F1 owners say UK paywall TV deal they have inherited is detr
Discussion
bobbo89 said:
I've been saying this on every one of these threads but If you really want to watch a race live and you've got an old redundant Sky dish, point it at Astra 1 with a cheap sat box and away you go watching it on RTL!
I normally watch the F1 while away via RTL as most European hotels have this channel but it is dire. Firstly, I don't speak German so it's just noise and oh my god the adverts!! It seems every few minutes it cuts to a break that lasts forever. Ahh, I hear you cry, you can use the Radio5 commentary alongside and mute the Germans. Well yes but there's a 5 second delay which means you are out of sync with what you are seeing and when it's kicking off, a lot gets lost plus they cut to tennis or cricket updates seemingly every 5 minutes.
Plus today, the feed from Azerbaijan was lost half way through.
Derek Smith said:
LM will probably want to sell the sport on within a few seasons and for that they will need a worthwhile product. I would assume that this will include a plan for the future.
Not sure I agree with you there, they've said repeatedly that "we're in it for the long haul". The very steady approach they're taking before deciding what to change makes me inclined to believe them.C70R said:
As a self-professed 'leaver' of the sport, I welcome the absence of your contributions here. Persistent negativity, thread derailment and nitpicking are the last thing anyone wants to see on a discussion forum. Don't let the door hit your backside on the way out.
ETA - As usual, you're probably wrong in your analysis of why the figures are declining, because it's anything but unique to motorsport: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analysis-puttin...
It's always good debating only with those you agree with, isn't it. ETA - As usual, you're probably wrong in your analysis of why the figures are declining, because it's anything but unique to motorsport: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analysis-puttin...
Edited by C70R on Sunday 25th June 22:58
What a pointless comment.
I don't WANT to be negative. It's the sport that's changing, not me.
At no point did I say that the decline in interest in F1 was in any way unique. Indeed, it supports my point - people's interests are changing. What is probably more relevant is those who were once VERY enthusuiastic are far less enthusiastic now - and that is crystal clear.
And furthermore, based on what happened in yesterday's race, my reduction in interest is seemingly justified - what a farce.
Edited by Eric Mc on Monday 26th June 07:32
Eric Mc said:
C70R said:
As a self-professed 'leaver' of the sport, I welcome the absence of your contributions here. Persistent negativity, thread derailment and nitpicking are the last thing anyone wants to see on a discussion forum. Don't let the door hit your backside on the way out.
ETA - As usual, you're probably wrong in your analysis of why the figures are declining, because it's anything but unique to motorsport: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analysis-puttin...
It's always good debating only with those you agree with, isn't it. ETA - As usual, you're probably wrong in your analysis of why the figures are declining, because it's anything but unique to motorsport: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analysis-puttin...
Edited by C70R on Sunday 25th June 22:58
What a pointless comment.
I don't WANT to be negative. It's the sport that's changing, not me.
At no point did I say that the decline in interest in F1 was in any way unique. Indeed, it supports my point - people's interests are changing. What is probably more relevant is those who were once VERY enthusuiastic are far less enthusiastic now - and that is crystal clear.
And furthermore, based on what happened in yesterday's race, my reduction in interest is seemingly justified - what a farce.
Edited by Eric Mc on Monday 26th June 07:32
You made the assertion that changes in car culture and what excites people is causing the decline in viewing figures. Given that it's the same across almost all major sports, that's simply untrue. It's a change in the way that people are consuming media/sports, and nothing obviously intrinsic to F1 (as much as you'd like it to be, so it fits with your negative narrative).
Eric Mc said:
C70R said:
As a self-professed 'leaver' of the sport, I welcome the absence of your contributions here. Persistent negativity, thread derailment and nitpicking are the last thing anyone wants to see on a discussion forum. Don't let the door hit your backside on the way out.
ETA - As usual, you're probably wrong in your analysis of why the figures are declining, because it's anything but unique to motorsport: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analysis-puttin...
It's always good debating only with those you agree with, isn't it. ETA - As usual, you're probably wrong in your analysis of why the figures are declining, because it's anything but unique to motorsport: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analysis-puttin...
Edited by C70R on Sunday 25th June 22:58
What a pointless comment.
I don't WANT to be negative. It's the sport that's changing, not me.
At no point did I say that the decline in interest in F1 was in any way unique. Indeed, it supports my point - people's interests are changing. What is probably more relevant is those who were once VERY enthusuiastic are far less enthusiastic now - and that is crystal clear.
And furthermore, based on what happened in yesterday's race, my reduction in interest is seemingly justified - what a farce.
Edited by Eric Mc on Monday 26th June 07:32
The options that we have now available where we have a choice of what we do with our spare time and the things that interest us are the greatest they've ever been.
All media entities are struggling with the issue of viewership. Live broadcasts of content is declining pretty much everywhere. Even those who were considered 'die hards' have other interests.
I do think that all avenues of viewship will need to be looked at going forward as the world is changing and the traditional models aren't going to cut it.
I'm entitled to be negative up until the point where something genuinely positive happens in F1. There is so much to be negative about - sadly.
The fact that the sport is dying on its feet demonstrates to me that my views are shared by many. It pains me to be like this. Motor sport and F1 has been one of my passions for half a century now. They've screwed up the sport I loved - and I'm pretty angry about it.
The good news is that it may encourage me to follow other motor sports which have lingered in teh shadow of F1 for decades. I really enjoyed both the Indy 500 and Le Mans 24 hour races this year. All is not lost.
And I'll be going to a local hillclimb in a few weeks. So I am diverting my motor sport interests into other areas - whilst F1 withers away to meaningless nothing - which is what it deserves unless it sorts itself out.
The fact that the sport is dying on its feet demonstrates to me that my views are shared by many. It pains me to be like this. Motor sport and F1 has been one of my passions for half a century now. They've screwed up the sport I loved - and I'm pretty angry about it.
The good news is that it may encourage me to follow other motor sports which have lingered in teh shadow of F1 for decades. I really enjoyed both the Indy 500 and Le Mans 24 hour races this year. All is not lost.
And I'll be going to a local hillclimb in a few weeks. So I am diverting my motor sport interests into other areas - whilst F1 withers away to meaningless nothing - which is what it deserves unless it sorts itself out.
Norfolkit said:
Derek Smith said:
LM will probably want to sell the sport on within a few seasons and for that they will need a worthwhile product. I would assume that this will include a plan for the future.
Not sure I agree with you there, they've said repeatedly that "we're in it for the long haul". The very steady approach they're taking before deciding what to change makes me inclined to believe them.But keep it or sell it, I reckon they must increase viewership in particular areas and make the racing more attractive. The younger generation need to be got on board.
I watch recordings of the 'old days' and enjoy the races thoroughly. I read about them and will be off to Silverstone Classic and GFoS to dribble over the cars. However, even I will say that the old ways are not financially viable in the present climate. Mind you, nor were the 'old ways' of just a few years ago when all motor racing was left to rot in favour of the one product.
I see a lot of the old style of racing in WEC. Further, the massive grids add interest as there is always something going on.
I've got great hopes for LM and for the future of F1. It might not, probably will not, be what I would have chosen, but I can accept that I'm probably not their target audience.
I have followed Eric's posts not only on Pistonheads, but on Blatchat for many years. To me he is the best example of the old adage that there are two things that people will never forgive you for: being clever, and being right.
While reading down this page I was starting to reflect that the stand out events for me this season have been the Indy 500 and Le Mans. And then I get to his last post and he has said it for me.
OK, yesterday's "event" kept me glued to the telly all yesterday afternoon, but sport it was not. My own interest in motorsport goes back to my childhood, and I can even remember how shocked I was when Mike Hawthorn died, and Stirling Moss almost did at Goodwood. And I have seen a few ups and downs over the years. But what gets to me today is the contrast between the incredible skill and bravery of the drivers, as well as the ingenuity of the technology, and the tawdry ends to which it is all put to use.
While reading down this page I was starting to reflect that the stand out events for me this season have been the Indy 500 and Le Mans. And then I get to his last post and he has said it for me.
OK, yesterday's "event" kept me glued to the telly all yesterday afternoon, but sport it was not. My own interest in motorsport goes back to my childhood, and I can even remember how shocked I was when Mike Hawthorn died, and Stirling Moss almost did at Goodwood. And I have seen a few ups and downs over the years. But what gets to me today is the contrast between the incredible skill and bravery of the drivers, as well as the ingenuity of the technology, and the tawdry ends to which it is all put to use.
Eric Mc said:
I'm entitled to be negative up until the point where something genuinely positive happens in F1. There is so much to be negative about - sadly.
The fact that the sport is dying on its feet demonstrates to me that my views are shared by many. It pains me to be like this. Motor sport and F1 has been one of my passions for half a century now. They've screwed up the sport I loved - and I'm pretty angry about it.
The good news is that it may encourage me to follow other motor sports which have lingered in teh shadow of F1 for decades. I really enjoyed both the Indy 500 and Le Mans 24 hour races this year. All is not lost.
And I'll be going to a local hillclimb in a few weeks. So I am diverting my motor sport interests into other areas - whilst F1 withers away to meaningless nothing - which is what it deserves unless it sorts itself out.
But what metric are you using to say that it's dying? The fact that the sport is dying on its feet demonstrates to me that my views are shared by many. It pains me to be like this. Motor sport and F1 has been one of my passions for half a century now. They've screwed up the sport I loved - and I'm pretty angry about it.
The good news is that it may encourage me to follow other motor sports which have lingered in teh shadow of F1 for decades. I really enjoyed both the Indy 500 and Le Mans 24 hour races this year. All is not lost.
And I'll be going to a local hillclimb in a few weeks. So I am diverting my motor sport interests into other areas - whilst F1 withers away to meaningless nothing - which is what it deserves unless it sorts itself out.
The obvious aspect is the long decline off in TV viewing figures.
The other aspects are way too numerous to mention but I'll have a go -
lack of genuine competitiveness
lack of variety of technology
lack of noise (a recent backward step)
poor driver sportsmanship and ethics (something that's been in decline for a while)
lack of interest in the fans by the teams
the peddling of exclusivity
concentration on vacuous celebrity
events held in places lacking motor sport (or even car) culture
the sheer dullness of the cars
the drift towards poor access on TV
There are loads more, but I'm sure you all know what they are.
The other aspects are way too numerous to mention but I'll have a go -
lack of genuine competitiveness
lack of variety of technology
lack of noise (a recent backward step)
poor driver sportsmanship and ethics (something that's been in decline for a while)
lack of interest in the fans by the teams
the peddling of exclusivity
concentration on vacuous celebrity
events held in places lacking motor sport (or even car) culture
the sheer dullness of the cars
the drift towards poor access on TV
There are loads more, but I'm sure you all know what they are.
So, this year I bit the bullet, and got Sky, so I can watch the whole race again, the first time for many years. That was no longer possible with German RTL, which has gradually developed into a two hour commercial break, with a few laps of F1 inbetween.
Now I can watch it without being interrupted every few minutes, I'm starting to notice all that is wrong with F1 (Baku was a notable exception, what a great race
Apart from Vettel behaving like a petulant child, that is)
I'm finding by and large that WEC and the Blancpain GT series are much more enjoyeable ( especially Le Mans )
A starting grid of up to 60 cars, old school driving, interesting circuits, and the sound, oh the sound
There are other bonuses too: not having to listen to interviews with Mr. politically correct, Toto Wolff (has he been doing seminars with Ron Dennis? When he does an interview it sounds like Ron speaking German
), for example.
I don't miss the political bulls
t from F1 one bit if I'm being honest, over the last few years it has got worse and worse, or at least that's my impression. I do hope LM manages to turn F1 round, after the damage that the poison dwarf did in his last 10 years of being the boss.
Now I can watch it without being interrupted every few minutes, I'm starting to notice all that is wrong with F1 (Baku was a notable exception, what a great race
Apart from Vettel behaving like a petulant child, that is) I'm finding by and large that WEC and the Blancpain GT series are much more enjoyeable ( especially Le Mans )
A starting grid of up to 60 cars, old school driving, interesting circuits, and the sound, oh the sound
There are other bonuses too: not having to listen to interviews with Mr. politically correct, Toto Wolff (has he been doing seminars with Ron Dennis? When he does an interview it sounds like Ron speaking German
), for example.I don't miss the political bulls
t from F1 one bit if I'm being honest, over the last few years it has got worse and worse, or at least that's my impression. I do hope LM manages to turn F1 round, after the damage that the poison dwarf did in his last 10 years of being the boss.Edited by GuitarTech on Monday 26th June 11:42
rscott said:
There are very strong rumours that Sky are making major changes to the way Sky Sports will be sold.
It's suggested they'll launch separate channels for various sports and make them available individually. It'll cost more to take all of them, but F1 or football fans may be able to subscribe to just their preferred sport.
That'd probably also carry over to Now tv, so they may be able to offer an F1 pass at a vaguely sensible price.
It has even been rumoured that Sky were discussing providing the official F1 streaming service, to be sold via F1 directly. Would make a lot of sense - Sky have recently migrated their streaming infrastructure to a common platform for all countries they serve, so gives them a base for this.
I really hope they do this... I refuse to pay Sky a ridiculous sum of money for sports channels I'd never watch just to get the F1 and I can't stand Channel 4s coverage so I'm left with the Internet option... this works relatively well, but I'd happily pay £10 a month to sky for the F1 channel.It's suggested they'll launch separate channels for various sports and make them available individually. It'll cost more to take all of them, but F1 or football fans may be able to subscribe to just their preferred sport.
That'd probably also carry over to Now tv, so they may be able to offer an F1 pass at a vaguely sensible price.
It has even been rumoured that Sky were discussing providing the official F1 streaming service, to be sold via F1 directly. Would make a lot of sense - Sky have recently migrated their streaming infrastructure to a common platform for all countries they serve, so gives them a base for this.
Many years ago satellite TV in the USA used a per-channel-per-month pricing option so that you could literally specify exactly which channels you wanted.
I'd love for that to happen here, I only ever really watch 3 or 4 channels so it'd be perfect for me.
Eric Mc said:
The obvious aspect is the long decline off in TV viewing figures.
The other aspects are way too numerous to mention but I'll have a go -
lack of genuine competitiveness
lack of variety of technology
lack of noise (a recent backward step)
poor driver sportsmanship and ethics (something that's been in decline for a while)
lack of interest in the fans by the teams
the peddling of exclusivity
concentration on vacuous celebrity
events held in places lacking motor sport (or even car) culture
the sheer dullness of the cars
the drift towards poor access on TV
There are loads more, but I'm sure you all know what they are.
Of that list you can make the case that all of those things have been in effect for the duration of F1's existence. The other aspects are way too numerous to mention but I'll have a go -
lack of genuine competitiveness
lack of variety of technology
lack of noise (a recent backward step)
poor driver sportsmanship and ethics (something that's been in decline for a while)
lack of interest in the fans by the teams
the peddling of exclusivity
concentration on vacuous celebrity
events held in places lacking motor sport (or even car) culture
the sheer dullness of the cars
the drift towards poor access on TV
There are loads more, but I'm sure you all know what they are.
Few examples
Lack of competitiveness - haven't we always had a team or two at best dominating for chunks of time?
Lack of variety of tech - When was the last tine in F1 we ever saw something significantly different? 20 years? 30?
Driver sportsmanship - As you say, been like that a long long time
lack of interest in the fans by the teams - I'd argue it's different. They all have social media presence. Fans have more knowledge about what is going on than ever before.
Dullness of the cars - in your opinion.
etc etc. The world moves on. Some things are better, some things are worse. I do know that no matter what happens someone will find something to complain about.
Yes - you are perfectly entitled to accept and enjoy the emaciated fare that now pretends to be the best motor sport in the world.
Yesterday's events only emphasise what a pile of tripe it has become.
We've been well and truly duped.
And OF COURSE all what I said is my opinion. Is that not what people expect me to give? I certainly can't give somebody else's opnion.
I really wonder at the mental processes that some posters go through before arriving at comments such as that.
Yesterday's events only emphasise what a pile of tripe it has become.
We've been well and truly duped.
And OF COURSE all what I said is my opinion. Is that not what people expect me to give? I certainly can't give somebody else's opnion.
I really wonder at the mental processes that some posters go through before arriving at comments such as that.
Edited by Eric Mc on Monday 26th June 12:41
K50 DEL said:
rscott said:
There are very strong rumours that Sky are making major changes to the way Sky Sports will be sold.
It's suggested they'll launch separate channels for various sports and make them available individually. It'll cost more to take all of them, but F1 or football fans may be able to subscribe to just their preferred sport.
That'd probably also carry over to Now tv, so they may be able to offer an F1 pass at a vaguely sensible price.
It has even been rumoured that Sky were discussing providing the official F1 streaming service, to be sold via F1 directly. Would make a lot of sense - Sky have recently migrated their streaming infrastructure to a common platform for all countries they serve, so gives them a base for this.
I really hope they do this... I refuse to pay Sky a ridiculous sum of money for sports channels I'd never watch just to get the F1 and I can't stand Channel 4s coverage so I'm left with the Internet option... this works relatively well, but I'd happily pay £10 a month to sky for the F1 channel.It's suggested they'll launch separate channels for various sports and make them available individually. It'll cost more to take all of them, but F1 or football fans may be able to subscribe to just their preferred sport.
That'd probably also carry over to Now tv, so they may be able to offer an F1 pass at a vaguely sensible price.
It has even been rumoured that Sky were discussing providing the official F1 streaming service, to be sold via F1 directly. Would make a lot of sense - Sky have recently migrated their streaming infrastructure to a common platform for all countries they serve, so gives them a base for this.
Many years ago satellite TV in the USA used a per-channel-per-month pricing option so that you could literally specify exactly which channels you wanted.
I'd love for that to happen here, I only ever really watch 3 or 4 channels so it'd be perfect for me.
Roofless Toothless said:
I have followed Eric's posts not only on Pistonheads, but on Blatchat for many years. To me he is the best example of the old adage that there are two things that people will never forgive you for: being clever, and being right.
Likewise. Christ, remember Blatchat??Anyhow...
As above, the world has changed; far more immediate choices fighting for people's attention from different sports and media. Young people have less Interest in cars.
To badly paraphrase Coultard, 'the phrase 'lift and coast' has no place in F1'
and Brundle from a race or two ago - F1 has a choice; it either tries to be relevant in the world by going hybrid etc etc or changes to a full out V8/10/12, terrifying, balls to the wall, monster of a series that has the best drivers in the best cars scaring themselves and the viewer (not literally) to death.
Putting the sport behind a paywall with dull presenters is not the way to secure its future. The sport is bloated, wasteful, complicated and is in need of significant trimming. Hear Toto's comment about 1500 staff back in the UK? 1500??!! Great for our economy by how can this possibly continue?
Likewise the elitist nature of it as well. I can see why this was done 25 years ago. You needed the flash and glamour to attract the luxury brands and sponsorship. Nowadays, why would you spend millions paying for a tiny logo on a car behind a paywall, when you get far better exposure for your watch from a Hamilton insta photo of him wearing it on a beach with Rhianna.
Eric Mc said:
Yes - you are perfectly entitled to accept and enjoy the emaciated fare that now pretends to be the best motor sport in the world.
Yesterday's events only emphasise what a pile of tripe it has become.
We've been well and truly duped.
And OF COURSE all what I said is my opinion. Is that not what people expect me to give? I certainly can't give somebody else's opnion.
I really wonder at the mental processes that some posters go through before arriving at comments such as that.
So don't watch it? It's not a difficult decision. If you clearly don't enjoy it, vote with your feet. Stop pissing and moaning about 'the good old days'. Yesterday's events only emphasise what a pile of tripe it has become.
We've been well and truly duped.
And OF COURSE all what I said is my opinion. Is that not what people expect me to give? I certainly can't give somebody else's opnion.
I really wonder at the mental processes that some posters go through before arriving at comments such as that.
Edited by Eric Mc on Monday 26th June 12:41
I really wonder about the mental processes of people who can't make such simple decisions.
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