Honda - another disaster ?
Discussion
garyhun said:
MartG said:
McLaren are going to look awfully silly if they don't improve quickly
I think that horse has already bolted.And if RB/Newey/Honda win a championship within first couple of years, I think McLaren will be toast as a major F1 team, and will go the way of Williams.
Edited by aeropilot on Tuesday 19th June 11:25
Red Bull won't be a works team, they'll have equal status with Toro Rosso.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/136853/honda-red...
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/136853/honda-red...
I don't understand why Mclaren didn't fund Manor as B team to run the Honda for 3 years then take it over when it was developed, all they have done is 3 years of pain and very public development for Red Bull to reap the rewards. It was always going to take till year 5 to see them near the front.
McLaren must have known this, perhaps they have some further issues behind the scenes, now they still have a customer engine AND they've had to compromise last years great chassis to fit it in......what ARE they doing?
McLaren must have known this, perhaps they have some further issues behind the scenes, now they still have a customer engine AND they've had to compromise last years great chassis to fit it in......what ARE they doing?
aeropilot said:
Long gone over the horizon now, and they are still looking around inside the stable for the missing padlock for the door.....
And if RB/Newey/Honda win a championship within first couple of years, I think McLaren will be toast as a major F1 team, and will go the way of Williams.
I honestly think they have already gone that way.And if RB/Newey/Honda win a championship within first couple of years, I think McLaren will be toast as a major F1 team, and will go the way of Williams.
Edited by aeropilot on Tuesday 19th June 11:25
I know the owners have deep pockets but they must have such massive overheads now with the car production on the scale it is that just keeping the company afloat must be a big drain. Then to have a F1 team that can't even pay for itself, can't attract sponsors and are going backwards...... Williams had a diversified business portfolio, then acrimoniously split with their engine partner, went into the wilderness, took on customer engine deals, went backwards and then had to sell assets to keep the team running.
Mclaren have a diversified business portfolio too but can't be far from from that same point of having to sell assets - those amounts of overheads and a failing F1 team just cannot be sustainable. Surely?
MartG said:
McLaren are going to look awfully silly if they don't improve quickly
I understand that the decision to change to Renault was down to Alonso? He has a talent for changing teams just before they massively improve.He has not won a race since Spain 2013, I can't see him ever winning another race.
I’m not sure why McLaren are getting such a hard time. Every team in F1 are on a financial cliff edge and not doing very well. Ferrari and Mercedes are only winning because they have massive car Company’s like Daimler-Chrysler and Fiat & Ferrari funding you. Look at all the manufactures that scampered like Ford, BMW and Toyota. Even Red Bull might be leaving the sport because the owner threw is toys out the pram because they haven’t been winning with the consistency they used to. Where would Red Bull be without Newey?
F1 needs radical change so that cars are more unique, more engine suppliers and independent race teams.
No part of a formula one car is remotely associated with a road car so let’s stop trying to justify the sport with Hybrid Power. I would even suggest that F1 needs to diversify more from electric F1 to survive.
Make the cars simpler, tyres simpler, allow testing with actual cars and loose those massive Transformer VIP trucks in the paddock. The cooperate side must cost a fortune and all those tricks get replaced each year. Bonkers!
F1 needs radical change so that cars are more unique, more engine suppliers and independent race teams.
No part of a formula one car is remotely associated with a road car so let’s stop trying to justify the sport with Hybrid Power. I would even suggest that F1 needs to diversify more from electric F1 to survive.
Make the cars simpler, tyres simpler, allow testing with actual cars and loose those massive Transformer VIP trucks in the paddock. The cooperate side must cost a fortune and all those tricks get replaced each year. Bonkers!
Car-Matt said:
I don't understand why Mclaren didn't fund Manor as B team to run the Honda for 3 years then take it over when it was developed, all they have done is 3 years of pain and very public development for Red Bull to reap the rewards. It was always going to take till year 5 to see them near the front.
McLaren must have known this, perhaps they have some further issues behind the scenes, now they still have a customer engine AND they've had to compromise last years great chassis to fit it in......what ARE they doing?
What engine would they have used instead? Ron burnt the bridges with Mercedes, no chance of getting a Ferrari engine and I thought Red Bull were dead against the getting a Renault engine?McLaren must have known this, perhaps they have some further issues behind the scenes, now they still have a customer engine AND they've had to compromise last years great chassis to fit it in......what ARE they doing?
Car-Matt said:
I don't understand why Mclaren didn't fund Manor as B team to run the Honda for 3 years then take it over when it was developed, all they have done is 3 years of pain and very public development for Red Bull to reap the rewards. It was always going to take till year 5 to see them near the front.
In the case of Manor - after Jules' accident no-one wanted to take over Manor. Not because it was a bad team, they did a lot with few resources - but because of the potential liability of legal action against them. Vaud said:
Car-Matt said:
I don't understand why Mclaren didn't fund Manor as B team to run the Honda for 3 years then take it over when it was developed, all they have done is 3 years of pain and very public development for Red Bull to reap the rewards. It was always going to take till year 5 to see them near the front.
In the case of Manor - after Jules' accident no-one wanted to take over Manor. Not because it was a bad team, they did a lot with few resources - but because of the potential liability of legal action against them. Car-Matt said:
Vaud said:
Car-Matt said:
I don't understand why Mclaren didn't fund Manor as B team to run the Honda for 3 years then take it over when it was developed, all they have done is 3 years of pain and very public development for Red Bull to reap the rewards. It was always going to take till year 5 to see them near the front.
In the case of Manor - after Jules' accident no-one wanted to take over Manor. Not because it was a bad team, they did a lot with few resources - but because of the potential liability of legal action against them. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/maria-villota-m...
and
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2017/01/28/so-what...
Jumpingjackflash said:
I’m not sure why McLaren are getting such a hard time. Every team in F1 are on a financial cliff edge and not doing very well. Ferrari and Mercedes are only winning because they have massive car Company’s like Daimler-Chrysler and Fiat & Ferrari funding you. Look at all the manufactures that scampered like Ford, BMW and Toyota. Even Red Bull might be leaving the sport because the owner threw is toys out the pram because they haven’t been winning with the consistency they used to. Where would Red Bull be without Newey?
Some people do seem to be enjoying the problems McL are enduring. Why McL?I've been a fan of McL for years but have also enjoyed Williams' success. It is upsetting that both teams have fallen on hard times, but why the need to dig the knife in? And in particular, why to just one? Williams has the best engine on the grid yet was at the back of the grid for Canada, but nowhere does one see any glee at their situation. The phrase 'of course not' comes to mind so why should there be so similar 'of course not' for McL?
Up until their failure to finish in Canada, the team was fourth in the table and one of their drivers was 7th for the WDC. Whilst that is poor for McL it was still, quite obviously, the best of the rest.
Bewildering, especially so for an F1 fan.
Derek Smith said:
Some people do seem to be enjoying the problems McL are enduring. Why McL?
They spent all of last year claiming their chassis was wonderful and everything was Honda's fault... if they do that and then swap engines and their car is still garbage they deserve to be ridiculed.That they've got as many points as they have is down to a combination of luck (or other team's procedural incompetence) and Alonso's ability to drive the wheels of a dog of a car, IMO. It doesn't reflect the raw pace of the car.
ETA: Personally I don't want to see Mclaren do badly as such, I just want to see them end up behind the Honda engined cars next year.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 19th June 15:21
kambites said:
They spent all of last year claiming their chassis was wonderful and everything was Honda's fault... if they do that and then swap engines and their car is still garbage they deserve to be ridiculed.
That they've got as many points as they have is down to a combination of luck (or other team's procedural incompetence) and Alonso's ability to drive the wheels of a dog of a car, IMO. It doesn't reflect the raw pace of the car.
ETA: Personally I don't want to see Mclaren do badly as such, I just want to see them end up behind the Honda engined cars next year.
No, they did it a few times. Then everyone kept repeating it at every race. Any other team does basically the same - RB did much worse with Renault for example. That they've got as many points as they have is down to a combination of luck (or other team's procedural incompetence) and Alonso's ability to drive the wheels of a dog of a car, IMO. It doesn't reflect the raw pace of the car.
ETA: Personally I don't want to see Mclaren do badly as such, I just want to see them end up behind the Honda engined cars next year.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 19th June 15:21
I would also say a lot of the Honda improvement this season could be placed on Gasly, as he is doing far better than his team mate.
kambites said:
Derek Smith said:
Some people do seem to be enjoying the problems McL are enduring. Why McL?
They spent all of last year claiming their chassis was wonderful and everything was Honda's fault... if they do that and then swap engines and their car is still garbage they deserve to be ridiculed.That they've got as many points as they have is down to a combination of luck (or other team's procedural incompetence) and Alonso's ability to drive the wheels of a dog of a car, IMO. It doesn't reflect the raw pace of the car.
ETA: Personally I don't want to see Mclaren do badly as such, I just want to see them end up behind the Honda engined cars next year.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 19th June 15:21
a) Laughing his head off
b) Sad for all the work he put in
c) Too busy taking a spirit level to the paintings in his house
- BringBackRon
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