Silverstone to opt out of hosting GP

Silverstone to opt out of hosting GP

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Discussion

Europa1

10,923 posts

187 months

Monday 9th January 2017
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thegreenhell said:
So 15 of 19 races aren't financially viable without state funding, with the British GP also seemingly heading into that category. Is that not a strong sign that the system is broken? There are billions of dollars floating around in the sport, with the sport's owners creaming a huge profit off the top. If they can't come up with a sustainable model with all the money coming into the sport from other sources then I say let it die. As much as I'd hate losing the BGP from the calendar, I really don't think our taxes should be used to rescue it.
I have a feeling that currently our taxes couldn't be used because to do so would contravene EU state aid rules - I seem to remember there was some controversy around the upgrading of the road that runs past Silverstone.

KevinCamaroSS

11,555 posts

279 months

Monday 9th January 2017
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Europa1 said:
thegreenhell said:
So 15 of 19 races aren't financially viable without state funding, with the British GP also seemingly heading into that category. Is that not a strong sign that the system is broken? There are billions of dollars floating around in the sport, with the sport's owners creaming a huge profit off the top. If they can't come up with a sustainable model with all the money coming into the sport from other sources then I say let it die. As much as I'd hate losing the BGP from the calendar, I really don't think our taxes should be used to rescue it.
I have a feeling that currently our taxes couldn't be used because to do so would contravene EU state aid rules - I seem to remember there was some controversy around the upgrading of the road that runs past Silverstone.
Agree with TGH. Totally unsustainable as a business model. Lets hope Liberty Media understand this.

EU state aid rules are only followed by the UK, the other countries ignore them.... They must do since there are subsidized races elsewhere in the EU smile

Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Monday 9th January 2017
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KevinCamaroSS said:
Agree with TGH. Totally unsustainable as a business model. Lets hope Liberty Media understand this.

EU state aid rules are only followed by the UK, the other countries ignore them.... They must do since there are subsidized races elsewhere in the EU smile
Aren't events excluded from state aid? e.g. the Tour de France was supported by Whitehall for £10M.

thegreenhell

15,115 posts

218 months

Monday 9th January 2017
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If not direct state aid then it would probably be wrapped up as a lottery grant or some other bks. However it's delivered, F1 as a commercial sport doesn't need any additional funding from this country.

Alex Langheck

835 posts

128 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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Too many circuits are pushing themselves close to the edge - all for the prestige of hosting an F1 race. Not only that, quite often circuits are changed/ ruined for that one race - which ruins it for all the other series.

Time to get real, if it's not making a proper RoI, then drop it. It utter madness. I've little sympathy with circuits who continue paying the ridiculous 'hosting fee'.

There's plenty of fine series out there who aren't charging overblown fees. But yet again, it's F1 or nothing.

F1 is a blight on the rest of Motorsport......let it sink in its own morass.

KevinCamaroSS

11,555 posts

279 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
If not direct state aid then it would probably be wrapped up as a lottery grant or some other bks. However it's delivered, F1 as a commercial sport doesn't need any additional funding from this country.
Agree absolutely. F1 is pricing itself to death.

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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Alex Langheck said:
Too many circuits are pushing themselves close to the edge - all for the prestige of hosting an F1 race. Not only that, quite often circuits are changed/ ruined for that one race - which ruins it for all the other series.

Time to get real, if it's not making a proper RoI, then drop it. It utter madness. I've little sympathy with circuits who continue paying the ridiculous 'hosting fee'.

There's plenty of fine series out there who aren't charging overblown fees. But yet again, it's F1 or nothing.

F1 is a blight on the rest of Motorsport......let it sink in its own morass.
I don't know why a load of the circuit owners don't all have a chat and put an end to these ridiculous fees. Surely they should be able to run their own little cartel. It's the fact that Bernie has been able to play them off against each other that has meant they get shafted.

Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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London424 said:
I don't know why a load of the circuit owners don't all have a chat and put an end to these ridiculous fees. Surely they should be able to run their own little cartel. It's the fact that Bernie has been able to play them off against each other that has meant they get shafted.
Because cartels are illegal in most countries?

What we probably need is the EU investigation. But that seems to be stalled.

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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Vaud said:
London424 said:
I don't know why a load of the circuit owners don't all have a chat and put an end to these ridiculous fees. Surely they should be able to run their own little cartel. It's the fact that Bernie has been able to play them off against each other that has meant they get shafted.
Because cartels are illegal in most countries?

What we probably need is the EU investigation. But that seems to be stalled.
I know officially they are, but a loose collection of contacts talking to each other and committing to not being bent over by Bernie on fees should be workable!

And I'm not suggesting price fixing or anything like that, just more along the lines of not getting played off against each other.

thegreenhell

15,115 posts

218 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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It would be more like a trade union than a cartel, if they're just collectively standing up for their own rights.

rev-erend

21,404 posts

283 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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KevinCamaroSS said:
Agree absolutely. F1 is pricing itself to death.
Agreed.

The sheer greed of Bernie and now new owners..

Many of the existing 'good entertainment' venues are struggling..

The F1 specticle has been severly lacking for a few years but next year hopefully should see that improve but the tyre supplier could easily be a spanner in those works.

ukaskew

10,642 posts

220 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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Alex Langheck said:
Time to get real, if it's not making a proper RoI, then drop it. It utter madness. I've little sympathy with circuits who continue paying the ridiculous 'hosting fee'.

There's plenty of fine series out there who aren't charging overblown fees. But yet again, it's F1 or nothing.
The problem for a circuit like Silverstone is that it's essentially now built with top tier international events as it's USP and business model. Without F1 the whole infrastructure is unsustainable for the level of events that fill most of the rest of the calendar. Particularly so as they built it up so badly, the Wing (access to and view of the pits) is the worst designed element of a race circuit I've ever seen.

It's not great for trackdays (once you've scratched the 'driven on an F1 circuit' itch), it's not great for club events and it's terrible for spectators.

A circuit like Brands can attract a similar level of event (top tier aside) and attract an audience due to its location but more fundamentally its spectator friendliness. I don't know anyone who chooses to go and spectate at Silverstone on a regular basis unless they live very close, or if it's an event you simply can't get elsewhere (24hr, F1, WEC etc).

rdjohn

6,135 posts

194 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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Eric Mc said:
Then people who run F1 consider themselves to be so smart, they can't see that they are destroying the very thing that they live off.
I think this is so true. The teams are focused on this and next year's championships. With manufacturers involved, they can't be certain they will even be arround in 5 years.

The circuits (now generally state-owned) are desperate to secure a race, or how to turn a profit. Already holding a race in Mxico screws Austin and Singapore, Malaysia. They then realise that the price-escalators are crippling any possibility of getting punters through the turnstiles.

Meanwhile the only person with a long term vision has negated any serious influence from the FIA, and locked everyone into medium term contracts with varying termination points so he always has freedom in his future negotiations while lining his and the co-owners of FOM's very large pockets.

We must be near the peak of pay-per-view via Internet technologies, so any scenario that looks forward 20-years, or so, cannot conclude that the current format is sustainable.

I would like to see someone like Ross Brawn preparing a technical and business framework for 5, 10 and 20 years hence. But I would also bet that it would never be allowed to happen.

Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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rdjohn said:
We must be near the peak of pay-per-view via Internet technologies, so any scenario that looks forward 20-years, or so, cannot conclude that the current format is sustainable.
Not sure we are. I would pay to watch (and do via Now TV occasionally) - if that proposition gets a bit better then I'll be more regular, reluctantly.

And there are some really interesting new technologies. How about the ability to race "live against Lewis Hamilton"? The tech exists. Streaming of live race positions to an F1 game and a fan can be in their own virtual cockpit (although without collisions) and be part of the race... etc...

Or VR? see the race in 3d, via a VR headset, from the cockpit. I'd pay a few extra £ in a race to see that.

rev-erend

21,404 posts

283 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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Not that that I'm suggesting this replaces Silverstone.. but its already secured the Motogp but whether it has the infrastructure for F1 I have no idea.

http://circuitofwales.com/

Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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rev-erend said:
Not that that I'm suggesting this replaces Silverstone.. but its already secured the Motogp but whether it has the infrastructure for F1 I have no idea.

http://circuitofwales.com/
Seriously?

It secured MotoGP for 2015—2019. It is 2017 and they haven't yet got a circuit built so it is optimistic for this year or next. So maybe 2019.

Oh, the main backer, the Welsh Government pulled out their main backing in April 2016.

So on balance of probabilities, it's not the ideal candidate?

Edit to add... I can't actually find any firm build updates. Lots of spin. Have they actually started construction? I'd have expected to see lots of building pictures on their web site...

Edited by Vaud on Tuesday 10th January 20:02

thegreenhell

15,115 posts

218 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
quotequote all
rev-erend said:
Not that that I'm suggesting this replaces Silverstone.. but its already secured the Motogp but whether it has the infrastructure for F1 I have no idea.

http://circuitofwales.com/
They've yet to break ground on the project. It's all brewing up into something of a scandal, with millions of pounds of government funding and nothing to show for it. There's an interesting investigative documentary in the iplayer about it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07yy22v/week...

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
They've yet to break ground on the project. It's all brewing up into something of a scandal, with millions of pounds of government funding and nothing to show for it. There's an interesting investigative documentary in the iplayer about it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07yy22v/week...
Destined to fail from the start. They bought the rights to the British MotoGP round and immediately signed a deal with Silverstone to host it. Bought a couple of Transits last year, stickered them up and spent the whole MotoGP weekend driving them around the peri track at Silverstone. Needless to say one conked out after the race....

ukaskew

10,642 posts

220 months

Wednesday 11th January 2017
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Circuit of Wales have just announced (wait for it):

Water and wave park
Drift track
MTB track
Indoor and outdoor karting centre
Trampoline park
Paintball centre
Moto X track
Skate park
Indoor ski centre
Hotel
Lodges
Retail park

It's like a 16 year old just wrote a list of everything they'd like in one place. Silverstone can't even afford to build a bridge st the moment.

Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Wednesday 11th January 2017
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ukaskew said:
Circuit of Wales have just announced (wait for it):

Water and wave park
Drift track
MTB track
Indoor and outdoor karting centre
Trampoline park
Paintball centre
Moto X track
Skate park
Indoor ski centre
Hotel
Lodges
Retail park

It's like a 16 year old just wrote a list of everything they'd like in one place. Silverstone can't even afford to build a bridge st the moment.
But no actual track? wink