Lewis Hamilton

Lewis Hamilton

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SeeFive

7,373 posts

180 months

Tuesday 5th November
quotequote all
pgh said:
Kobayashi?!!!!
This fella

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHx3lMvUxaQ

ukaskew

5,332 posts

168 months

Tuesday 5th November
quotequote all
CustardOnChips said:
2008? smile
You could argue a (somewhat flimsy) case for 2019 too.

Merc have had 8 poles from 19, Hamilton himself has only had 4 of those. Very few of the race wins, particularly after the early part of the season, have been a given.

However Mercedes have been by some margin the best team at the sharp end of the grid. Coupled with a driver at the top of his game and the points have painted a far more comfortable picture than perhaps it should have been.

Ferrari have had more than a fair shot at winning the championship at least twice in the past couple of years.

MarkwG

1,997 posts

136 months

Tuesday 5th November
quotequote all
SeeFive said:
TBF that's not wholly representative, he was a lot better than that implies - but more talented than Hamilton rolleyesrolleyesrolleyes

paua

1,381 posts

90 months

Tuesday 5th November
quotequote all
37chevy said:
So Schumacher, Vettel, Mansell, Prost, Senna and Fangio clearly don’t rate highly for you either then.

All had dominant cars, number 2 drivers and in fangios case drivers that would hand their cars over to him mid race if he retired

Talking of which...when do you think the last car to win the championship was, that wasn’t the best or dominant?
Back the truck up a bit, here - Prost had number 2 drivers, did he? Number 2's like Lauda, (keke) Rosberg, Senna, Mansell, perhaps?

37chevy

3,203 posts

103 months

Tuesday 5th November
quotequote all
paua said:
Back the truck up a bit, here - Prost had number 2 drivers, did he? Number 2's like Lauda, (keke) Rosberg, Senna, Mansell, perhaps?
A generalisation on my part....I meant as a mix of those drivers they all had dominant cars and or number 2 drivers at some point

Big Robbo

230 posts

93 months

Tuesday 5th November
quotequote all
Strangely with everybody extolling the greatness of Hamilton and assorted F1 greats, Hakkinen Vettel Kobiyashi etc...nobody has mentioned possibly the greatest driver who made an indelible mark on the general publics conscious. That man and his resultant headlines nobody will ever forget...Pedro Diniz and that classic headline "Diniz in the oven"

Coat.....

vdn

6,910 posts

150 months

Tuesday 5th November
quotequote all
Graveworm said:
DOCG said:
Winning championships without such an inherent advantage
What like GP2 or F3? confused
Exactly.

The thicko’s are out in force force I’m afraid.

pgh

1,439 posts

139 months

Tuesday 5th November
quotequote all
Big Robbo said:
That man and his resultant headlines nobody will ever forget...Pedro Diniz and that classic headline "Diniz in the oven"

Coat.....
I’m going to vote for Taki Inoue, purely for his sense of humour. That and the medical car thing.

TobyTR

713 posts

93 months

Tuesday 5th November
quotequote all
Durzel said:
It's easy to be magnanimous and all smiles when you're on the up and up. People have got short memories if they don't remember Hamilton bhing after almost every race, and in the press, when Vettel was dominating in the RBR. You don't have to look far to find evidence of it.

I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently. They were both at their respective times frustrated with a power imbalance they felt they could nothing to overcome. Hamilton felt, as I'm sure Vettel does now, that they're being held back by their inferior machinery.

So one should remember that Hamilton hasn't always been a model of serenity and geniality. You can tell a lot a man's mettle by how he acts when things aren't going their way, and on that front I can't help but respect Vettel immensely for congratulating Hamilton and the Mercedes team even when he must be struggling to deal with the fact that he's failed to measure up for another season.

Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 5th November 18:26
clap some balance. Totally agree.

Hamilton had to be persuaded to congratulate Nico after that race in 2016

37chevy

3,203 posts

103 months

Tuesday 5th November
quotequote all
TobyTR said:
Durzel said:
It's easy to be magnanimous and all smiles when you're on the up and up. People have got short memories if they don't remember Hamilton bhing after almost every race, and in the press, when Vettel was dominating in the RBR. You don't have to look far to find evidence of it.

I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently. They were both at their respective times frustrated with a power imbalance they felt they could nothing to overcome. Hamilton felt, as I'm sure Vettel does now, that they're being held back by their inferior machinery.

So one should remember that Hamilton hasn't always been a model of serenity and geniality. You can tell a lot a man's mettle by how he acts when things aren't going their way, and on that front I can't help but respect Vettel immensely for congratulating Hamilton and the Mercedes team even when he must be struggling to deal with the fact that he's failed to measure up for another season.

Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 5th November 18:26
clap some balance. Totally agree.

Hamilton had to be persuaded to congratulate Nico after that race in 2016
Balance to a point....

...forgot to mention Vettels hissy fits when things weren’t going his way....in his red bull years against Webber/ ricciardo and early ferrari career

vdn

6,910 posts

150 months

Tuesday 5th November
quotequote all
37chevy said:
Balance to a point....

...forgot to mention Vettels hissy fits when things weren’t going his way....
Like when Vettel literally drove into the side of Hamilton.

Remember when Hamilton did that... oh wait; he didn’t.

I do agree though that Vettel seems comfortable being a loser; even to his teammate. A bit too comfortable perhaps.


LeoSayer

5,889 posts

191 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
37chevy said:
TobyTR said:
Durzel said:
It's easy to be magnanimous and all smiles when you're on the up and up. People have got short memories if they don't remember Hamilton bhing after almost every race, and in the press, when Vettel was dominating in the RBR. You don't have to look far to find evidence of it.

I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently. They were both at their respective times frustrated with a power imbalance they felt they could nothing to overcome. Hamilton felt, as I'm sure Vettel does now, that they're being held back by their inferior machinery.

So one should remember that Hamilton hasn't always been a model of serenity and geniality. You can tell a lot a man's mettle by how he acts when things aren't going their way, and on that front I can't help but respect Vettel immensely for congratulating Hamilton and the Mercedes team even when he must be struggling to deal with the fact that he's failed to measure up for another season.

Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 5th November 18:26
clap some balance. Totally agree.

Hamilton had to be persuaded to congratulate Nico after that race in 2016
Balance to a point....

...forgot to mention Vettels hissy fits when things weren’t going his way....in his red bull years against Webber/ ricciardo and early ferrari career
The link you provided quotes Hamilton saying some pretty magnanimous stuff about Vettel:

"He has driven well all year," said the 28-year-old. "I've just looked at his points and he has had second, first, second, first all year. He's done the perfect job and he deserves it."


glazbagun

10,064 posts

144 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
Durzel said:
It's easy to be magnanimous and all smiles when you're on the up and up. People have got short memories if they don't remember Hamilton bhing after almost every race, and in the press, when Vettel was dominating in the RBR. You don't have to look far to find evidence of it.

I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently. They were both at their respective times frustrated with a power imbalance they felt they could nothing to overcome. Hamilton felt, as I'm sure Vettel does now, that they're being held back by their inferior machinery.

So one should remember that Hamilton hasn't always been a model of serenity and geniality. You can tell a lot a man's mettle by how he acts when things aren't going their way, and on that front I can't help but respect Vettel immensely for congratulating Hamilton and the Mercedes team even when he must be struggling to deal with the fact that he's failed to measure up for another season.

Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 5th November 18:26
He had his good moments even then:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/24206375

Must agree re:seb though. He comes across as a stroppy kid in the cockpit, but out of it he's been a proper gentleman.

Durzel

7,928 posts

115 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
37chevy said:
TobyTR said:
Durzel said:
It's easy to be magnanimous and all smiles when you're on the up and up. People have got short memories if they don't remember Hamilton bhing after almost every race, and in the press, when Vettel was dominating in the RBR. You don't have to look far to find evidence of it.

I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently. They were both at their respective times frustrated with a power imbalance they felt they could nothing to overcome. Hamilton felt, as I'm sure Vettel does now, that they're being held back by their inferior machinery.

So one should remember that Hamilton hasn't always been a model of serenity and geniality. You can tell a lot a man's mettle by how he acts when things aren't going their way, and on that front I can't help but respect Vettel immensely for congratulating Hamilton and the Mercedes team even when he must be struggling to deal with the fact that he's failed to measure up for another season.

Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 5th November 18:26
clap some balance. Totally agree.

Hamilton had to be persuaded to congratulate Nico after that race in 2016
Balance to a point....

...forgot to mention Vettels hissy fits when things weren’t going his way....in his red bull years against Webber/ ricciardo and early ferrari career
Where did I say that Vettel wasn't guilty of being less than professional when things weren't going his way? I explicitly said "I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently". Vettel has recently said that Mercedes dominance could be boring, like Hamilton did when the roles were reversed.

All I said that was more positive towards Vettel was that he went out of his way to congratulate Lewis and the Mercedes garage last year, and was front and centre congratulating him this year. That takes a lot when you feel like it should be you in that position.

When (if) Hamilton is ever in Vettel's current shoes again and does likewise I'll be the first to applaud him. As things stand though during the RBR era he moaned constantly, and as mentioned above had to be coerced into congratulating Rosberg, and since then he's been winning pretty comprehensively. Vettel too was all smiles and fingers when RBR was unassailable.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
-- Martin Luther King, Jr.

Durzel

7,928 posts

115 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
glazbagun said:
He had his good moments even then:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/24206375

Must agree re:seb though. He comes across as a stroppy kid in the cockpit, but out of it he's been a proper gentleman.
Good link. That's the sort of stuff I'm talking about. Hats off to Hamilton for that. I will say that the "Vettel's dominance will bore fans" comment came shortly afterwards though.

That's top of your game motor racing though. As said before I don't blame Hamilton or Vettel persay for getting frustrated at "there but for the Grace of God" beliefs. But, I have big respect for Vettel in recent years being on the losing end regularly and managing to deal with it, and in some cases (per the Mercedes congratulations) actually going out of his way to praise them.

Edited by Durzel on Wednesday 6th November 09:57

37chevy

3,203 posts

103 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
Durzel said:
37chevy said:
TobyTR said:
Durzel said:
It's easy to be magnanimous and all smiles when you're on the up and up. People have got short memories if they don't remember Hamilton bhing after almost every race, and in the press, when Vettel was dominating in the RBR. You don't have to look far to find evidence of it.

I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently. They were both at their respective times frustrated with a power imbalance they felt they could nothing to overcome. Hamilton felt, as I'm sure Vettel does now, that they're being held back by their inferior machinery.

So one should remember that Hamilton hasn't always been a model of serenity and geniality. You can tell a lot a man's mettle by how he acts when things aren't going their way, and on that front I can't help but respect Vettel immensely for congratulating Hamilton and the Mercedes team even when he must be struggling to deal with the fact that he's failed to measure up for another season.

Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 5th November 18:26
clap some balance. Totally agree.

Hamilton had to be persuaded to congratulate Nico after that race in 2016
Balance to a point....

...forgot to mention Vettels hissy fits when things weren’t going his way....in his red bull years against Webber/ ricciardo and early ferrari career
Where did I say that Vettel wasn't guilty of being less than professional when things weren't going his way? I explicitly said "I don't blame Hamilton for this though any more than I blame Vettel for saying the same recently". Vettel has recently said that Mercedes dominance could be boring, like Hamilton did when the roles were reversed.
I haven't accused you of saying vettel wasn't guilty of being less than professional. I just pointed out to Toby that it was a balanced statement to a point but that youd missed out Vettels hissy fits....wasn't having a go at you

DOCG

72 posts

1 month

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
37chevy said:
You’re in no position to judge....

....but you just did by saying you didn’t rate Hamilton, fangio, schumacher, Senna, Prost but you ‘suspect’ Mika, kimi and kobayashi are the most talented drivers...oh jeez, walk away now before you dig a bigger hole
I said "not particularly", maybe they were the best drivers and maybe they weren't, you guys are the ones who pretend that you know who all of the best drivers were.

DOCG

72 posts

1 month

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
37chevy said:
You’re in no position to judge....

....but you just did by saying you didn’t rate Hamilton, fangio, schumacher, Senna, Prost but you ‘suspect’ Mika, kimi and kobayashi are the most talented drivers...oh jeez, walk away now before you dig a bigger hole
Sorry but you are really missing my perceptive on this, my belief is that it is impossible to tell which drivers are/were the best. I only only named a few drivers since you explicitly asked me to.

MarkwG

1,997 posts

136 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
DOCG said:
Sorry but you are really missing my perceptive (perspective?) on this, my belief is that it is impossible to tell which drivers are/were the best. I only only named a few drivers since you explicitly asked me to.
Well, that's really the point isn't it - you can tell who the best Formula 1 driver is in a season, judged against their peer group. That's the whole point. They will be the driver with the most points. F1 is a package, sure, but when the team & driver championships are taken by the same group of people, that's it, they are the best. When the driver wins, but the team doesn't, that tells a slightly different tale. You can also tell to a lesser degree across seasons, when driving against other champions. But, if your point is, are they the best overall driver of any car at any time ever, then, sure, there's no way of empirically measuring that; same as there's no way of knowing whether unicorns are edible or not...

37chevy

3,203 posts

103 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
DOCG said:
37chevy said:
You’re in no position to judge....

....but you just did by saying you didn’t rate Hamilton, fangio, schumacher, Senna, Prost but you ‘suspect’ Mika, kimi and kobayashi are the most talented drivers...oh jeez, walk away now before you dig a bigger hole
You said not particularly...as in not much.

I base my opinions on how good a driver is on experts and their opinions. How many have said kimi or kobayashi are the best?

I said "not particularly", maybe they were the best drivers and maybe they weren't, you guys are the ones who pretend that you know who all of the best drivers were.