The Official 2017 Monaco Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
Doink said:
Have I missed something here, I've read the article about teams supplying Pirelli with false data but why are Pirelli dictating what tyre pressures teams should run, surely it should be up to the teams what pressures they run to suit them, I am aware that because of the recent failures Pirelli increased the pressures to more than the teams wanted and a max camber angle so why now are Pirelli wanting to drop the pressures when teams are giving the false info in the hope they increase them
Pirelli define a lowest permissible pressure on safety grounds, based on the load information they have from all the teams.The FIA enforce that lowest limit. The teams generally run at the lowest permitted pressure because that's where the performance is.
It's to stop the teams from gaining competitive advantage by running even lower pressures, which are outwith the design criteria of the tyres and cause structural failures, seen over many years.
Basically it's performance versus safety, and the FIA have stepped in to enforce safety.
Cold said:
There have been driver complaints about the height and shape of some of the new kerbs around the swimming pool.
Link
The curbs are outside the race track, so the solution is simple. Or perhaps they should define the track limits at that point with armco, as with the rest of the track.Link
carinaman said:
Are the throttle loadings around Monaco likely to be kinder to the Honda powerplant? Will Jenson's motor make the finish line?
The Honda must be a lot more drivable now. The transmission jolts every time the drivers changed gear from early on in the season is gone, and the vibrations are under control and revs have come down to the normal range from Barcelona. Should be ok, and I hope I haven't jinxed it by saying this!Article said:
FORMULA 1 RESPONDS TO monger CRASH New car lift supports for all cars
The tragic accident of British Formula 4 driver Billy monger also has consequences for Formula One. To the GP Monaco, all cars had to be equipped with new, non-sharp car carriage supports. 24.05.2017 Michael Schmidt
On Wednesday after GP Spain, all Formula One teams received post from FIA security expert Laurent Meckies. Content: The teams had to convert their cars to GP Monaco. It was about the rear wagon brace that sits under the crash structure. It was in most cases in the form of a sharp-edged hook or a metal pin, into which the rear car jack could engage in the pit stop.
This was exactly the part of Billy monger's accident at the Formula 4 race on 16 April in Donington, the reason for the serious injuries that led to the amputation of both legs of the 17-year-old Englishman. The car support in the rear of the preceding car of the Finnish Patrik Pasma had slit the nose of the Mygale Ford by monger like a preservative and thereby overridden the function of the crash structure in the nose.
Metal pin slits nose
The FIA ??has thoroughly investigated Donington's Formula 4 accident, and found that this scenario could also be repeated in other racing events. Even in Formula 1, although the noses are significantly higher than in the Formula 4. This means that the legs are also higher in the carbon foot and would be subject to a lower risk of injury in the event of an impact in the rear of another vehicle.
The World Federation, however, does not want to let it go. Therefore, all teams were asked to modify their wagon supports in two points. The anchor point must no longer protrude beyond the rear crash structure. And it must not protrude more than 4.5 centimeters above the lower edge of the crust.
On Wednesday, Commissioner Jo Bauer checked all cars to see if they meet the new regulation. Mercedes was off the hook. There, the car lifted in a hollow under the rear crumple zone. The other teams have removed all sharp-edged hooks and cones, and the rear crash structure protected with a carbon shell instead. There the car lifts now.
https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/86737953101496...The tragic accident of British Formula 4 driver Billy monger also has consequences for Formula One. To the GP Monaco, all cars had to be equipped with new, non-sharp car carriage supports. 24.05.2017 Michael Schmidt
On Wednesday after GP Spain, all Formula One teams received post from FIA security expert Laurent Meckies. Content: The teams had to convert their cars to GP Monaco. It was about the rear wagon brace that sits under the crash structure. It was in most cases in the form of a sharp-edged hook or a metal pin, into which the rear car jack could engage in the pit stop.
This was exactly the part of Billy monger's accident at the Formula 4 race on 16 April in Donington, the reason for the serious injuries that led to the amputation of both legs of the 17-year-old Englishman. The car support in the rear of the preceding car of the Finnish Patrik Pasma had slit the nose of the Mygale Ford by monger like a preservative and thereby overridden the function of the crash structure in the nose.
Metal pin slits nose
The FIA ??has thoroughly investigated Donington's Formula 4 accident, and found that this scenario could also be repeated in other racing events. Even in Formula 1, although the noses are significantly higher than in the Formula 4. This means that the legs are also higher in the carbon foot and would be subject to a lower risk of injury in the event of an impact in the rear of another vehicle.
The World Federation, however, does not want to let it go. Therefore, all teams were asked to modify their wagon supports in two points. The anchor point must no longer protrude beyond the rear crash structure. And it must not protrude more than 4.5 centimeters above the lower edge of the crust.
On Wednesday, Commissioner Jo Bauer checked all cars to see if they meet the new regulation. Mercedes was off the hook. There, the car lifted in a hollow under the rear crumple zone. The other teams have removed all sharp-edged hooks and cones, and the rear crash structure protected with a carbon shell instead. There the car lifts now.
CraigyMc said:
Doink said:
Have I missed something here, I've read the article about teams supplying Pirelli with false data but why are Pirelli dictating what tyre pressures teams should run, surely it should be up to the teams what pressures they run to suit them, I am aware that because of the recent failures Pirelli increased the pressures to more than the teams wanted and a max camber angle so why now are Pirelli wanting to drop the pressures when teams are giving the false info in the hope they increase them
Pirelli define a lowest permissible pressure on safety grounds, based on the load information they have from all the teams.The FIA enforce that lowest limit. The teams generally run at the lowest permitted pressure because that's where the performance is.
It's to stop the teams from gaining competitive advantage by running even lower pressures, which are outwith the design criteria of the tyres and cause structural failures, seen over many years.
Basically it's performance versus safety, and the FIA have stepped in to enforce safety.
Doink said:
I get that but now the teams are feeding duff data to Pirelli in order to get them to increase the limit so how does work with your explanation, it's the total opposite when its lower pressures the teams always pushes for. Only last season drivers were complaining of pressures being increased yet this season they're pushing for it to point of feeding Pirelli false info to do it
If (and its far from proven) the story is correct its only Merc feeding them info for high loads, this is all because the car struggles to generate proper tyre temperature. By increasing tyre pressure its easier to generate higher temperatures and thus get the tyre in to a decent working window.Teams will do whatever they need to, so if that means 15 psi last year and 20psi this year they'll do it.
Also, keep in mind that last year Pirelli were setting the pressures artificially high because of the games being played to lower pressures during the race. The complaints that we heard last year were all about them being artificial. As we have new tyres this year to some extent the reset button has been pushed and they are back to relatively normal pressures this year.
What I don't get is that the pressure Pirelli set are only minimums, if Merc wanted to run 30psi they could. I can only presume that they believe higher pressures will hurt Ferrari ? all assuming the story is true...
Teams are taking on T wings. Red Bull:
Renault may be going for a triple ?
Sauber have gone for one in the Shark fin and another on the sidepod:
Mercedes are struggling to balance the tyre temps. The rears (I think) are getting hotter than the fronts.. Therefore in order to get the fronts to work the rears are over-working.. So they are in quite a pickle - 'no' front grip or trash the rears... Damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Kimi seems to be struggling (relatively)
JB seems to be slowly easing himself in to the car and track... Just wonder if he will constantly be playing catch up over the weekend and would have benefited from that test at Barcelona - just to get used to the new procedures and buttons in the car.. 'possible inadvertent button press...' a moment ago! Still early doors.
Toro Rossos going really well.
JB seems to be slowly easing himself in to the car and track... Just wonder if he will constantly be playing catch up over the weekend and would have benefited from that test at Barcelona - just to get used to the new procedures and buttons in the car.. 'possible inadvertent button press...' a moment ago! Still early doors.
Toro Rossos going really well.
eps said:
Kimi seems to be struggling (relatively)
I wonder who Ferrari have pre-agreements with...Ocon looks very promising. The two RB drivers might be expensive/impossible to dislodge for 2018. Alonso - maybe under the new guard.
I'd go for Ocon based on what I have seen this year, if he is available (and FI do need money)
Vaud said:
I wonder who Ferrari have pre-agreements with...
Ocon looks very promising. The two RB drivers might be expensive/impossible to dislodge for 2018. Alonso - maybe under the new guard.
I'd go for Ocon based on what I have seen this year, if he is available (and FI do need money)
Ocon looks good but I wouldn't overlook the more experienced Perez for him. I'd rather see he, Hulkenberg, Saintz or Grosjean in the Ferrari.Ocon looks very promising. The two RB drivers might be expensive/impossible to dislodge for 2018. Alonso - maybe under the new guard.
I'd go for Ocon based on what I have seen this year, if he is available (and FI do need money)
Vaud said:
eps said:
Kimi seems to be struggling (relatively)
I wonder who Ferrari have pre-agreements with...Ocon looks very promising. The two RB drivers might be expensive/impossible to dislodge for 2018. Alonso - maybe under the new guard.
I'd go for Ocon based on what I have seen this year, if he is available (and FI do need money)
Ocon - I thought he was Renault or Merc signed up? He does seem to be pushing Perez - but I've never really rated Perez.
I still like Wherlein, but I guess that Ericsson is an 'easier' team mate to beat.
Although of course it's still only FP1 - lots of rubber to go down on the track before Sunday...!
https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2017/race...
HustleRussell said:
Ocon looks good but I wouldn't overlook the more experienced Perez for him. I'd rather see he, Hulkenberg, Saintz or Grosjean in the Ferrari.
Perez is quick, but IIRC he had problems in a high pressure environment - more relaxed at FI so performing. Sainz - I agree, another possibility.
Grosjean has been disappointing recently. He isn't the brilliant driver that we saw 2 years back.
Vaud said:
I wonder who Ferrari have pre-agreements with...
Ocon looks very promising. The two RB drivers might be expensive/impossible to dislodge for 2018. Alonso - maybe under the new guard.
I'd go for Ocon based on what I have seen this year, if he is available (and FI do need money)
IF Alonso were to return to Ferrari, then you can be sure that McLaren would (somehow) become the best car on track next year!Ocon looks very promising. The two RB drivers might be expensive/impossible to dislodge for 2018. Alonso - maybe under the new guard.
I'd go for Ocon based on what I have seen this year, if he is available (and FI do need money)
On a serious note, if Alonso leaves who will be in his seat at McLaren?
Crafty_ said:
What I don't get is that the pressure Pirelli set are only minimums, if Merc wanted to run 30psi they could. I can only presume that they believe higher pressures will hurt Ferrari ? all assuming the story is true...
I might be seeing things. But we saw Merc have a much bigger advantage on high pressures, when they were lowered, Ferrari closed right up... maybe my memory is clouded.I get the impression that the Merc is more tolerant of high pressure. So maybe they're pushing for even more "safety" as that seems to hurt the Ferrari?
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