Lewis Hamilton

Lewis Hamilton

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Discussion

37chevy

3,211 posts

103 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
DOCG said:
37chevy said:
You’re in no position to judge....

....but you just did by saying you didn’t rate Hamilton, fangio, schumacher, Senna, Prost but you ‘suspect’ Mika, kimi and kobayashi are the most talented drivers...oh jeez, walk away now before you dig a bigger hole
Sorry but you are really missing my perceptive on this, my belief is that it is impossible to tell which drivers are/were the best. I only only named a few drivers since you explicitly asked me to.
No I’m not missing your perspective. I understand it completely, I just think you’re talking utter bks if you think the likes of kobayashi is better than drivers like fangio Senna or schumacher

entropy

3,786 posts

150 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
What has really impressed me more than anything this year, more so than last year or so, has been Lewis's strategic nous with tyres. He has the natural talent, the raw speed but has always had the extra capacity that was never fully utilised.

He has grown into the elderstatesman role as well as in maturity. I don't have a problem with his veganism. It seems like some Mercedes F1 personnel did judging by past racist incident(s). Plus its easy to point out hypocrisies (yes, I am one of them) and judge the purity of one's beliefs. We can put humans on a pedestal and expect/forget they are human. Even Senna was asked why he earned his money from tobacco sales.

Other than that he has been relentless on the race track as he has ever been from the moment he first raced in F1. The question is when will Lewis's downturn occur and who will usurp him. 2021?

Big Robbo

232 posts

93 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
entropy said:
What has really impressed me more than anything this year, more so than last year or so, has been Lewis's strategic nous with tyres. He has the natural talent, the raw speed but has always had the extra capacity that was never fully utilised.

He has grown into the elderstatesman role as well as in maturity. I don't have a problem with his veganism. It seems like some Mercedes F1 personnel did judging by past racist incident(s). Plus its easy to point out hypocrisies (yes, I am one of them) and judge the purity of one's beliefs. We can put humans on a pedestal and expect/forget they are human. Even Senna was asked why he earned his money from tobacco sales.

Other than that he has been relentless on the race track as he has ever been from the moment he first raced in F1. The question is when will Lewis's downturn occur and who will usurp him. 2021?
His tyre management this season has been exceptionally good,gaining results better than he should have, Silverstone being a perfect example of forcing Bottas to go harder on his tyres whilst saving his tyres enough to make a one stop strategy work

velocgee

428 posts

93 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
Re: Vettel congratulating Hamilton.....

Come on guys, those two have been quite chummy for years now. No surprises there. Actually, Vettel is the only driver I have ever seen Hamilton warm to (except the time when he gushed over Leclerc....)

glazbagun

10,065 posts

144 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
velocgee said:
Re: Vettel congratulating Hamilton.....

Come on guys, those two have been quite chummy for years now. No surprises there. Actually, Vettel is the only driver I have ever seen Hamilton warm to (except the time when he gushed over Leclerc....)
He seems to like Kimi too, but I'm not sure if it's reciprocated. hehe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v56BHSVnKK4

mattikake

4,728 posts

146 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
Big Robbo said:
entropy said:
What has really impressed me more than anything this year, more so than last year or so, has been Lewis's strategic nous with tyres. He has the natural talent, the raw speed but has always had the extra capacity that was never fully utilised.

He has grown into the elderstatesman role as well as in maturity. I don't have a problem with his veganism. It seems like some Mercedes F1 personnel did judging by past racist incident(s). Plus its easy to point out hypocrisies (yes, I am one of them) and judge the purity of one's beliefs. We can put humans on a pedestal and expect/forget they are human. Even Senna was asked why he earned his money from tobacco sales.

Other than that he has been relentless on the race track as he has ever been from the moment he first raced in F1. The question is when will Lewis's downturn occur and who will usurp him. 2021?
His tyre management this season has been exceptionally good,gaining results better than he should have, Silverstone being a perfect example of forcing Bottas to go harder on his tyres whilst saving his tyres enough to make a one stop strategy work
Indeed. Monaco - where you could see him adjust his driving style on the fly, first using up the fronts, then when they were gone switching to steering from the rear until the rears were gone. Stringing out the tyres longer than be had any right to. (Watch the race and see the wear on the fronts, then wear appear on the rears, and then the blisters on the rears as his spinning them up to turn a car with dead fronts, overheats them). Very clever and yet I suspect, completely automatic to him.

Hungary too when using tyre knowledge against his rivals. It seems to be something he's maximised pretty fast when such a tactic is required.

Brundle seemed to create a misnomer (from his own a$$?) that Lewis could only drive flat out in his earlier f1 days but he used tyres management to great effect in his f3 euro series title. He'd often put in some blistering early laps, sometimes even just lap 1, when the tyres were at their most effective, then spend the rest of the race managing them in cruise mode while everyone else seemed to steadily run out of tyres executing slower lap times.

Even from an early age he seemed to know how much he could push and when.


Edited by mattikake on Thursday 7th November 00:17

eccles

11,008 posts

169 months

Thursday 7th November
quotequote all
mattikake said:
Indeed. Monaco - where you could see him adjust his driving style on the fly, first using up the fronts, then when they were gone switching to steering from the rear until the rears were gone. Stringing out the tyres longer than be had any right to. (Watch the race and see the wear on the fronts, then wear appear on the rears, and then the blisters on the rears as his spinning them up to turn a car with dead fronts, overheats them). Very clever and yet I suspect, completely automatic to him.

Hungary too when using tyre knowledge against his rivals. It seems to be something he's maximised pretty fast when such a tactic is required.

Brundle seemed to create a misnomer (from his own a$$?) that Lewis could only drive flat out in his earlier f1 days but he used tyres management to great effect in his f3 euro series title. He'd often put in some blistering early laps, sometimes even just lap 1, when the tyres were at their most effective, then spend the rest of the race managing them in cruise mode while everyone else seemed to steadily run out of tyres executing slower lap times.

Even from an early age he seemed to know how much he could push and when.


Edited by mattikake on Thursday 7th November 00:17
Strange that,I seem to remember when he joined F1 that he just seemed to go like a bat out of hell and wear his tyres out and have to do more pit stops than his team mate or rivals.The fact that he's now probably the best of the leading drivers when it comes to tyre wear shows how much he's learnt and evolved over the years.

LeoSayer

5,889 posts

191 months

Thursday 7th November
quotequote all
eccles said:
Strange that,I seem to remember when he joined F1 that he just seemed to go like a bat out of hell and wear his tyres out and have to do more pit stops than his team mate or rivals.The fact that he's now probably the best of the leading drivers when it comes to tyre wear shows how much he's learnt and evolved over the years.
I remember the same. I think he learned a bit on tyre management when he was team mates with Button.

Gary29

2,478 posts

46 months

Thursday 7th November
quotequote all
velocgee said:
Re: Vettel congratulating Hamilton.....

Come on guys, those two have been quite chummy for years now. No surprises there. Actually, Vettel is the only driver I have ever seen Hamilton warm to (except the time when he gushed over Leclerc....)
https://youtu.be/Oqv_zlzkrzM

entropy

3,786 posts

150 months

Thursday 7th November
quotequote all
mattikake said:
Big Robbo said:
His tyre management this season has been exceptionally good,gaining results better than he should have, Silverstone being a perfect example of forcing Bottas to go harder on his tyres whilst saving his tyres enough to make a one stop strategy work
Indeed. Monaco - where you could see him adjust his driving style on the fly, first using up the fronts, then when they were gone switching to steering from the rear until the rears were gone. Stringing out the tyres longer than be had any right to. (Watch the race and see the wear on the fronts, then wear appear on the rears, and then the blisters on the rears as his spinning them up to turn a car with dead fronts, overheats them). Very clever and yet I suspect, completely automatic to him.

Hungary too when using tyre knowledge against his rivals. It seems to be something he's maximised pretty fast when such a tactic is required.

Brundle seemed to create a misnomer (from his own a$$?) that Lewis could only drive flat out in his earlier f1 days but he used tyres management to great effect in his f3 euro series title. He'd often put in some blistering early laps, sometimes even just lap 1, when the tyres were at their most effective, then spend the rest of the race managing them in cruise mode while everyone else seemed to steadily run out of tyres executing slower lap times.

Even from an early age he seemed to know how much he could push and when.


Edited by mattikake on Thursday 7th November 00:17
Tyre management was never in doubt eg. he was better at it than Button when in theory the Pirelli's favoured JB. That is one thing and dictating strategy is another. It's only in the last couple of years he's so confident calling the shots when only a few years ago he was questioning why he's on such a strategy, why can't do something different.

Also, I think the radio excerpts when he suggests certain strategies' aren't possible eg. Monaco this year are Lewis airing his anxities rather some kind of mind games against his rivals. It might also suggests Lewis's own confidence with strategy.

Gary C

5,381 posts

126 months

Thursday 7th November
quotequote all
glazbagun said:
velocgee said:
Re: Vettel congratulating Hamilton.....

Come on guys, those two have been quite chummy for years now. No surprises there. Actually, Vettel is the only driver I have ever seen Hamilton warm to (except the time when he gushed over Leclerc....)
He seems to like Kimi too, but I'm not sure if it's reciprocated. hehe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v56BHSVnKK4
WIth Kimi how would anyone ever be able to tell.

mat205125

15,694 posts

160 months

Friday 8th November
quotequote all
Big Robbo said:
His tyre management this season has been exceptionally good,gaining results better than he should have, Silverstone being a perfect example of forcing Bottas to go harder on his tyres whilst saving his tyres enough to make a one stop strategy work
Absolutely.

His tyre management at Silverstone, Mexico, Texas, and even against Verstappen in Hungary too.

I've a lot of respect for Hamilton's ability to do this, however it saddens me that the tyre manufacturer and the sport force the teams and the drivers down this route.

Races are won by going effectively as slow as possible to preserve the tyres, whilst as smoothly and as swiftly as the teams and drivers dare to avoid the tyres disintegrating ..... rather than being a Usain Bolt power house sprint of the fastest men and machines, it's closer to that stupid wiggly bum walking race, where the competitors risk disaster if their feet leave the ground at the same time.

Not a fault of Hamilton, and I'm sure that he'd be right up there with the fastest if the machinery were more closely matched, with tyres that let the teams race ....... just praying that 2021 gives us that sport.

vdn

6,913 posts

150 months

Friday 8th November
quotequote all
mat205125 said:
Big Robbo said:
His tyre management this season has been exceptionally good,gaining results better than he should have, Silverstone being a perfect example of forcing Bottas to go harder on his tyres whilst saving his tyres enough to make a one stop strategy work
Absolutely.

His tyre management at Silverstone, Mexico, Texas, and even against Verstappen in Hungary too.

I've a lot of respect for Hamilton's ability to do this, however it saddens me that the tyre manufacturer and the sport force the teams and the drivers down this route.

Races are won by going effectively as slow as possible to preserve the tyres, whilst as smoothly and as swiftly as the teams and drivers dare to avoid the tyres disintegrating ..... rather than being a Usain Bolt power house sprint of the fastest men and machines, it's closer to that stupid wiggly bum walking race, where the competitors risk disaster if their feet leave the ground at the same time.

Not a fault of Hamilton, and I'm sure that he'd be right up there with the fastest if the machinery were more closely matched, with tyres that let the teams race ....... just praying that 2021 gives us that sport.
I agree. I think they’d all like to go foot to the floor and the tyre situ’ has ruined that spectacle somewhat. It was worse a few years back, mind.

Going hell for vegan leather is what Hamilton is most suited to, I would say; and so whilst he’s adapted well to the current ways; it’d be a return to his natural state if we go that route. Would love to see it.

swisstoni

8,268 posts

226 months

Friday 8th November
quotequote all
If I recall, he generally uses less fuel than his teammate too!

HustleRussell

17,081 posts

107 months

Friday 8th November
quotequote all
mat205125 said:
I've a lot of respect for Hamilton's ability to do this, however it saddens me that the tyre manufacturer and the sport force the teams and the drivers down this route.

Races are won by going effectively as slow as possible to preserve the tyres, whilst as smoothly and as swiftly as the teams and drivers dare to avoid the tyres disintegrating ..... rather than being a Usain Bolt power house sprint of the fastest men and machines, it's closer to that stupid wiggly bum walking race, where the competitors risk disaster if their feet leave the ground at the same time.
Historically that is what a Grand Prix is

mattikake

4,728 posts

146 months

Friday 8th November
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
mat205125 said:
I've a lot of respect for Hamilton's ability to do this, however it saddens me that the tyre manufacturer and the sport force the teams and the drivers down this route.

Races are won by going effectively as slow as possible to preserve the tyres, whilst as smoothly and as swiftly as the teams and drivers dare to avoid the tyres disintegrating ..... rather than being a Usain Bolt power house sprint of the fastest men and machines, it's closer to that stupid wiggly bum walking race, where the competitors risk disaster if their feet leave the ground at the same time.
Historically that is what a Grand Prix is
Yup. GP racing is endurance racing - for the driver, the car... and the tyres. Most historical f1 races are about this. Iirc the only 100% sprint races were during the schumi refuelling era and it was crap to watch.

Duns

63 posts

12 months

Saturday 9th November
quotequote all
Hat tip to Lewis for Number 6.

Winning 6 WDC's clean.

Edited by Duns on Saturday 9th November 05:30

Wills2

16,156 posts

122 months

Saturday 9th November
quotequote all
mattikake said:
HustleRussell said:
mat205125 said:
I've a lot of respect for Hamilton's ability to do this, however it saddens me that the tyre manufacturer and the sport force the teams and the drivers down this route.

Races are won by going effectively as slow as possible to preserve the tyres, whilst as smoothly and as swiftly as the teams and drivers dare to avoid the tyres disintegrating ..... rather than being a Usain Bolt power house sprint of the fastest men and machines, it's closer to that stupid wiggly bum walking race, where the competitors risk disaster if their feet leave the ground at the same time.
Historically that is what a Grand Prix is
Yup. GP racing is endurance racing - for the driver, the car... and the tyres. Most historical f1 races are about this. Iirc the only 100% sprint races were during the schumi refuelling era and it was crap to watch.
Didn't one Champion once say "The goal is to win at as slow a rate as possible"

Exige77

3,960 posts

138 months

Saturday 9th November
quotequote all
Wills2 said:
mattikake said:
HustleRussell said:
mat205125 said:
I've a lot of respect for Hamilton's ability to do this, however it saddens me that the tyre manufacturer and the sport force the teams and the drivers down this route.

Races are won by going effectively as slow as possible to preserve the tyres, whilst as smoothly and as swiftly as the teams and drivers dare to avoid the tyres disintegrating ..... rather than being a Usain Bolt power house sprint of the fastest men and machines, it's closer to that stupid wiggly bum walking race, where the competitors risk disaster if their feet leave the ground at the same time.
Historically that is what a Grand Prix is
Yup. GP racing is endurance racing - for the driver, the car... and the tyres. Most historical f1 races are about this. Iirc the only 100% sprint races were during the schumi refuelling era and it was crap to watch.
Didn't one Champion once say "The goal is to win at as slow a rate as possible"
From the driver’s perspective, they just wants to win.

From our point of view, we want to be entertained and dazzled by their skill in driving their machines to the absolute limit.

DOCG

72 posts

1 month

Saturday 9th November
quotequote all
mattikake said:
Yup. GP racing is endurance racing - for the driver, the car... and the tyres. Most historical f1 races are about this. Iirc the only 100% sprint races were during the schumi refuelling era and it was crap to watch.
I don't agree, modern F1 is too much about conservation compared to speed.

There has always been an element of conservation and taking care of the car but the current balance puts too much emphasis on conservation of fuels, tyres, battery, limited number of parts for a season and not enough on pure speed.