Lewis Hamilton
Discussion
Nampahc Niloc said:
Drumroll said:
Kraken said:
All depends if you consider the organisation and the sentiment as the same thing. To me saying "black lives matter" isn't saying I support all the goals and ideals of a group of the same name.
If someone says they are left wing does that mean that they fully support everything that the Socialist Worker Party stands for?
Then to save any ambiguity, why not say end discrimination. If someone says they are left wing does that mean that they fully support everything that the Socialist Worker Party stands for?
Munter said:
MarkwG said:
Well try reading all of it then, rather than misquoting. Let's try again.
House 1, let's call it your house, is on fire. House 2, let's call it my house, is not on fire. The fire service turn up to attend to yours; I stand outside mine whining about why they're not aiming their hoses at my house, which still isn't on fire, or in any danger of being on fire - but yours still is. Somewhere, on the far side of town, a house may be on fire, in which case, another fire service will attend to that fire... because more than one fire service exists. How do you feel about my whining, right now, about my house, which is fine, whilst yours is burning down? Got it yet?
It doesn't matter who's the 2nd house belongs to. It's on fire, and it needs putting out.House 1, let's call it your house, is on fire. House 2, let's call it my house, is not on fire. The fire service turn up to attend to yours; I stand outside mine whining about why they're not aiming their hoses at my house, which still isn't on fire, or in any danger of being on fire - but yours still is. Somewhere, on the far side of town, a house may be on fire, in which case, another fire service will attend to that fire... because more than one fire service exists. How do you feel about my whining, right now, about my house, which is fine, whilst yours is burning down? Got it yet?
We know there's more than one house on fire. The house fire is not exclusive to a single property. We need to deal with all the house fires appropriate to the fire they are experiencing.
Thus analogy doesn't work.
MarkwG said:
No, as clearly written, house 2 is not on fire, it's not even warm: you're deliberately adding & obfuscating to change the meaning to suit you, which won't wash, I'm afraid. It says so much more about you than I ever could.
Anybody can see there's more than one fire. Ignoring it and saying this is the only fire doesn't help anybody.MarkwG said:
No, as clearly written, house 2 is not on fire, it's not even warm: you're deliberately adding & obfuscating to change the meaning to suit you, which won't wash, I'm afraid. It says so much more about you than I ever could.
the only people starting fires in all this are the BLM people.But sticking with the fire idea as the feeble minded seem to enjoy rinsing it, its like his house is on fire, so obviously I'm to blame because my great great great great great grandad was a chimney sweep in the 1790s
Munter said:
MarkwG said:
No, as clearly written, house 2 is not on fire, it's not even warm: you're deliberately adding & obfuscating to change the meaning to suit you, which won't wash, I'm afraid. It says so much more about you than I ever could.
Anybody can see there's more than one fire. Ignoring it and saying this is the only fire doesn't help anybody.MarkwG said:
Munter said:
MarkwG said:
No, as clearly written, house 2 is not on fire, it's not even warm: you're deliberately adding & obfuscating to change the meaning to suit you, which won't wash, I'm afraid. It says so much more about you than I ever could.
Anybody can see there's more than one fire. Ignoring it and saying this is the only fire doesn't help anybody.I'm interpreting it the way it's written. Which is not helpful.
Munter said:
MarkwG said:
Munter said:
MarkwG said:
No, as clearly written, house 2 is not on fire, it's not even warm: you're deliberately adding & obfuscating to change the meaning to suit you, which won't wash, I'm afraid. It says so much more about you than I ever could.
Anybody can see there's more than one fire. Ignoring it and saying this is the only fire doesn't help anybody.I'm interpreting it the way it's written. Which is not helpful.
“My house is on fire quick can you call the fire brigade!?”
“Hold on, my house matters too. In fact all houses matter.”
“Yes but yours isn’t on fire right now you fking plank"
Interesting article:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/904d9237-1b...
Hopefully it will open the eyes of a few people and understand a bit more about racism.
A few points from it:
1. If someone who is BIPOC (black, indigenous and people of colour) shares their experience of racism with you, learn to listen carefully to what they have to say and acknowledge their feelings.
2. Educate yourself on racism and understand the issues related to white privilege.
3. Ensure that you offer support and empathy and don't question a person's lived experiences of racism.
4. Recognise if you have internal defensive responses to racism.
5. Call it out and be an ally to those who have suffered from racism and the forms that it manifests in.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/904d9237-1b...
Hopefully it will open the eyes of a few people and understand a bit more about racism.
A few points from it:
1. If someone who is BIPOC (black, indigenous and people of colour) shares their experience of racism with you, learn to listen carefully to what they have to say and acknowledge their feelings.
2. Educate yourself on racism and understand the issues related to white privilege.
3. Ensure that you offer support and empathy and don't question a person's lived experiences of racism.
4. Recognise if you have internal defensive responses to racism.
5. Call it out and be an ally to those who have suffered from racism and the forms that it manifests in.
M5-911 said:
Interesting article:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/904d9237-1b...
Hopefully it will open the eyes of a few people and understand a bit more about racism.
A few points from it:
1. If someone who is BIPOC (black, indigenous and people of colour) shares their experience of racism with you, learn to listen carefully to what they have to say and acknowledge their feelings.
2. Educate yourself on racism and understand the issues related to white privilege.
3. Ensure that you offer support and empathy and don't question a person's lived experiences of racism.
4. Recognise if you have internal defensive responses to racism.
5. Call it out and be an ally to those who have suffered from racism and the forms that it manifests in.
From your link:https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/904d9237-1b...
Hopefully it will open the eyes of a few people and understand a bit more about racism.
A few points from it:
1. If someone who is BIPOC (black, indigenous and people of colour) shares their experience of racism with you, learn to listen carefully to what they have to say and acknowledge their feelings.
2. Educate yourself on racism and understand the issues related to white privilege.
3. Ensure that you offer support and empathy and don't question a person's lived experiences of racism.
4. Recognise if you have internal defensive responses to racism.
5. Call it out and be an ally to those who have suffered from racism and the forms that it manifests in.
BBCNonsense said:
Filmmaker and art director Ezekixl Akinnewu remembers being racially gaslighted while working in the art sector and being "tone policed" by a colleague for his flamboyant personality and for being "too loud."
"When you are like that around people of different races, they come and say, 'why are you so loud?' And when I say that it is just the way I am, they take it [that] you are being 'aggressive.'"
Can you please "educate" me and explain what is racist in the above recollection? I see no reference to his race."When you are like that around people of different races, they come and say, 'why are you so loud?' And when I say that it is just the way I am, they take it [that] you are being 'aggressive.'"
Edited by faa77 on Sunday 26th July 03:28
MarkwG said:
as P1stonhead wrote:
“My house is on fire quick can you call the fire brigade!?”
“Hold on, my house matters too. In fact all houses matter.”
“Yes but yours isn’t on fire right now you fking plank"
In response to...someone saying "my life matters". No? Was it perchance someone suggesting "All lives matter", that brings this analogy? Yes.“My house is on fire quick can you call the fire brigade!?”
“Hold on, my house matters too. In fact all houses matter.”
“Yes but yours isn’t on fire right now you fking plank"
So. We have an analogy that assumes someone is talking about themselves, when they are not. I'd suggest that might not be a great analogy.
A better analogy for you.
Society decides fires are bad. Society implements a series of watch towers to identify fires, they intend this system to cover all areas. The #allfiresmatter towers. Many fires are identified and suppressed, (rarely any are fully extinguished). But the system appears to be working. Fires are spotted, fires are controlled. Unfortunately the system has a flaw. Someone appears to have put shutters up to stop the wind and make the towers more comfortable.
This has created at least one area that's hard to see, to check for fires. The people in that area are rightly angry about this, because there is a big fire, and have put up a tower of their own. #ourfiresmatter tower. They are using it to highlight the fires in their area to the #allfiresmatter towers, get resources sent over, and campaign to get the shutters removed. A worthy cause, I think we all agree.
In the original analogy the "#ourfiresmatter" tower has shutters of its own, and can only see #ourfires. (Because that's what it's for), and go's on to deny the existence of any other fires when they are pointed out by the #allfiresmatter towers, who are doing their best to help, but can't ignore all their obligations to other areas either. As such in my book, it's not a helpful analogy to promote #blacklivesmatter.
But you crack on with it if you want to continue to alienate people to the cause you want to support.
Munter said:
MarkwG said:
as P1stonhead wrote:
“My house is on fire quick can you call the fire brigade!?”
“Hold on, my house matters too. In fact all houses matter.”
“Yes but yours isn’t on fire right now you fking plank"
In response to...someone saying "my life matters". No? Was it perchance someone suggesting "All lives matter", that brings this analogy? Yes.“My house is on fire quick can you call the fire brigade!?”
“Hold on, my house matters too. In fact all houses matter.”
“Yes but yours isn’t on fire right now you fking plank"
So. We have an analogy that assumes someone is talking about themselves, when they are not. I'd suggest that might not be a great analogy.
A better analogy for you.
Society decides fires are bad. Society implements a series of watch towers to identify fires, they intend this system to cover all areas. The #allfiresmatter towers. Many fires are identified and suppressed, (rarely any are fully extinguished). But the system appears to be working. Fires are spotted, fires are controlled. Unfortunately the system has a flaw. Someone appears to have put shutters up to stop the wind and make the towers more comfortable.
This has created at least one area that's hard to see, to check for fires. The people in that area are rightly angry about this, because there is a big fire, and have put up a tower of their own. #ourfiresmatter tower. They are using it to highlight the fires in their area to the #allfiresmatter towers, get resources sent over, and campaign to get the shutters removed. A worthy cause, I think we all agree.
In the original analogy the "#ourfiresmatter" tower has shutters of its own, and can only see #ourfires. (Because that's what it's for), and go's on to deny the existence of any other fires when they are pointed out by the #allfiresmatter towers, who are doing their best to help, but can't ignore all their obligations to other areas either. As such in my book, it's not a helpful analogy to promote #blacklivesmatter.
But you crack on with it if you want to continue to alienate people to the cause you want to support.
p1stonhead said:
You really wanna die on the ‘nah, I don’t reckon black people don’t experience more racism than other people’ hill don’t you.
Given that's the opposite of what I said. Err. No.Shutters being put up, an area, actually a big fire there, being ignored compared to other areas. Did all that pass you by in what I said?
jsf said:
rdjohn said:
All the drivers wearing the same Tee-shirt gives a clear and strong message.
Lewis is the only driver wearing a different Tee-shirt. It's a big mistake he is making associating himself with BLM when the message should be to simply end racism.
The statement BLM is as hollow as #MeToo. I do not believe it will stand the test of time. “End Racism” should be an eternal objective.
I also feel that “taking the knee” looks like subjugation. Way back in 1968 I thought that the black-power salutes, while standing on the Olympic podium, sent a much stronger message to the world.
rdjohn said:
I also feel that “taking the knee” looks like subjugation. Way back in 1968 I thought that the black-power salutes, while standing on the Olympic podium, sent a much stronger message to the world.
Hamilton did that too. Guess what? A very vocal portion of the internet with (it must be said) very poor spelling and grammar, really didn’t like it 
M5-911 said:
Interesting article:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/904d9237-1b...
Hopefully it will open the eyes of a few people and understand a bit more about racism.
A few points from it:
1. If someone who is BIPOC (black, indigenous and people of colour) shares their experience of racism with you, learn to listen carefully to what they have to say and acknowledge their feelings.
2. Educate yourself on racism and understand the issues related to white privilege.
3. Ensure that you offer support and empathy and don't question a person's lived experiences of racism.
4. Recognise if you have internal defensive responses to racism.
5. Call it out and be an ally to those who have suffered from racism and the forms that it manifests in.
if you read this and listrn to the bbc podcast about white people not being Karens then it'll be a good start for everyone...https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/904d9237-1b...
Hopefully it will open the eyes of a few people and understand a bit more about racism.
A few points from it:
1. If someone who is BIPOC (black, indigenous and people of colour) shares their experience of racism with you, learn to listen carefully to what they have to say and acknowledge their feelings.
2. Educate yourself on racism and understand the issues related to white privilege.
3. Ensure that you offer support and empathy and don't question a person's lived experiences of racism.
4. Recognise if you have internal defensive responses to racism.
5. Call it out and be an ally to those who have suffered from racism and the forms that it manifests in.
Then, as per the poster sbove, setting fire to someones house but not yours makes more sense... i think...
rdjohn said:
jsf said:
rdjohn said:
All the drivers wearing the same Tee-shirt gives a clear and strong message.
Lewis is the only driver wearing a different Tee-shirt. It's a big mistake he is making associating himself with BLM when the message should be to simply end racism.
The statement BLM is as hollow as #MeToo. I do not believe it will stand the test of time. “End Racism” should be an eternal objective.
I also feel that “taking the knee” looks like subjugation. Way back in 1968 I thought that the black-power salutes, while standing on the Olympic podium, sent a much stronger message to the world.
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