Lewis Hamilton

[sparta6]

TheDeuce said:

sparta6 said:

As an engineering experiment it's highly impressive.

But - do ticket buyers in the grandstands really care ?
They are turning up for the spectacle.

And soundtrack is 50% of the experience.

No, they don't care - if anything they miss the old sound.

But the manufacturers cared when the decision was made, and no manufacturers would be a major issue for F1 to survive, if at all possible. F1 can only exist if it's of a certain size/scale and it has to attain a minimum level of marketing relevance.

F1 prospered quite well before the advent of hybrids.

Is F1 a sport for racing teams ?
OR
Is F1 an R&D lab for mass market manufacturers ?

They need to decide which, as it's been sitting on the fence for a while

[HustleRussell]

sparta6 said:

F1 prospered quite well before the advent of hybrids.

Is F1 a sport for racing teams ?
OR
Is F1 an R&D lab for mass market manufacturers ?

They need to decide which, as it's been sitting on the fence for a while

Record attendances suggest that the current strategy works

[MarkwG]

sparta6 said:

Is F1 a sport for racing teams ?
OR
Is F1 an R&D lab for mass market manufacturers ?

They need to decide which, as it's been sitting on the fence for a while

Why? No reason it can't be both, in my view.

[swisstoni]

F1 is a marketing device. And the large manufacturers like to at least imply that some of that F1 technology feeds in to the consumer products.
So of course that requires a green direction to be credible.

No doubt the entire grid would prefer screaming Vees but there we are.

[rscott]

swisstoni said:

F1 is a marketing device. And the large manufacturers like to at least imply that some of that F1 technology feeds in to the consumer products.
So of course that requires a green direction to be credible.

No doubt the entire grid would prefer screaming Vees but there we are.

Had they not switched to more fuel efficient hybrids, finding sponsors would be far more difficult too.

[Muzzer79]

sparta6 said:

F1 prospered quite well before the advent of hybrids.

Is F1 a sport for racing teams ?
OR
Is F1 an R&D lab for mass market manufacturers ?

They need to decide which, as it's been sitting on the fence for a while

F1 is about the pinnacle of usable technology. It did quite well before hybrids because hybrids hadn't been invented. That's like saying it did quite well before the advent of aerodynamics.

Like it or not, if they had free reign, an F1 team would not use a screaming V12 engine that sounds glorious to generate the most power efficiency.

Of course, it likely wouldn't be a heavy hybrid system either, but the sport has had to guide development for some time now as we have simply got too clever as a race. Doing what is the ultimate pinnacle wouldn't be relevant, either due to cost or safety.

I still think they should sound better though

[TheDeuce]

MarkwG said:

sparta6 said:

Is F1 a sport for racing teams ?
OR
Is F1 an R&D lab for mass market manufacturers ?

They need to decide which, as it's been sitting on the fence for a while

Why? No reason it can't be both, in my view.

If you swap out "R&D lab" for "Marketing" then yes, it's both and it has been since day one, in one form or another.

It's fine being both in my view, the racing is worth watching, regardless of the 'it could be better' criticisms, and the stakes and corporate pride/success that surrounds the teams efforts provides the F1 soap opera that adds drama to what unfolds on track each GP.

[sparta6]

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

F1 prospered quite well before the advent of hybrids.

Is F1 a sport for racing teams ?
OR
Is F1 an R&D lab for mass market manufacturers ?

They need to decide which, as it's been sitting on the fence for a while

Record attendances suggest that the current strategy works

Pure racing teams such as Williams would disagree.
McLaren and Williams could go racing when F1 was for racing teams.

F1 has lost more than 120 million TV viewers in recent years.

Can Carey's corporate moustache save it ?

[TheDeuce]

sparta6 said:

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

F1 prospered quite well before the advent of hybrids.

Is F1 a sport for racing teams ?
OR
Is F1 an R&D lab for mass market manufacturers ?

They need to decide which, as it's been sitting on the fence for a while

Record attendances suggest that the current strategy works

Pure racing teams such as Williams would disagree.
McLaren and Williams could go racing when F1 was for racing teams.

F1 has lost more than 120 million TV viewers in recent years.

Can Carey's corporate moustache save it ?

Williams have always needed to appeal to the corporate side to make their racing ambitions affordable. Like every other team has..

Are you getting misty eyed over a past that never actually existed

[sparta6]

TheDeuce said:

sparta6 said:

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

F1 prospered quite well before the advent of hybrids.

Is F1 a sport for racing teams ?
OR
Is F1 an R&D lab for mass market manufacturers ?

They need to decide which, as it's been sitting on the fence for a while

Record attendances suggest that the current strategy works

Pure racing teams such as Williams would disagree.
McLaren and Williams could go racing when F1 was for racing teams.

F1 has lost more than 120 million TV viewers in recent years.

Can Carey's corporate moustache save it ?

Williams have always needed to appeal to the corporate side to make their racing ambitions affordable. Like every other team has..

Are you getting misty eyed over a past that never actually existed

How can a racing team such Williams compete with a corporate gorilla such as Mercedes ?

[TheDeuce]

sparta6 said:

TheDeuce said:

sparta6 said:

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

F1 prospered quite well before the advent of hybrids.

Is F1 a sport for racing teams ?
OR
Is F1 an R&D lab for mass market manufacturers ?

They need to decide which, as it's been sitting on the fence for a while

Record attendances suggest that the current strategy works

Pure racing teams such as Williams would disagree.
McLaren and Williams could go racing when F1 was for racing teams.

F1 has lost more than 120 million TV viewers in recent years.

Can Carey's corporate moustache save it ?

Williams have always needed to appeal to the corporate side to make their racing ambitions affordable. Like every other team has..

Are you getting misty eyed over a past that never actually existed

How can a racing team such Williams compete with a corporate gorilla such as Mercedes ?

They can't now. But when they could and did, they were still themselves playing the corporate game on many a level.

Your arguement was that F1 should be about racing not corporate, marketing etc. But it isn't, has not been and cannot be. It is corporate and subsequently the bigger fish generally win out. That is hopefully starting to be addressed in various ways 2022 onward. It will still be as much corporate as it will be racing though.

[HustleRussell]

sparta6 said:

How can a racing team such Williams compete with a corporate gorilla such as Mercedes ?

How can a minnow like Footwork compete with the might of Williams?

[sparta6]

TheDeuce said:

sparta6 said:

TheDeuce said:

sparta6 said:

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

F1 prospered quite well before the advent of hybrids.

Is F1 a sport for racing teams ?
OR
Is F1 an R&D lab for mass market manufacturers ?

They need to decide which, as it's been sitting on the fence for a while

Record attendances suggest that the current strategy works

Pure racing teams such as Williams would disagree.
McLaren and Williams could go racing when F1 was for racing teams.

F1 has lost more than 120 million TV viewers in recent years.

Can Carey's corporate moustache save it ?

Williams have always needed to appeal to the corporate side to make their racing ambitions affordable. Like every other team has..

Are you getting misty eyed over a past that never actually existed

How can a racing team such Williams compete with a corporate gorilla such as Mercedes ?

They can't now. But when they could and did, they were still themselves playing the corporate game on many a level.

Your arguement was that F1 should be about racing not corporate, marketing etc. But it isn't, has not been and cannot be. It is corporate and subsequently the bigger fish generally win out. That is hopefully starting to be addressed in various ways 2022 onward. It will still be as much corporate as it will be racing though.

I recall racing teams such as McLaren, Williams, Ferrari, Benetton exchanging blows year on year.

That see-saw dynamic has been removed since F1 took the Mercedes shilling

[sparta6]

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

How can a racing team such Williams compete with a corporate gorilla such as Mercedes ?

How can a minnow like Footwork compete with the might of Williams?

Both independent racing teams, fair game.

[TheDeuce]

sparta6 said:

I recall racing teams such as McLaren, Williams, Ferrari, Benetton exchanging blows year on year.

That see-saw dynamic has been removed since F1 took the Mercedes shilling

Even before that Ferrari enjoyed both a budget and 'special' advantage. It's been this way for decades. It's not changed just because Mercedes came in when they did.

[sparta6]

TheDeuce said:

sparta6 said:

I recall racing teams such as McLaren, Williams, Ferrari, Benetton exchanging blows year on year.

That see-saw dynamic has been removed since F1 took the Mercedes shilling

Even before that Ferrari enjoyed both a budget and 'special' advantage. It's been this way for decades. It's not changed just because Mercedes came in when they did.

Ferrari has been a racing team since 1950 and has had to continuously slug it out with other racing teams.

Good competition is good for F1.

[HustleRussell]

sparta6 said:

TheDeuce said:

sparta6 said:

I recall racing teams such as McLaren, Williams, Ferrari, Benetton exchanging blows year on year.

That see-saw dynamic has been removed since F1 took the Mercedes shilling

Even before that Ferrari enjoyed both a budget and 'special' advantage. It's been this way for decades. It's not changed just because Mercedes came in when they did.

Ferrari has been a racing team since 1950 and has had to continuously slug it out with other racing teams.

Good competition is good for F1.

Unlike Mercedes who just appeared out of nowhere in 2010 having had no prior involvement in F1, and immediately started out-spending Ferrari and circumventing fuel flow and ERS deployment regs, before being rumbled and reaching a secret 'private settlement' with the FIA to make it all go away...

Yes, we can all agree that Mercedes are not only the biggest spenders, they are as a matter of fact the most 'pandered to' team [/sarcasm]

[C Lee Farquar]

Mercedes have changed F1, right from when they simultaneously employed five team principals when everyone else was under the illusion you could run an F1 team with one.

[sparta6]

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

TheDeuce said:

sparta6 said:

I recall racing teams such as McLaren, Williams, Ferrari, Benetton exchanging blows year on year.

That see-saw dynamic has been removed since F1 took the Mercedes shilling

Even before that Ferrari enjoyed both a budget and 'special' advantage. It's been this way for decades. It's not changed just because Mercedes came in when they did.

Ferrari has been a racing team since 1950 and has had to continuously slug it out with other racing teams.

Good competition is good for F1.

Unlike Mercedes who just appeared out of nowhere in 2010 having had no prior involvement in F1, and immediately started out-spending Ferrari and circumventing fuel flow and ERS deployment regs, before being rumbled and reaching a secret 'private settlement' with the FIA to make it all go away...

Yes, we can all agree that Mercedes are not only the biggest spenders, they are as a matter of fact the most 'pandered to' team [/sarcasm]

You jest - but you are actually correct !

5 years into Schumacher's dominance (quite well deserved after 5 years of dogged development) the FIA intervened by changing tyre regs to suit Michelin

7 years into Mercedes dominance and the FIA are still relaxing on their German beach towel

[anonymous-user]

sparta6 said:

You jest - but you are actually correct !

5 years into Schumacher's dominance (quite well deserved after 5 years of dogged development) the FIA intervened by changing tyre regs to suit Michelin

7 years into Mercedes dominance and the FIA are still relaxing on their German beach towel

They did the oposite, changing the rules to ban the current Michelin tyre profile and favouring the Bridgestone used by Ferrari.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/michelin-reacts...