Honda - another disaster ?

[RumbleOfThunder]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129136...

Get to fk. I hope the other teams do the right thing and throw this toffee out. To think juggernauts like McLaren and Honda should be given a leg up is embarrassing.

[FourWheelDrift]

Easy fix, Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari engined cars have to do an extra race lap. Instant competitiveness for Honda.

[CraigyMc]

FourWheelDrift said:

Easy fix, Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari engined cars have to do an extra race lap. Instant competitiveness for Honda.

They could give Honda engined cars a lower weight limit - then the onus would be on McLaren to lighten what is already a light chassis compared to the peers.

[skwdenyer]

The "formula" seems deeply flawed; how is anyone to judge the McLaren chassis in comparison to others'? There is more than 0.3s between different teams using the same engine.

With a number of teams per engine the principle is sound-ish; but not here. I think it will be very hard to obtain consensus amongst the other teams for an aid package.

[thegreenhell]

Sauber are allegedly on the brink of signing up as a Honda customer for next year.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sauber-close-to...

[Frimley111R]

RumbleOfThunder said:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129136...

Get to fk. I hope the other teams do the right thing and throw this toffee out. To think juggernauts like McLaren and Honda should be given a leg up is embarrassing.

I want to see McLaren Honda doing better and be mostly equal but will the next thing be to help the other slow teams too? Where does it end?

[Teppic]

Three races in and Vandoorne has used three MGU-H's, and will take a fourth (revised) unit in Russia. After that, it's grid penalties!

Alonso is currently on his second MGU-H, and will take a third (revised) MGU-H in Russia.

[thegreenhell]

I think grid penalties are the least of their worries at the moment. They're so deep in the mire that they need to forget about penalties and just concentrate on developing the PU and treating each race weekend as a test. If that means bringing a new development to every race and taking a penalty as a result then so be it, if that's what it takes to get Honda up to speed. There are no development tokens in force this year so they can in theory bring an entirely new design to each race. 2017 is already a write-off for their championship hopes, so what do a few grid penalties matter?

[Crafty_]

I can't see FI / STR / Haas / Sauber and maybe even Williams being too keen to help, if McLaren get faster they'll be stealing points from them. McLaren chassis might not be up to Merc/Ferrari levels but its not terrible.

If they do get some breaks and improve I can see others asking for CFD / wind tunnel / test time to make up for it.

Possible that things will be done on the quiet to help.

I suspect Sauber taking the engines is financially motivated.

[aeropilot]

thegreenhell said:

I think grid penalties are the least of their worries at the moment. They're so deep in the mire that they need to forget about penalties and just concentrate on developing the PU and treating each race weekend as a test. If that means bringing a new development to every race and taking a penalty as a result then so be it, if that's what it takes to get Honda up to speed. There are no development tokens in force this year so they can in theory bring an entirely new design to each race. 2017 is already a write-off for their championship hopes, so what do a few grid penalties matter?

Would seem to be the logical course to take for this season to best prepare for next.

Bet they won't though.

[patmahe]

thegreenhell said:

I think grid penalties are the least of their worries at the moment. They're so deep in the mire that they need to forget about penalties and just concentrate on developing the PU and treating each race weekend as a test. If that means bringing a new development to every race and taking a penalty as a result then so be it, if that's what it takes to get Honda up to speed. There are no development tokens in force this year so they can in theory bring an entirely new design to each race. 2017 is already a write-off for their championship hopes, so what do a few grid penalties matter?

Exactly, if they are setting competitive lap times by the end of the season then at least the can build successfully for 2018. The real question is will McLaren still be a Honda Team next year or will they go back to Mercedes?

Could Sauber become the works team? Even with a decent engine I can't see Sauber building a chassis the would make it competitive. No disrespect intended to Sauber but it's a resources thing.

[DanielSan]

Sauber used to be the masters of building a building a brilliant chassis for not much cash even upto just 3 or 4 years ago, with Perez and Kobayashi in the car it was getting regular points and even the odd podium. Sadly their desperate need for cash has resulted in 0 development of what may well be a decent car to start with and also bringing in drivers with a massive bundle of cash but minimal talent rather than a slightly smaller bundle of cash and some ability.

[BigBen]

DanielSan said:

Sauber used to be the masters of building a building a brilliant chassis for not much cash even upto just 3 or 4 years ago, with Perez and Kobayashi in the car it was getting regular points and even the odd podium. Sadly their desperate need for cash has resulted in 0 development of what may well be a decent car to start with and also bringing in drivers with a massive bundle of cash but minimal talent rather than a slightly smaller bundle of cash and some ability.

With hindsight I am not convinced it was brilliant but was very very good on tyre wear so they could often do a stop less than anyone else without losing as much performance. Which I suppose does make it brilliant and but for a duff strategy call they could have won a race.

[hornetrider]

BBC Website said:

It was another difficult day for McLaren-Honda. Stoffel Vandoorne suffered an engine problem at the end of the first session which required a change of power-unit.

That has resulted in the Belgian receiving a 15-place grid penalty because he has already used too many of the six constituent parts of the engine. Vandoorne is now on his fifth turbocharger and fifth MGU-H, the part of the hybrid system that recovers energy from the turbo, when only four changes are permitted in the entire 20-round season.

How does the penalty system work this season? Does every failure from here on in sting SV with a massive grid penalty? If so it looks like he'll spend the entire season starting from the back of the grid - pretty demoralising.

[CraigyMc]

hornetrider said:

BBC Website said:

It was another difficult day for McLaren-Honda. Stoffel Vandoorne suffered an engine problem at the end of the first session which required a change of power-unit.

That has resulted in the Belgian receiving a 15-place grid penalty because he has already used too many of the six constituent parts of the engine. Vandoorne is now on his fifth turbocharger and fifth MGU-H, the part of the hybrid system that recovers energy from the turbo, when only four changes are permitted in the entire 20-round season.

How does the penalty system work this season? Does every failure from here on in sting SV with a massive grid penalty? If so it looks like he'll spend the entire season starting from the back of the grid - pretty demoralising.

The penalty system for going over the number of permitted components is the same; although the rules don't allow them to build up a stock of working components this year as they were previously able to (basically, if you use 3 new engines in a weekend this year, you're only allowed to take one of them forward).

Both the McLarens are going to spend all their time starting at the back.

By the way, "SV" is a poor acronym because of Sebastian Vettel and Stoff both having the same initials.

[Fortitude]

In the 'run up' to and the 'fall out' since the 2017 Russian Grand Prix;

McLaren sink deeper into biggest crisis in the once-proud team's history

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2017/04/28/mc...

Fernando Alonso: "Every weekend is the same"

https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/225552/fernando...

Honda To Ruin Sauber Like It Ruined McLaren

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/honda-will-ruin-saub...

Edited by Fortitude on Tuesday 2nd May 21:13

[cuprabob]

Formula 1: McLaren-Honda looking for gamer to become simulator driver - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/39811756

[GCH]

cuprabob said:

Formula 1: McLaren-Honda looking for gamer to become simulator driver - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/39811756

"As well as racing across a variety of gaming platforms, McLaren said entrants must demonstrate "engineering know-how, teamwork and the necessary mental and physical strengths""

Mc casting the net wide for a cheap Alonso replacement when he walks....

[glazbagun]

You know you're bad when you're employing someone for 30Million quid and it isn't enough to keep them! I'll feel a teeny bit for Alonso if Seb wins in a red car this season, but Fred can hardly complain about the money he's made. Is he the richest post-Scumi or would that be Lewis?

[poo at Paul's]

It managed 3 corners apparently this morning.

Way to go!