Proposed 'shield', halo alternative, unveiled
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
If you are going to elicit Star Trek technology, why not a force field?
Because the Star Trek reference was to the invention of transparent metal. The question was "what is strong enough for the job but still transparent?" and the answer to that question, when the Star Trek crew had time travelled back to the 20th Century, was for Scotty to "invent" transparent aluminium with a causal loop time paradox.
I thought it was an amusing little geeky reference to the what was being discussed and didn't warrant the sort of snide remark that you directed at it. But it's the kind of thing I'm sadly coming to expect from you these days, Eric. Especially on F1 threads.
Anyway, back to the halo, Alonso has just said an interesting thing.
He said "50 years ago the Formula One cars, they didn't have seat belts. You know, if it was today with the social media, it would create some debate. You know 'it is fun, you know, to watch the Formula One drivers moving in their seat and this is the pure Formula One, the DNA of Formula One'. This is not true. It is just a safety device"
He said "50 years ago the Formula One cars, they didn't have seat belts. You know, if it was today with the social media, it would create some debate. You know 'it is fun, you know, to watch the Formula One drivers moving in their seat and this is the pure Formula One, the DNA of Formula One'. This is not true. It is just a safety device"
ClockworkCupcake said:
Anyway, back to the halo, Alonso has just said an interesting thing.
He said "50 years ago the Formula One cars, they didn't have seat belts. You know, if it was today with the social media, it would create some debate. You know 'it is fun, you know, to watch the Formula One drivers moving in their seat and this is the pure Formula One, the DNA of Formula One'. This is not true. It is just a safety device"
I heard him say that and thought it was bHe said "50 years ago the Formula One cars, they didn't have seat belts. You know, if it was today with the social media, it would create some debate. You know 'it is fun, you know, to watch the Formula One drivers moving in their seat and this is the pure Formula One, the DNA of Formula One'. This is not true. It is just a safety device"
ks. 50 years ago drivers were being killed and hurt on a regular basis, today they aren't - the situations aren't comparable. The halo is chasing outliers on the statisical curve, the seatbelt was redefining the curve. In addition the spectators couldn't really see the seatbelt, it had no impact on them.
That being said, I'm pretty ambivalent about it - not bothered about the aesthetics and can see it causing as many safety issues as it solves.
Order66 said:
I heard him say that and thought it was bks. 50 years ago drivers were being killed and hurt on a regular basis, today they aren't - the situations aren't comparable.
The halo is chasing outliers on the statisical curve, the seatbelt was redefining the curve. In addition the spectators couldn't really see the seatbelt, it had no impact on them.
I don't disagree with you. You make a very fair point. ks. 50 years ago drivers were being killed and hurt on a regular basis, today they aren't - the situations aren't comparable. The halo is chasing outliers on the statisical curve, the seatbelt was redefining the curve. In addition the spectators couldn't really see the seatbelt, it had no impact on them.
Although Alonso is probably right in some ways - throughout the history of safety improvements in F1 there were plenty of people who said that drivers should just accept the risks.
Order66 said:
That being said, I'm pretty ambivalent about it - not bothered about the aesthetics and can see it causing as many safety issues as it solves.
Very true. I feel much the same. 
So now indy car come up with their version of a screen and the FIA all of a sudden want to work with indy car to develop it further. Looks ok as it is in this short clip, i can't see any distortion, bring it on i say
https://youtu.be/vzVjWy6pIX8
https://youtu.be/vzVjWy6pIX8
Doink said:
So now indy car come up with their version of a screen and the FIA all of a sudden want to work with indy car to develop it further. Looks ok as it is in this short clip, i can't see any distortion, bring it on i say
https://youtu.be/vzVjWy6pIX8
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=42&t=1724064https://youtu.be/vzVjWy6pIX8
Why do drivers have multiple layers of ripoff's on their visor, despite having aero deflectors that send most of the st over their head?
That's why this screen wont work in practice, chuck any oil, bugs or rain at it and it wont be such a great idea. WEC cars have there screen cleaned either manually or with huge ripoffs every pit stop, you would have to pit if someone blew up in front of you, assuming you made it that far.
Not sure how a screen will work in rain at night under floodlights, that tends to make vision very tricky.
t over their head?That's why this screen wont work in practice, chuck any oil, bugs or rain at it and it wont be such a great idea. WEC cars have there screen cleaned either manually or with huge ripoffs every pit stop, you would have to pit if someone blew up in front of you, assuming you made it that far.
Not sure how a screen will work in rain at night under floodlights, that tends to make vision very tricky.
jsf said:
Why do drivers have multiple layers of ripoff's on their visor, despite having aero deflectors that send most of the st over their head?
That's why this screen wont work in practice, chuck any oil, bugs or rain at it and it wont be such a great idea. WEC cars have there screen cleaned either manually or with huge ripoffs every pit stop, you would have to pit if someone blew up in front of you, assuming you made it that far.
Not sure how a screen will work in rain at night under floodlights, that tends to make vision very tricky.
LMP cars don’t pit any more frequently than F1 cars and they race over 24 hours with all the issues that low light, rain, muck and oil brings, not to mention dealing with big speed differentials between classes. Yes they have wipers but as we all know they are useless on an oily screen. They manage to cope though and I’m sure that these issues will be tested before any screen becomes mandated on an F1/Indycar. t over their head?That's why this screen wont work in practice, chuck any oil, bugs or rain at it and it wont be such a great idea. WEC cars have there screen cleaned either manually or with huge ripoffs every pit stop, you would have to pit if someone blew up in front of you, assuming you made it that far.
Not sure how a screen will work in rain at night under floodlights, that tends to make vision very tricky.
@JSF, I've always respected your posts, you obviously work within the motorsport industry but on this occasion I think your wrong, of course I agree in that if a car is leaking something them the screen will catch it but my point is so what, pit more often then, clean the screen as part of the pit stop, make pit stops a mandatory 5 secs so they don't rush and have time to clean the screen, anything is better than the halo. The point I was trying to make with that video link, sorry it was posted before, I did look but couldn't see it posted so I thought I'd be good to go, the point is the fia sided with the halo on the grounds that the curved screen caused distortion and made 'Vettel' dizzy, that's one driver and one team that sided with the fia, seb at the time wasn't flavour of the month with the fia when the announced they'd rejected the screen, something fishy there, secondly I can't see any distortion in that clip, where's this so called distortion?
I could well be wrong, the only way to find out is to run a GP length test. I know from my experience of F1 cars the helmets are in a right mess after 25 minutes, as are the deflection screens used to lift the air over the helmet. Even with the superb aero of modern F1 cars they still need tearoffs.
I can see a screen with high intensity overhead lights being a major problem, add some rain and it will be a pretty difficult thing to work with IMHO.
I can see a screen with high intensity overhead lights being a major problem, add some rain and it will be a pretty difficult thing to work with IMHO.
Its also worth noting, this years cars are going to be kicking fluids out the back, something they haven't done for decades.
For a long time its been mandatory to vent all breathers into the airbox, so they get burned by the engine rather than come out of the car onto the track or following cars.
This years rules have introduced a new rule that mandates all breather must exit out the back of the car.
"5.1.12 All power unit breather fluids may only vent to atmosphere and must pass through an orifice which is positioned rearward of the rear axle centre line and less than 400mm above the reference plane and less than 100mm from the car centre plane. No breather fluids may re-enter the power unit."
This rule is to stop the engine oil burning the teams were using to increase power.
If i were a team manager, i'd be overfilling the oil tank at the start of a race and engineer a coolant overflow system that blew coolant out on demand.
For a long time its been mandatory to vent all breathers into the airbox, so they get burned by the engine rather than come out of the car onto the track or following cars.
This years rules have introduced a new rule that mandates all breather must exit out the back of the car.
"5.1.12 All power unit breather fluids may only vent to atmosphere and must pass through an orifice which is positioned rearward of the rear axle centre line and less than 400mm above the reference plane and less than 100mm from the car centre plane. No breather fluids may re-enter the power unit."
This rule is to stop the engine oil burning the teams were using to increase power.
If i were a team manager, i'd be overfilling the oil tank at the start of a race and engineer a coolant overflow system that blew coolant out on demand.
But they triple stint in WEC sometimes in the middle of the night and you never hear complaints, sometimes the sun is low in the day time, again no complaints its the fault of the canopy, fit the aero screen with tear offs, its not beyond the wit of F1 engineers or designers to come up with something, we've put men on the moon, soon be on Mars, and your talking about what happens when it gets dirty..........well fecking clean it then!
It never fails to amaze and amuse when I see armchair experts claiming to out-think people who are not only experts in their field, but are amongst the best of them too.
I imagine that if anyone in F1 stumbles across this thread they will think "OMG! Some random poster on the internet has cracked the problem of dirt on the aero screen! We can ditch the halo now."
I imagine that if anyone in F1 stumbles across this thread they will think "OMG! Some random poster on the internet has cracked the problem of dirt on the aero screen! We can ditch the halo now."
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