Lewis Hamilton
Discussion
TheDeuce said:
RemarkLima said:
I think it's generally you get a hard time from the meat eaters and hence spend a lot of time trying to explain your position... Years of being a vegetarian is a pain when you just want to get on with your life without having to explain your choices about food!
Same as people blocking electric car chargers... Just the establishlished norm bucking against change maybe?
I have no reaction to Vegetarians/Vegans until they state that something like a cottage pie is 'just as good' if it doesn't contain meat. Which is nonsense - a cottage pie is a recipe arrived at based upon a combination of ingredients. If those ingredients didn't contain meat, then a recipe just as good could be arrived at, but it wouldn't be the same recipe. The ingredients have to lead to the creation of a classic dish - you can't reverse engineer the same dish and swap out the key elements. That is not craftsmanship, that is substitution, compromise.Same as people blocking electric car chargers... Just the establishlished norm bucking against change maybe?
When looking at vegetarian ingredients, I celebrate dishes such as nut roast stuffed marrow, delicious! Everything from texture to taste to presentation in such a dish is a perfect celebration of vegetarian food.
A facsimile dish however is compromised by nature. The potato topping on a veggie cottage pie can never be as wonderful if it's meat free - the fats in the meat won't rise and combine with the potato topping and give it a fondant finish - because there is no meat, no fat. If there hadn't been a meat cottage pie in the first place, I doubt very much a vegetarian chef would have decided such a dish was the ideal use for veg.
I eat a lot of veggie food, I have to - at photo-shoots I work on these days there is frequently no meat, and most stuff is vegan. I love proper food and that doesn't require meat. It does require passion though. Passion creates... it doesn't need to copy.
The most successful vegetarian and vegan restaurants are celebrated, they are impressive. But you won't find facsimile dishes on offer. Highly processed veggie meat substitutes will never be the cornerstone of a meat-free revolution. If you wanna cook with veg, it has to be done with as much passion and care as those of us would garner on cooking the perfect steak. Real, basic ingredients handled properly and bought together to make a dish that relies upon it's ingredients and the combination of those ingredients. Not a dish that relies upon some similarity to the dish you really want to eat if you didn't feel guilty about it.
But I agree with you that some vegan / vege food is brilliant in its own right.
vdn said:
Fair points to some extent... but there are things, like Quorn mince,that taste great and can act as a substitute dish for most people.
But I agree with you that some vegan / vege food is brilliant in its own right.
I just think that the dishes we all know and love, we know and love for a reason. Because they are the perfect coming together of a set of ingredients.But I agree with you that some vegan / vege food is brilliant in its own right.
The fact of the matter is, that from a cooking pov, quorn mince behaves differently and has a different contribution to the end result. That's not to say it can't contribute to a great dish, providing you're OK with heavily processed food, but it can't ever be a direct replacement for what meat mince delivers to classic dishes. There is so much more interaction in the cooking process than a single ingredient that has been engineered to mimic the taste and texture of another.
I also have to agree with you in the end though for 'most people' that use Quorn, I do believe it's a good enough substitute for them. I think in the end, serious foodie's avoid facsimile ingredients, especially if heavily processed regardless of whether or not they eat meat. But a lot of people simply are not so food focused, and as a result are perfectly happy to switch and swap without creating anything new with what they have to hand. I respect that also.
TheDeuce said:
The fact of the matter is, that from a cooking pov, quorn mince behaves differently and has a different contribution to the end result.
The irony here is that vegans / vegetarians often talk about clean eating. Quorn is must less 'clean' than a minced beef / lamb / pork / chicken / turkey. It's full of all kinds of weird additives in order to make it mimic meat.TheDeuce said:
A facsimile dish however is compromised by nature.
I hate myself for further polluting the LH thread with my opinions of food, but this I agree with completely. A chicken/bacon hunter sandwich with barbecue sauce will never be beaten by a vegetable substitute, but if Pav Bhaji were the only food in the world and someone suggested adding bacon, it would be sacrilege.Poppiecock said:
The irony here is that vegans / vegetarians often talk about clean eating. Quorn is must less 'clean' than a minced beef / lamb / pork / chicken / turkey. It's full of all kinds of weird additives in order to make it mimic meat.
Just in general, avoid processed food. Partly because there is an environmental and health cost etc, but mostly because... What sort of fool cooks with ingredients already processed!? If you're not in control of the process from start to finish then their is no joy or satisfaction - cooking becomes a chore, not a passion. The end result will never truly be your own, and that feeds in to everything from how people respect your views on food, to how your kids react when they first break free and discover a world that has McDonalds in it.If you really care about what you and others eat, take it seriously. Taking it seriously so obviously doesn't start with digging around in the freezer for an orange labelled packet of processed food. If 50 years ago McDonald's had wanted to make a chain of veggie restaurants, the first thing they would have done was create a Quorn equivalent.
paua said:
You people are all in the WRONG thread, this one is an F1 thread.
Bugger off
I do agree, despite having polluted this (already slightly polluted) thread myself.Bugger off
On the other hand, people with strange ideas appear to have broken through the PH town walls and should be dealt with before this gets out of hand
I wouldn't worry too much. The next retort will be a demand that their opinions are respected, in spite of ignoring the logic or opposing viewpoints. That will pretty much nullify the debate and we can get back to discussing LH and whatever new ways people think he's not the best driver - despite repeatedly beating the other drivers in a competition specifically designed to work out who the best driver is
TheDeuce said:
paua said:
You people are all in the WRONG thread, this one is an F1 thread.
Bugger off
I do agree, despite having polluted this (already slightly polluted) thread myself.Bugger off
On the other hand, people with strange ideas appear to have broken through the PH town walls and should be dealt with before this gets out of hand
I wouldn't worry too much. The next retort will be a demand that their opinions are respected, in spite of ignoring the logic or opposing viewpoints. That will pretty much nullify the debate and we can get back to discussing LH and whatever new ways people think he's not the best driver - despite repeatedly beating the other drivers in a competition specifically designed to work out who the best driver is
RemarkLima said:
I think it's generally you get a hard time from the meat eaters and hence spend a lot of time trying to explain your position... Years of being a vegetarian is a pain when you just want to get on with your life without having to explain your choices about food!
Same as people blocking electric car chargers... Just the establishlished norm bucking against change maybe?
if you're the kind of vegan who goes through life trying to prove to all and sundry it makes you inherently superior and more worthy with all manner of pseudoscience pap you'll get 17 tons of sSame as people blocking electric car chargers... Just the establishlished norm bucking against change maybe?
t poured on you wherever you go, same as any nutty belief system.If you're the rare kind of vegan who enjoys his own decisions enough to STFU unless someone else actually wants to know people generally won't think you're a front-bottom.
Teddy Lop said:
if you're the kind of vegan who goes through life trying to prove to all and sundry it makes you inherently superior and more worthy with all manner of pseudoscience pap you'll get 17 tons of st poured on you wherever you go, same as any nut-roasty belief system.
If you're the rare kind of vegan who enjoys his own decisions enough to STFU unless someone else actually wants to know people generally won't think you're a front-bottom.
FTFY! t poured on you wherever you go, same as any nut-roasty belief system.If you're the rare kind of vegan who enjoys his own decisions enough to STFU unless someone else actually wants to know people generally won't think you're a front-bottom.
Back on topic. Not sure if its been mentioned previously in this thread, but has anyone else noticed a real difference in LH this season in interviews?
He seems so much more relaxed, personable, open and honest than he has done in all his previous years in F1..
Its made me warm to him more than I have before, its quite refreshing to see.
He seems so much more relaxed, personable, open and honest than he has done in all his previous years in F1..
Its made me warm to him more than I have before, its quite refreshing to see.
I think he's matured gradually over the years and become more likeable as a result. These guys have quite odd lives and I think it can take a while to find their own feet in a competitive environment. Max is following a similar path, Leclerc seems to have turned up with the maturity at the start of his career you'd normally expect from someone at the end of theirs.
TheDeuce said:
paua said:
You people are all in the WRONG thread, this one is an F1 thread.
Bugger off
I do agree, despite having polluted this (already slightly polluted) thread myself.Bugger off
On the other hand, people with strange ideas appear to have broken through the PH town walls and should be dealt with before this gets out of hand
I wouldn't worry too much. The next retort will be a demand that their opinions are respected, in spite of ignoring the logic or opposing viewpoints. That will pretty much nullify the debate and we can get back to discussing LH and whatever new ways people think he's not the best driver - despite repeatedly beating the other drivers in a competition specifically designed to work out who the best driver is
768 said:
I think he's matured gradually over the years and become more likeable as a result. These guys have quite odd lives and I think it can take a while to find their own feet in a competitive environment. Max is following a similar path, Leclerc seems to have turned up with the maturity at the start of his career you'd normally expect from someone at the end of theirs.
Poor guy's had to grow up - been a lot of loss in his life and formative stages of his career. A lot of F1 related loss specifically - and a few days ago Hubert, who he had his first ever race against as kids. However, sad as it all has been, the end result is remarkably mature human with a good manner about him and all the signs of an excellent driver and future WDC contender - specifically in contention with Max, which is a future saga I look forward too very much sparta6 said:
TheDeuce said:
paua said:
You people are all in the WRONG thread, this one is an F1 thread.
Bugger off
I do agree, despite having polluted this (already slightly polluted) thread myself.Bugger off
On the other hand, people with strange ideas appear to have broken through the PH town walls and should be dealt with before this gets out of hand
I wouldn't worry too much. The next retort will be a demand that their opinions are respected, in spite of ignoring the logic or opposing viewpoints. That will pretty much nullify the debate and we can get back to discussing LH and whatever new ways people think he's not the best driver - despite repeatedly beating the other drivers in a competition specifically designed to work out who the best driver is
That's not always true, sometimes blind luck plays it's part too. But in Lewis's case, Lauda identified him as the driver for Mercedes when he and Toto agreed to move forwards together with Mercedes in F1. It was a direct result of the passion, skill and manner Lewis had demonstrated up to that point. They were setting up a dream team with an almost limitless budget to conquer the sport as never before, and they chose Lewis to deliver the goods.
Edited by TheDeuce on Wednesday 4th September 11:32
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