The Official 2017 Monaco Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
Who saw this?
Rosberg's sudden retirement seems to have gone pretty well for him.
Toto said:
Engineering input
One other thing that Wolff has noticed about Rosberg's absence this year is that it has changed the level of engineering input from drivers – which had been one of the German's core strengths.
"Nico played a very important role in the development of the team," added Wolff. "He was pushing Lewis to the limits, and the two of them were pushing each other and therefore scoring very good results for us.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-hamilton-different-person-rosberg-quit-910749/One other thing that Wolff has noticed about Rosberg's absence this year is that it has changed the level of engineering input from drivers – which had been one of the German's core strengths.
"Nico played a very important role in the development of the team," added Wolff. "He was pushing Lewis to the limits, and the two of them were pushing each other and therefore scoring very good results for us.
Rosberg's sudden retirement seems to have gone pretty well for him.
ukaskew said:
rallycross said:
Had Button been allowed to start from 9th and done well it would have generated loads of good (and valuable) press coverage for F1 and F1 needs some positive stories.
Agreed, I was thinking about this earlier. Button returning was quite a big thing (even outside the UK) yet 'F1' has just shot itself in the foot in terms of a potentially great wide reaching story.Barely a quarter of the way into the season and already we're talking about engine limits being reached and the annoying penalties that brings. Got to be a better way.
A bit of a contrast with Alonso at Indy, it's not even raceday yet but they've really made the most of it.
With that said, I've had the opinion for some time that component penalties shouldn't be affecting the WDC.
I think docking WCC points would be better.
The counter argument is that its a team sport - if the driver makes a mistake and crashes the team are losing WCC points. If the team fail to provide a car that can do race distance without engine changes etc the driver loses WDC points, so it kind of cancels each other out.
That argument falls a bit flat in this circumstance though, when the driver in for one race is affected by the team's performance in earlier races. Not much of a two way street there.
Obviously, you can't reasonably change the rule during the season but I hope they look at it for the future.
Obviously, you can't reasonably change the rule during the season but I hope they look at it for the future.
768 said:
That argument falls a bit flat in this circumstance though, when the driver in for one race is affected by the team's performance in earlier races. Not much of a two way street there.
Obviously, you can't reasonably change the rule during the season but I hope they look at it for the future.
It's an odd situation with button though really, Obviously, you can't reasonably change the rule during the season but I hope they look at it for the future.
The rules could be more flexible in this kind of situation though. He's not exactly going to compete in the drivers championship.
It's a show and the show is improved by getting JB in for a race but then kind of ruined by applying rigid penalties. The new owners are all about letting drivers race, partly by increasing stewards discretion. I don't really feel Buttons penalty is in the interests of the fans.
Deduction of WCC points would have been a better solution in my view.
El stovey said:
It's an odd situation with button though really,
The rules could be more flexible in this kind of situation though. He's not exactly going to compete in the drivers championship.
It's a show and the show is improved by getting JB in for a race but then kind of ruined by applying rigid penalties. The new owners are all about letting drivers race, partly by increasing stewards discretion. I don't really feel Buttons penalty is in the interests of the fans.
Deduction of WCC points would have been a better solution in my view.
Sure, but you can't change the rules mid season for one driver in one (fringe) scenario on the weekend.The rules could be more flexible in this kind of situation though. He's not exactly going to compete in the drivers championship.
It's a show and the show is improved by getting JB in for a race but then kind of ruined by applying rigid penalties. The new owners are all about letting drivers race, partly by increasing stewards discretion. I don't really feel Buttons penalty is in the interests of the fans.
Deduction of WCC points would have been a better solution in my view.
They could maybe have agreed a waiver with the other teams unanimous agreement? But teams like Sauber are unlikely to agree...
768 said:
That argument falls a bit flat in this circumstance though, when the driver in for one race is affected by the team's performance in earlier races. Not much of a two way street there.
Obviously, you can't reasonably change the rule during the season but I hope they look at it for the future.
If a driver is only doing one race why bother to change the rules ? Obviously, you can't reasonably change the rule during the season but I hope they look at it for the future.
Its unfair on those teams that are doing a full season that would have to comply with the rules. For example, lets say that STR get a penalty in Spa for engine changes - if McLaren don't get one here, why should STR get one in Spa ?
If you introduce rules that allow driver swaps to wipe out penalties someone will swap drivers as much as possible to avoid penalties.
The issue is having penalties for engine swaps at all imho. The idea was to cost cut, it'd be interesting to find out if it actually has reduced costs or not.
ClockworkCupcake said:
Exactly. It you introduce loopholes then teams will game them. Make an exception for driver swaps and next thing you know some teams will be playing driver Hokey Cokey.
Just introduce WCC penalty for driver swaps, unless they're medically unfit. Basically, I like Button and don't want to see him have to start at the back.
Crafty_ said:
768 said:
That argument falls a bit flat in this circumstance though, when the driver in for one race is affected by the team's performance in earlier races. Not much of a two way street there.
Obviously, you can't reasonably change the rule during the season but I hope they look at it for the future.
If a driver is only doing one race why bother to change the rules ? Obviously, you can't reasonably change the rule during the season but I hope they look at it for the future.
Its unfair on those teams that are doing a full season that would have to comply with the rules. For example, lets say that STR get a penalty in Spa for engine changes - if McLaren don't get one here, why should STR get one in Spa ?
If you introduce rules that allow driver swaps to wipe out penalties someone will swap drivers as much as possible to avoid penalties.
The issue is having penalties for engine swaps at all imho. The idea was to cost cut, it'd be interesting to find out if it actually has reduced costs or not.
I haven't suggested anything that would mean McLaren wouldn't get a penalty here and another team would elsewhere. That would be just as bad.
768 said:
The reason to change the rules is that the fans and ultimately F1 are losing out on this situation.
I haven't suggested anything that would mean McLaren wouldn't get a penalty here and another team would elsewhere. That would be just as bad.
Explain how fans are missing out on this occasion compared to the penalties Lewis got last year ? or the penalties Vettel will end up with at the end of this season ?I haven't suggested anything that would mean McLaren wouldn't get a penalty here and another team would elsewhere. That would be just as bad.
I don't think F1 is missing anything - retired racer comes back for a one off. Big deal.
There is a certain amount of Button bias going on, that doesn't warrant ignoring rules "just because".
The car only has a 50% chance of making it to the end of the race anyway.
768 said:
The reason to change the rules is that the fans and ultimately F1 are losing out on this situation.
Yep this is what I was getting at. I'm not saying anything could have changed specifically for this weekend, but that fundamentally they should find a better way of managing the engine penalty situation without penalising the fans.Button coming back is a big deal for the sport, I was away yesterday but my wife watched Quali on her own, that's unheard of in 20 years of me watching F1. She excitedly told me he was 9th but was then gutted when I told her he'd be at the back.
Constructors points seems like a fair alternative. Race to race that doesn't really hold much interest for the majority of fans, but it's a fairly serious penalty for the teams so wouldn't/couldn't be gamed in any way.
Edited by ukaskew on Sunday 28th May 10:05
Crafty_ said:
Explain how fans are missing out on this occasion compared to the penalties Lewis got last year ? or the penalties Vettel will end up with at the end of this season ?
It's a bit different simply because Button is taking a 15 place grid penalty for engines he hasn't driven with. But, say, docking WCC points in future seasons would apply there too so I'm not sure why it matters.Crafty_ said:
I don't think F1 is missing anything - retired racer comes back for a one off. Big deal.
That's fine, it's your subjective view. But others take a different view. There's been a bit of media coverage.Crafty_ said:
There is a certain amount of Button bias going on, that doesn't warrant ignoring rules "just because".
Again, I don't think anyone has suggested ignoring rules, or "just because".Crafty_ said:
The car only has a 50% chance of making it to the end of the race anyway.
Agreed. All the more reason not to deny an underdog a moment in the sun.768 said:
Crafty_ said:
Explain how fans are missing out on this occasion compared to the penalties Lewis got last year ? or the penalties Vettel will end up with at the end of this season ?
It's a bit different simply because Button is taking a 15 place grid penalty for engines he hasn't driven with. But, say, docking WCC points in future seasons would apply there too so I'm not sure why it matters.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff