Kubica back in an F1 car

[AndStilliRise]

Sa Calobra said:

When Williams go with two U25's we'll know it was a desperate advertising gimmick to keep them in the press. Kubica deserves better.

Williams we're a top team many many years ago. Karma bit them when they ditched Damon.

Yep I agree, they have had many good drivers since then, Ralf Schumacher, JPM, Webber and they all get treated badly. Perhaps it is a Williams.

[HustleRussell]

Sa Calobra said:

When Williams go with two U25's we'll know it was a desperate advertising gimmick to keep them in the press.

Well that's a load of rubbish isn't it.

[corozin]

Sa Calobra said:

When Williams go with two U25's we'll know it was a desperate advertising gimmick to keep them in the press. Kubica deserves better.

Williams we're a top team many many years ago. Karma bit them when they ditched Damon.

My recollection is more that having been helped to a World Championship by a team which had provided him with undisputedly the best car on the grid, Damon decided he was suddenly worth a hell of a lot more money for the following season - and Williams disagreed. SO it wasn't like they ditched him, and more like he priced himself out of a second World Championship.

[anonymous-user]

corozin said:

My recollection is more that having been helped to a World Championship by a team which had provided him with undisputedly the best car on the grid, Damon decided he was suddenly worth a hell of a lot more money for the following season - and Williams disagreed. SO it wasn't like they ditched him, and more like he priced himself out of a second World Championship.

The results post his leaving the team suggest he was worth paying properly.

[thegreenhell]

I think Williams had already decided to replace him with Frentzen when Damon failed to win the 95 championship, so it was already out of his hands long before his WDC win 96.

[MartG]

jsf said:

corozin said:

My recollection is more that having been helped to a World Championship by a team which had provided him with undisputedly the best car on the grid, Damon decided he was suddenly worth a hell of a lot more money for the following season - and Williams disagreed. SO it wasn't like they ditched him, and more like he priced himself out of a second World Championship.

The results post his leaving the team suggest he was worth paying properly.

And the very fact that he was WDC made him worth more than the very low ( allegedly ) salary Williams had been paying him

[anonymous-user]

thegreenhell said:

I think Williams had already decided to replace him with Frentzen when Damon failed to win the 95 championship, so it was already out of his hands long before his WDC win 96.

They may have done, but they didn't tell Damon that, which left him scrabbling for a job at the end of 96. Pretty stty way to treat your team leader, especially when he was the guy who motivated the team and kept them together when Senna died.

Williams have always treated their drivers with little respect. I've never understood it.

[MartG]

jsf said:

thegreenhell said:

I think Williams had already decided to replace him with Frentzen when Damon failed to win the 95 championship, so it was already out of his hands long before his WDC win 96.

They may have done, but they didn't tell Damon that, which left him scrabbling for a job at the end of 96. Pretty stty way to treat your team leader, especially when he was the guy who motivated the team and kept them together when Senna died.

Williams have always treated their drivers with little respect. I've never understood it.

I've heard it said that Sir Frank regards the drivers as merely another employee, irrespective of their talent and 'star' status

[thegreenhell]

jsf said:

thegreenhell said:

I think Williams had already decided to replace him with Frentzen when Damon failed to win the 95 championship, so it was already out of his hands long before his WDC win 96.

They may have done, but they didn't tell Damon that, which left him scrabbling for a job at the end of 96. Pretty stty way to treat your team leader, especially when he was the guy who motivated the team and kept them together when Senna died.

Williams have always treated their drivers with little respect. I've never understood it.

Yes, I don't doubt this.

For me, Damon showed his true class, and worth as a development driver, in 97 when went from just barely qualifying the Arrows at the first race in Australia to almost winning the Hungarian GP.

[DanielSan]

jsf said:

They may have done, but they didn't tell Damon that, which left him scrabbling for a job at the end of 96. Pretty stty way to treat your team leader, especially when he was the guy who motivated the team and kept them together when Senna died.

Williams have always treated their drivers with little respect. I've never understood it.

Sir Frank and possibly even more Sir Patrick’s belief especially through the 80’s and 90’s were that the car was good enough to win no matter who was in it. Let’s face it Villeneuve bagged a WDC so they may have been right to a point

[anonymous-user]

DanielSan said:

Sir Frank and possibly even more Sir Patrick’s belief especially through the 80’s and 90’s were that the car was good enough to win no matter who was in it. Let’s face it Villeneuve bagged a WDC so they may have been right to a point

Ouch LOL.... very true in some ways!

[Jonesy23]

MartG said:

jsf said:

thegreenhell said:

I think Williams had already decided to replace him with Frentzen when Damon failed to win the 95 championship, so it was already out of his hands long before his WDC win 96.

They may have done, but they didn't tell Damon that, which left him scrabbling for a job at the end of 96. Pretty stty way to treat your team leader, especially when he was the guy who motivated the team and kept them together when Senna died.

Williams have always treated their drivers with little respect. I've never understood it.

I've heard it said that Sir Frank regards the drivers as merely another employee, irrespective of their talent and 'star' status

I suspect that the experience he had when he had a driver die in one of his cars who was also a friend meant he was never going to risk getting too close to anyone else in that position.

Not that the experience around what happened with Senna was exactly fun but Piers Courage was properly shattering. Being stand-offish with drivers after that is understandable.

And beyond that point they really are just another employee, paid to achieve an end for the team. A highly paid, famous employee, but an employee all the same. The team is what really matters.

[AndStilliRise]

Jonesy23 said:

MartG said:

jsf said:

thegreenhell said:

I think Williams had already decided to replace him with Frentzen when Damon failed to win the 95 championship, so it was already out of his hands long before his WDC win 96.

They may have done, but they didn't tell Damon that, which left him scrabbling for a job at the end of 96. Pretty stty way to treat your team leader, especially when he was the guy who motivated the team and kept them together when Senna died.

Williams have always treated their drivers with little respect. I've never understood it.

I've heard it said that Sir Frank regards the drivers as merely another employee, irrespective of their talent and 'star' status

I suspect that the experience he had when he had a driver die in one of his cars who was also a friend meant he was never going to risk getting too close to anyone else in that position.

Not that the experience around what happened with Senna was exactly fun but Piers Courage was properly shattering. Being stand-offish with drivers after that is understandable.

And beyond that point they really are just another employee, paid to achieve an end for the team. A highly paid, famous employee, but an employee all the same. The team is what really matters.

Seems to work out well for them.

[WilsonWilson]

AndStilliRise said:

Yep I agree, they have had many good drivers since then, Ralf Schumacher, JPM, Webber and they all get treated badly. Perhaps it is a Williams.

And two drivers who went on to become champions.

[rubystone]

corozin said:

My recollection is more that having been helped to a World Championship by a team which had provided him with undisputedly the best car on the grid, Damon decided he was suddenly worth a hell of a lot more money for the following season - and Williams disagreed. SO it wasn't like they ditched him, and more like he priced himself out of a second World Championship.

Your recollection is wrong, with respect.

Even though he’s suffering from dementia now, FW still comes into Grove every day and I’m sure his influence is still felt there. Having said that, there’s no doubt that Claire has a substantially different attitude to her father when it comes to the treatment of the team’s drivers too.

[HighwayStar]

thegreenhell said:

I think Williams had already decided to replace him with Frentzen when Damon failed to win the 95 championship, so it was already out of his hands long before his WDC win 96.

This is fairly much it, i read it somewhere... Damon had the beating of Schumacher in ‘95 but was too eager in many of the races and crashed or left the track. WDC to
Schey. In ‘96 Damon got his sh!t together and won the championship but Frentzen was already signed. With Damon delivering Frank regretted letting go but it was too late. The biggest regret was not letting Newey have a piece of the company.

[AndStilliRise]

HighwayStar said:

thegreenhell said:

I think Williams had already decided to replace him with Frentzen when Damon failed to win the 95 championship, so it was already out of his hands long before his WDC win 96.

This is fairly much it, i read it somewhere... Damon had the beating of Schumacher in ‘95 but was too eager in many of the races and crashed or left the track. WDC to
Schey. In ‘96 Damon got his sh!t together and won the championship but Frentzen was already signed. With Damon delivering Frank regretted letting go but it was too late. The biggest regret was not letting Newey have a piece of the company.

I agree, some awful choices. Some of them I feel are 'just because' rather than actually thinking about them. Why would you let your start WDC driver go in favour of someone who had not driven a F1 car, put it on pole or had won a race.

Does anyone know what the 97 Williams was like, would they have won anymore races with DH?

[glazbagun]

Jv won the next wdc so I'm guessing Hill could too.

[DanielSan]

I think it was Melbourne 97 where Villeneuve was on pole by 1.7 seconds from Frentzen in second and over 2 seconds ahead of the next quickest car. It was damn fast, Frentzen just proved to be not quite the mega fast driver Frank thought he would be.

If they’d left Hill in that car for 97 I don’t think it would’ve gone down to a final round battle between him and Villeneuve/Schumacher, he may well have had it done and dusted before Jerez.

[HighwayStar]

DanielSan said:

I think it was Melbourne 97 where Villeneuve was on pole by 1.7 seconds from Frentzen in second and over 2 seconds ahead of the next quickest car. It was damn fast, Frentzen just proved to be not quite the mega fast driver Frank thought he would be.

If they’d left Hill in that car for 97 I don’t think it would’ve gone down to a final round battle between him and Villeneuve/Schumacher, he may well have had it done and dusted before Jerez.

Definitely..
I think if Williams hadn't been so hasty, maybe had an option on Frentzen to sign if Damon dropped the ball again instead of presuming he would, Damon with a WDC under his belt and knowledge of how to win a championship would've won in '97 in real style.