the car.
Statistically, this year's Mercedes is more dominant than Ferrari's F2004, and the Ferrari had more competition that year. And yet M.Schumacher still won the first 5 races in a row, one retirement, then won the next 7 races in a row, followed by two 2nd places. = WDC sewn up. - like him or not as a person, that is what makes a complete F1 driver.
Hakinen also summed it up well, "I think my 100% was a tiny bit quicker than Michael's, but he was at least 98% at every single race, year after year."
Edited by TobyTR on Monday 22 July 00:53
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24181/10604387/f...
I don't think there were an exceptional number of mistakes either but he went missing in Baku and Singapore.
Hamilton had 12 poles, Rosberg eight. Hie average qualifying advantage was 0.14secs. In races where they were able to compete, Lewis won 11 Rosberg 6.
Reliability is part of F1 and it wasn't perfect by any measure but a long way from it being attributable to Lewis Demons.
Edited by Graveworm on Monday 22 July 05:49
TobyTR said:
2016 wasn't that long ago... a complete F1 driver (like M.Schumacher) would not have lost to Rosberg that year, period. He was rattled and made a few mistakes that year
He's got very few weaknesses, but he's not the complete F1 driver like we've seen in the past. He has been rattled when up against other supreme F1 drivers
All the greats have lost against their teammates. Senna lost to Prost, vice versa, mansell lost to his teammates as did piquet, Schumacher lost to his teammates....the list goes on.He's got very few weaknesses, but he's not the complete F1 driver like we've seen in the past. He has been rattled when up against other supreme F1 drivers
Schumacher complete? If he was that complete he wouldn’t have needed number 1status with a subservient teammate
paulguitar said:
I think he has significantly improved since 2016. Plus, he still would have won the title that year save for an engine failure.
In my view, he has already far surpassed the achievements of M Schumacher, on the grounds of never having had or asked for number one status at any time, and more importantly, not regularly having a total character failure on track.
I've got a lot of enjoyment with seeing Hamilton improve as the years tick on. As he should, of course.In my view, he has already far surpassed the achievements of M Schumacher, on the grounds of never having had or asked for number one status at any time, and more importantly, not regularly having a total character failure on track.
He used to seem poor at tyre management. Now he puts in his fastest laps on the slowest tyres at the end of a race. He now goes for overtakes where he stands a good chance of making it without too much damage. It's a shame, but it is an improvement. His tactics have improved. Last season he started from 15th (I think) but took care in the opening laps when passing backmarkers. There seems to be no feeling of, 'I'm the WDC leader, they must let me go'.
He's turned into the complete driver. The downside is that he now rarely shows his exciting side. He won't challenge for the lead if the risks outweigh the benefits. I miss the old 'go for it in any case' attitude, but he's a better driver for it.
The young bloods will provide that for us while LH plays the percentage game and racks up more world titles.
MS was in the main totally supported by his team at the expense of his team mate, nowt wrong with that but not the case at MB or at least not to the same degree.
Also LH hasn’t won at ‘any price’ (read cheat).
MS was in the main totally supported by his team at the expense of his team mate, nowt wrong with that but not the case at MB or at least not to the same degree.
Also LH hasn’t won at ‘any price’ (read cheat).
because we're living through it we see his journey with all his development and faults.
2016 was more than a DNF, Rosberg mounted a campaign (started previous season) and executed. LH learned from that and does appear to be a more complete campaigner now (he always was a racer). in the future, i think history will reflect on his later completeness that we're seeing now. i hope he manages his retirement better than MS too.
2016 was more than a DNF, Rosberg mounted a campaign (started previous season) and executed. LH learned from that and does appear to be a more complete campaigner now (he always was a racer). in the future, i think history will reflect on his later completeness that we're seeing now. i hope he manages his retirement better than MS too.
Budweiser said:
The young bloods will provide that for us while LH plays the percentage game and racks up more world titles.
MS was in the main totally supported by his team at the expense of his team mate, nowt wrong with that but not the case at MB or at least not to the same degree.
Also LH hasn’t won at ‘any price’ (read cheat).
I agree. Lewis is about as good as it gets in terms of being an all round talented and consistent driver. The fact that history shows MS winning even more frequently isn't down to extra talent imo, rather some questionable tactics and favouritism.MS was in the main totally supported by his team at the expense of his team mate, nowt wrong with that but not the case at MB or at least not to the same degree.
Also LH hasn’t won at ‘any price’ (read cheat).
Graveworm said:
REALIST123 said:
But he has cheated.
"We recognise Lewis's efforts to set the record straight," said an FIA spokesman. "It would appear he was put in an impossible position."Contrast that with M Schumacher who was consistently committing dodgy deeds right up to the end of his career when he attempted to mince Rubens along the pit wall.
That's a big part of the reason Shuey could not be considered, in my opinion, a match for Hamilton.
Mika and McLaren were formidable competition for Michael.
And then a few years later the FIA decided to stop Michael's dominance by abruptly changing tyre regs to suit Michelin teams. Nice for Alonso.
Contrast that to the tyre compound preference of Mercedes being granted last year, the FIA has virtually guaranteed their dominance until 2021.
Forget Pirelli, the FIA has gone soft
And then a few years later the FIA decided to stop Michael's dominance by abruptly changing tyre regs to suit Michelin teams. Nice for Alonso.
Contrast that to the tyre compound preference of Mercedes being granted last year, the FIA has virtually guaranteed their dominance until 2021.
Forget Pirelli, the FIA has gone soft
sparta6 said:
Mika and McLaren were formidable competition for Michael.
And then a few years later the FIA decided to stop Michael's dominance by abruptly changing tyre regs to suit Michelin teams. Nice for Alonso.
Contrast that to the tyre compound preference of Mercedes being granted last year, the FIA has virtually guaranteed their dominance until 2021.
Forget Pirelli, the FIA has gone soft
Only a few weeks ago the majority of the teams voted to not revert to last year's rubber thickness. If they wanted to do it neither the FIA or Mercedes would have been able to stop them.And then a few years later the FIA decided to stop Michael's dominance by abruptly changing tyre regs to suit Michelin teams. Nice for Alonso.
Contrast that to the tyre compound preference of Mercedes being granted last year, the FIA has virtually guaranteed their dominance until 2021.
Forget Pirelli, the FIA has gone soft
TobyTR said:
2016 wasn't that long ago... a complete F1 driver (like M.Schumacher) would not have lost to Rosberg that year, period. He was rattled and made a few mistakes that year
you do realise Micheal & Nico were in the same team & identical machinery at one point, yeah?No preferential treatment, no No.1 status, no bespoke tyres, no unlimited testing & up against a driver who would subsequently become a WDC (the ONLY time he's gone up against a WDC or future WDC) ...& he got absolutely spanked
& don't give me that crap about not the same driver as he once was, he got a Monaco pole & would've won Canada if the track hadn't dried out (which would've equaled Nico's achievements at that time)
but you carry on with Schrödinger's Rosberg
Edited by angrymoby on Monday 22 July 11:33
Mr Pointy said:
sparta6 said:
Mika and McLaren were formidable competition for Michael.
And then a few years later the FIA decided to stop Michael's dominance by abruptly changing tyre regs to suit Michelin teams. Nice for Alonso.
Contrast that to the tyre compound preference of Mercedes being granted last year, the FIA has virtually guaranteed their dominance until 2021.
Forget Pirelli, the FIA has gone soft
Only a few weeks ago the majority of the teams voted to not revert to last year's rubber thickness. If they wanted to do it neither the FIA or Mercedes would have been able to stop them.And then a few years later the FIA decided to stop Michael's dominance by abruptly changing tyre regs to suit Michelin teams. Nice for Alonso.
Contrast that to the tyre compound preference of Mercedes being granted last year, the FIA has virtually guaranteed their dominance until 2021.
Forget Pirelli, the FIA has gone soft
Shame the vote didn't happen last season
Vaud said:
I think that was partly Schumacher, partly the team direction/ethos at the time, especially to secure the first title.
Very different era with tyre wars, reliability issues etc.Titles had been won and lost on inter team battles (1987 being a great example).
Even in their most dominant years, Ferrari were never as dominant as this Mercedes era.
With near 100% reliability, you may not need to stipulate No.1 status in the same way... but you can guarantee Mercedes would pull rank on Bottas if Lewis was under threat from Max and Seb.
Poppiecock said:
Very different era with tyre wars, reliability issues etc.
Titles had been won and lost on inter team battles (1987 being a great example).
Even in their most dominant years, Ferrari were never as dominant as this Mercedes era.
With near 100% reliability, you may not need to stipulate No.1 status in the same way... but you can guarantee Mercedes would pull rank on Bottas if Lewis was under threat from Max and Seb.
I think they would pull rank, but only if not doing so could significantly reduce chances of either of their drivers getting a WDC, or them as a team getting the WCC. In fact, I can't recall a time they have asked Bottas to do anything that would favour Lewis unless it's either protected of safely sewn up a title. Which is fair enough, it's a team sport. Bottas should (in theory...) want to let Lewis through if doing so secures a second championship title for his team that season.Titles had been won and lost on inter team battles (1987 being a great example).
Even in their most dominant years, Ferrari were never as dominant as this Mercedes era.
With near 100% reliability, you may not need to stipulate No.1 status in the same way... but you can guarantee Mercedes would pull rank on Bottas if Lewis was under threat from Max and Seb.
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