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Silverstone to opt out of hosting GP

Silverstone to opt out of hosting GP

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Discussion

Eric Mc

93,172 posts

181 months

Monday 9th January
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Couldn't agree more.

Then people who run F1 consider themselves to be so smart, they can't see that they are destroying the very thing that they live off.

Funk

18,517 posts

125 months

Monday 9th January
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thegreenhell said:
As much as I'd hate losing the BGP from the calendar, I really don't think our taxes should be used to rescue it.
Absolutely. Why persist with something that makes such a loss AND sucks funding from the public finances?

ukaskew

2,962 posts

137 months

Monday 9th January
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thegreenhell said:
As much as I'd hate losing the BGP from the calendar, I really don't think our taxes should be used to rescue it.
And if it's a painful wake up call for the sport then so be it, sadly. I've seen some 'fans' suggest the likes of Hamilton, Button etc should pay for it (because they have money, presumably), which is overlooking the fundamental issue somewhat...that of the even richer people at the top of the pile who are the ones actually making money from the hosting of each event.

Ticket sales alone (which is pretty much all a circuit makes from a GP weekend) don't cover the cost of hosting a race AND paying massive race fees (that increase every year). A simple problem with a simple solution or two, either drastically reduce hosting fees or change the model to allow circuits to generate income through their own sponsorship deals, advertising etc.

Europa1

4,024 posts

104 months

Monday 9th January
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thegreenhell said:
So 15 of 19 races aren't financially viable without state funding, with the British GP also seemingly heading into that category. Is that not a strong sign that the system is broken? There are billions of dollars floating around in the sport, with the sport's owners creaming a huge profit off the top. If they can't come up with a sustainable model with all the money coming into the sport from other sources then I say let it die. As much as I'd hate losing the BGP from the calendar, I really don't think our taxes should be used to rescue it.
I have a feeling that currently our taxes couldn't be used because to do so would contravene EU state aid rules - I seem to remember there was some controversy around the upgrading of the road that runs past Silverstone.

KevinCamaroSS

7,430 posts

196 months

Monday 9th January
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Europa1 said:
thegreenhell said:
So 15 of 19 races aren't financially viable without state funding, with the British GP also seemingly heading into that category. Is that not a strong sign that the system is broken? There are billions of dollars floating around in the sport, with the sport's owners creaming a huge profit off the top. If they can't come up with a sustainable model with all the money coming into the sport from other sources then I say let it die. As much as I'd hate losing the BGP from the calendar, I really don't think our taxes should be used to rescue it.
I have a feeling that currently our taxes couldn't be used because to do so would contravene EU state aid rules - I seem to remember there was some controversy around the upgrading of the road that runs past Silverstone.
Agree with TGH. Totally unsustainable as a business model. Lets hope Liberty Media understand this.

EU state aid rules are only followed by the UK, the other countries ignore them.... They must do since there are subsidized races elsewhere in the EU smile
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Vaud

23,424 posts

71 months

Monday 9th January
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KevinCamaroSS said:
Agree with TGH. Totally unsustainable as a business model. Lets hope Liberty Media understand this.

EU state aid rules are only followed by the UK, the other countries ignore them.... They must do since there are subsidized races elsewhere in the EU smile
Aren't events excluded from state aid? e.g. the Tour de France was supported by Whitehall for £10M.

thegreenhell

2,847 posts

135 months

Monday 9th January
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If not direct state aid then it would probably be wrapped up as a lottery grant or some other bks. However it's delivered, F1 as a commercial sport doesn't need any additional funding from this country.

Alex Langheck

716 posts

45 months

Tuesday 10th January
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Too many circuits are pushing themselves close to the edge - all for the prestige of hosting an F1 race. Not only that, quite often circuits are changed/ ruined for that one race - which ruins it for all the other series.

Time to get real, if it's not making a proper RoI, then drop it. It utter madness. I've little sympathy with circuits who continue paying the ridiculous 'hosting fee'.

There's plenty of fine series out there who aren't charging overblown fees. But yet again, it's F1 or nothing.

F1 is a blight on the rest of Motorsport......let it sink in its own morass.

KevinCamaroSS

7,430 posts

196 months

Tuesday 10th January
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thegreenhell said:
If not direct state aid then it would probably be wrapped up as a lottery grant or some other bks. However it's delivered, F1 as a commercial sport doesn't need any additional funding from this country.
Agree absolutely. F1 is pricing itself to death.

London424

9,893 posts

91 months

Tuesday 10th January
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Alex Langheck said:
Too many circuits are pushing themselves close to the edge - all for the prestige of hosting an F1 race. Not only that, quite often circuits are changed/ ruined for that one race - which ruins it for all the other series.

Time to get real, if it's not making a proper RoI, then drop it. It utter madness. I've little sympathy with circuits who continue paying the ridiculous 'hosting fee'.

There's plenty of fine series out there who aren't charging overblown fees. But yet again, it's F1 or nothing.

F1 is a blight on the rest of Motorsport......let it sink in its own morass.
I don't know why a load of the circuit owners don't all have a chat and put an end to these ridiculous fees. Surely they should be able to run their own little cartel. It's the fact that Bernie has been able to play them off against each other that has meant they get shafted.

Vaud

23,424 posts

71 months

Tuesday 10th January
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London424 said:
I don't know why a load of the circuit owners don't all have a chat and put an end to these ridiculous fees. Surely they should be able to run their own little cartel. It's the fact that Bernie has been able to play them off against each other that has meant they get shafted.
Because cartels are illegal in most countries?

What we probably need is the EU investigation. But that seems to be stalled.

London424

9,893 posts

91 months

Tuesday 10th January
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Vaud said:
London424 said:
I don't know why a load of the circuit owners don't all have a chat and put an end to these ridiculous fees. Surely they should be able to run their own little cartel. It's the fact that Bernie has been able to play them off against each other that has meant they get shafted.
Because cartels are illegal in most countries?

What we probably need is the EU investigation. But that seems to be stalled.
I know officially they are, but a loose collection of contacts talking to each other and committing to not being bent over by Bernie on fees should be workable!

And I'm not suggesting price fixing or anything like that, just more along the lines of not getting played off against each other.

thegreenhell

2,847 posts

135 months

Tuesday 10th January
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It would be more like a trade union than a cartel, if they're just collectively standing up for their own rights.

rev-erend

19,343 posts

200 months

Tuesday 10th January
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KevinCamaroSS said:
Agree absolutely. F1 is pricing itself to death.
Agreed.

The sheer greed of Bernie and now new owners..

Many of the existing 'good entertainment' venues are struggling..

The F1 specticle has been severly lacking for a few years but next year hopefully should see that improve but the tyre supplier could easily be a spanner in those works.

ukaskew

2,962 posts

137 months

Tuesday 10th January
quotequote all
Alex Langheck said:
Time to get real, if it's not making a proper RoI, then drop it. It utter madness. I've little sympathy with circuits who continue paying the ridiculous 'hosting fee'.

There's plenty of fine series out there who aren't charging overblown fees. But yet again, it's F1 or nothing.
The problem for a circuit like Silverstone is that it's essentially now built with top tier international events as it's USP and business model. Without F1 the whole infrastructure is unsustainable for the level of events that fill most of the rest of the calendar. Particularly so as they built it up so badly, the Wing (access to and view of the pits) is the worst designed element of a race circuit I've ever seen.

It's not great for trackdays (once you've scratched the 'driven on an F1 circuit' itch), it's not great for club events and it's terrible for spectators.

A circuit like Brands can attract a similar level of event (top tier aside) and attract an audience due to its location but more fundamentally its spectator friendliness. I don't know anyone who chooses to go and spectate at Silverstone on a regular basis unless they live very close, or if it's an event you simply can't get elsewhere (24hr, F1, WEC etc).

rdjohn

2,245 posts

111 months

Tuesday 10th January
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Eric Mc said:
Then people who run F1 consider themselves to be so smart, they can't see that they are destroying the very thing that they live off.
I think this is so true. The teams are focused on this and next year's championships. With manufacturers involved, they can't be certain they will even be arround in 5 years.

The circuits (now generally state-owned) are desperate to secure a race, or how to turn a profit. Already holding a race in Mxico screws Austin and Singapore, Malaysia. They then realise that the price-escalators are crippling any possibility of getting punters through the turnstiles.

Meanwhile the only person with a long term vision has negated any serious influence from the FIA, and locked everyone into medium term contracts with varying termination points so he always has freedom in his future negotiations while lining his and the co-owners of FOM's very large pockets.

We must be near the peak of pay-per-view via Internet technologies, so any scenario that looks forward 20-years, or so, cannot conclude that the current format is sustainable.

I would like to see someone like Ross Brawn preparing a technical and business framework for 5, 10 and 20 years hence. But I would also bet that it would never be allowed to happen.

Vaud

23,424 posts

71 months

Tuesday 10th January
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rdjohn said:
We must be near the peak of pay-per-view via Internet technologies, so any scenario that looks forward 20-years, or so, cannot conclude that the current format is sustainable.
Not sure we are. I would pay to watch (and do via Now TV occasionally) - if that proposition gets a bit better then I'll be more regular, reluctantly.

And there are some really interesting new technologies. How about the ability to race "live against Lewis Hamilton"? The tech exists. Streaming of live race positions to an F1 game and a fan can be in their own virtual cockpit (although without collisions) and be part of the race... etc...

Or VR? see the race in 3d, via a VR headset, from the cockpit. I'd pay a few extra £ in a race to see that.

rev-erend

19,343 posts

200 months

Tuesday 10th January
quotequote all
Not that that I'm suggesting this replaces Silverstone.. but its already secured the Motogp but whether it has the infrastructure for F1 I have no idea.

http://circuitofwales.com/

Vaud

23,424 posts

71 months

Tuesday 10th January
quotequote all
rev-erend said:
Not that that I'm suggesting this replaces Silverstone.. but its already secured the Motogp but whether it has the infrastructure for F1 I have no idea.

http://circuitofwales.com/
Seriously?

It secured MotoGP for 2015—2019. It is 2017 and they haven't yet got a circuit built so it is optimistic for this year or next. So maybe 2019.

Oh, the main backer, the Welsh Government pulled out their main backing in April 2016.

So on balance of probabilities, it's not the ideal candidate?

Edit to add... I can't actually find any firm build updates. Lots of spin. Have they actually started construction? I'd have expected to see lots of building pictures on their web site...

Edited by Vaud on Tuesday 10th January 20:02

thegreenhell

2,847 posts

135 months

Tuesday 10th January
quotequote all
rev-erend said:
Not that that I'm suggesting this replaces Silverstone.. but its already secured the Motogp but whether it has the infrastructure for F1 I have no idea.

http://circuitofwales.com/
They've yet to break ground on the project. It's all brewing up into something of a scandal, with millions of pounds of government funding and nothing to show for it. There's an interesting investigative documentary in the iplayer about it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07yy22v/week...