Honda - another disaster ?

Honda - another disaster ?

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carl_w

9,154 posts

257 months

Friday 21st July 2017
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MissChief said:
Any idea how/why McLaren were allowed to do this? Surely it's not just tyre testing but car and engine testing too? We're other teams asked? Did they draw the team out of a hat?
All 10 teams involved at some point during the year, although this link suggests that McLaren were at Manky-Course, which I guess is confirmed by the "Nevers" sign in the pic above http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/15/pirelli-anno...

Gary C

12,312 posts

178 months

Saturday 22nd July 2017
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MissChief said:
Any idea how/why McLaren were allowed to do this? Surely it's not just tyre testing but car and engine testing too? We're other teams asked? Did they draw the team out of a hat?
Not sure the other teams are that worried.

CraigyMc

16,300 posts

235 months

Saturday 22nd July 2017
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carl_w said:
MissChief said:
Any idea how/why McLaren were allowed to do this? Surely it's not just tyre testing but car and engine testing too? We're other teams asked? Did they draw the team out of a hat?
All 10 teams involved at some point during the year, although this link suggests that McLaren were at Manky-Course, which I guess is confirmed by the "Nevers" sign in the pic above http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/15/pirelli-anno...
Pirelli testing 2017:

2017 IN SEASON TEST PLAN

Apr 18-19 : Sakhir - Ferrari (1 day)*
May 16-17 : Barcelona - Renault, Toro Rosso (4 days)
May 31-Jun 1: Paul Ricard - Red Bull (wet test, 2 days)
Jun 29-30 : Paul Ricard - Red Bull (2 days)
July 18-19 : Silverstone - Williams, Haas (4 days)
July 19-20 : Magny-Cours - McLaren (wet test, 2 days)
Aug 1-2 : Hungaroring - Mercedes (1 day)*
Aug 3-4 : Barcelona - Ferrari (2 days)
Sep 7-8 : Paul Ricard - Mercedes (2 days)
Oct 31-Nov 1: Mexico City - Sauber (2 days), Force India (1 day)
Nov 14-15 : Interlagos - McLaren (2 days)

* One day of running to take place alongside in-season test
'Days' refers to number of 'car days' of running


For those who aren't "up" on F1 rules, the tyre testing days are mandated so Pirelli don't get into another situation where their tyres meet unexpected loads in competition and start failing, as they have in previous seasons.

The teams running them aren't told what type of tyres they are using (they have no markings) and the construction/layup/materials involved are generally not obvious (you can't guess "this is the new supersoft" - Pirelli will typically try a new construction with an old material or vice-versa).

For the cars, the teams are not allowed to run parts not already homologated earlier in the season (so no new design of engine to test for McLaren Honda just for the tyre test) - everything has to be a part whose design was already used in competition, though the actual bits on the car can be new and don't count towards a season's allocation.

Honda probably ran a new example spec 3 engine at the test, and McLaren probably supplied a box-fresh gearbox for it.
It's feasible that Honda supplied two engines for the test - one for each day. If I was trying to get reliability that's what I'd do (because you can then tear both engines down afterward and check how they are both wearing).

Edited by CraigyMc on Saturday 22 July 17:39

amgmcqueen

3,343 posts

149 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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Honda are a complete and utter embarrassment and should have never come back.

McLaren need to bin them off ASAP! Hopefully before the end of the season.

MissChief

7,095 posts

167 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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amgmcqueen said:
Honda are a complete and utter embarrassment and should have never come back.

McLaren need to bin them off ASAP! Hopefully before the end of the season.
I believe they've still completed more race laps than Red Bull. It's Red bull who should leaving. What an embarrassment they are!

If, as has been reported, Mercedes and Ferrari have declined to supply McLaren with Engines then McLaren have little choice but to continue with Honda. The only other option is Renault. It also tells us that Mercedes and Ferrari are afraid of McLaren and theat they're well aware that the car and chassis is clearly good, it's only the engine that's holding them back and if they were to get a good engine they'd be splitting the Red bull's and maybe even fighting with Ferrari and Mercedes themselves.

I FIRMLY believe Honda will come good eventually and it will make the victories even sweeter when they happen.

LaurasOtherHalf

21,429 posts

195 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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MissChief said:
I believe they've still completed more race laps than Red Bull.
At a pace that has generated them how many world championship points again?

Gary C

12,312 posts

178 months

Monday 24th July 2017
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MissChief said:
I FIRMLY believe Honda will come good eventually and it will make the victories even sweeter when they happen.
I don't share your confidence, only the hope

Honda have embarrassed themselves to a global market, and while it's easy to say it's complicated and difficult to build a modern f1 engine, they do seem to have made a right pigs ear of it.

cuprabob

14,414 posts

213 months

Monday 24th July 2017
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Although it's costing them an obscene amount of money and their reputation is taking a hit, it doesn't seem to be stopping the average person on the street buying their products.

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Monday 24th July 2017
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cuprabob said:
Although it's costing them an obscene amount of money and their reputation is taking a hit, it doesn't seem to be stopping the average person on the street buying their products.
And that's what mystifies me. The demographic isn't interested in F1, it's interested in Songs of Praise....

HustleRussell

24,602 posts

159 months

Monday 24th July 2017
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rubystone said:
And that's what mystifies me. The demographic isn't interested in F1, it's interested in Songs of Praise....
A rather blinkered view if I may say so.

carl_w

9,154 posts

257 months

Monday 24th July 2017
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HustleRussell said:
A rather blinkered view if I may say so.
An Italian guy told me that in Italy Honda is seen as a youth brand.

HustleRussell

24,602 posts

159 months

Monday 24th July 2017
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carl_w said:
HustleRussell said:
A rather blinkered view if I may say so.
An Italian guy told me that in Italy Honda is seen as a youth brand.
In Thailand, the cool cars youngsters want to be seen in are the Honda Fit (Jazz) or the Toyota Yaris.

cuprabob

14,414 posts

213 months

Monday 24th July 2017
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rubystone said:
cuprabob said:
Although it's costing them an obscene amount of money and their reputation is taking a hit, it doesn't seem to be stopping the average person on the street buying their products.
And that's what mystifies me. The demographic isn't interested in F1, it's interested in Songs of Praise....
I like both F1 and Songs of Praisesmile

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Monday 24th July 2017
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cuprabob said:
I like both F1 and Songs of Praisesmile
Which is why you don't own a Honda. smile

I'm sure Ferrari are stting their pants about the Thai market moving from 488s to Jazzes

CraigyMc

16,300 posts

235 months

Monday 24th July 2017
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rubystone said:
And that's what mystifies me. The demographic isn't interested in F1, it's interested in Songs of Praise....
Where? The UK is a tiny market compared to the whole world.

matty13

111 posts

157 months

Monday 24th July 2017
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Honda sell more internal combustion engine than anyone else in the world , they will come good

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 24th July 2017
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Honda only supply McLaren on the grid and this is the huge problem.

Sauber were supposed to be taking the engines but this sounds like it has fallen through.

They came to the party late and the door is locked.

Vaud

50,285 posts

154 months

Monday 24th July 2017
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ELUSIVEJIM said:
Honda only supply McLaren on the grid and this is the huge problem.

Sauber were supposed to be taking the engines but this sounds like it has fallen through.

They came to the party late and the door is locked.
Why do you think single supply is such a big issue?

cuprabob

14,414 posts

213 months

Monday 24th July 2017
quotequote all
Vaud said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Honda only supply McLaren on the grid and this is the huge problem.

Sauber were supposed to be taking the engines but this sounds like it has fallen through.

They came to the party late and the door is locked.
Why do you think single supply is such a big issue?
The more engines running, the more mileage is done and data is gathered over a shorter period of time, hopefully resulting in quicker improvement in both performance and reliability.

The testing restrictions hurt Honda.

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Monday 24th July 2017
quotequote all
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Honda only supply McLaren on the grid and this is the huge problem.

Sauber were supposed to be taking the engines but this sounds like it has fallen through.

They came to the party late and the door is locked.
The Sauber deal isn't definitely dead though.