F1 owners say UK paywall TV deal they have inherited is detr
Discussion
I'm already down that road. I can safely say I am weaning myself off the apology that currently calls itself F1.
I'm not saying its doomed - but it's in a bad way and needs a serious rethink if it is to regain any of the credibility and excitement it once had.
Liberty need to make changes - fast.
I'm not saying its doomed - but it's in a bad way and needs a serious rethink if it is to regain any of the credibility and excitement it once had.
Liberty need to make changes - fast.
ClockworkCupcake said:
... I have to very gently say that comments like this are overwhelmingly negative and petty, and really don't add anything to the debate ... your F1 posts these days really do consist only of negative sniping and trolling
Save your breath. It makes little to no difference, as his last post highlights so succinctly.Eric Mc said:
... the apology that currently calls itself F1 ... it's in a bad way and needs a serious rethink if it is to regain any of the credibility and excitement it once had
Every time I read these threads nearly everyone has a severe and contagious dose of the rose tinted glasses. Sure we might pine for amazing battles between Senna and Mansell or Villeneuve and Peroni but these events were few and far between.
Let's use an example, from what many people consider the 'hey day' of F1, when it was on the BBC with Murray Walker.
1985 for example. At the first race, the Brazilian Grand prix at Jacarepaguá, two cars finished on the lead lap. Yes you read that right. TWO. De Angelis finished third, a lap down. Fourth place was a further lap down. Hardly exciting racing I'm sure you'll agree.
'But that was the first race of the season!' I hear you cry. OK, the British GP that same year. Alain Prost won that race for McLaren. Alboreto was second. How close was he to beating Prost? A f
king country mile. He finished a lap down. A veritable procession. FIFTEEN cars retired.
Belgium 1985? This is more like it! Four cars finished on the lead lap. Much more exciting, right? battling right to the end? Er, no, not really. The gaps were 28.5 seconds from first to second, third placed Prost was a further 55 seconds behind the winner.
Lets fast forward three years, 1988.
McLaren were, of course, in a class of their own. Only Berger won at Monza for Ferrari. Lets pick to other random races. France and Hungary at random.
The French GP finished with THREE cars on the lead lap. Gaps? 31 seconds and then 1:06 behind the winner, Prost in this case.
Portugal, at Estoril? WOW, amazing result as 6 cars finished on the lead lap! Was it exciting? maybe for a few seconds but the winning gaps tell their own story. 9.5 seconds from Prost, 44.6 behind Prost, 1:07, 1:11 (four seconds!) and 1:18 behind the winner. Fourteen cars retired including Mansell, berger and Piquet.
Lets go forward to the early 90's. 1992 at random. V8's, 10's and 12's all through the grid. I have no doubt it sounded great. But was the racing exciting?
Two random races, say 5th and 8th. That's San Marino and France again.
San Marino Mansell won. Hurrah! 9.45 seconds further back was second place. Senna finished a further 49 seconds back from Mansell. Only four cars finished on the lead lap and 12 cars retired.
France? Magny Cours was the venue. Again three cars finished on the lead lap and Mansell won again. Hurrah! Gaps this time were 46.45 seconds and 1:12 back. Only 11 cars finished the race and 15 retired.
I'm very sorry to say this, but while there may have been some instances where two drivers battled it out at 180MPH side by side or managed to work a pass by planning the whole thing five corners before it actually happened, overall the racing was deathly dull, full or retirements (although I appreciate part of the charm for some was not knowing who would finish, throwing up some great results and surprises) but generally, in the 'hey day' the few peaks there were only masked how dreadfully poor the overall event was.
Cars have become far, FAR more reliable over the years and indeed in some races there have been no retirements due to mechanical issues.
Even just ten years ago, the British GP 6 cars finished on the lead lap. There were some closer times for some though. Kimi won, Alonso was 2.46 seconds back. Hamilton 39.3 further back. Then a veritable gaggle of cars 53.3, 54.06 and 56.4 seconds back. Fifteen cars finished. As many as retired in some of the other events I've listed.
Last year TEN cars finished on the lead lap. Sixteen cars finished.
In summary, much of the racing was st, punctuated by the odd memorable event which people idolise as if it happened all the time. It didn't. Much of it was boring as hell watching drivers pootle round, 2-3 seconds off their fastest potential lap time saving tyres and fuel because they were under no pressure as their closest challenger was 20+ seconds behind them. Sure, this happens now, but it's by no means a new thing. I suggest you all take over your rose tinted glasses and see the reality.
Let's use an example, from what many people consider the 'hey day' of F1, when it was on the BBC with Murray Walker.
1985 for example. At the first race, the Brazilian Grand prix at Jacarepaguá, two cars finished on the lead lap. Yes you read that right. TWO. De Angelis finished third, a lap down. Fourth place was a further lap down. Hardly exciting racing I'm sure you'll agree.
'But that was the first race of the season!' I hear you cry. OK, the British GP that same year. Alain Prost won that race for McLaren. Alboreto was second. How close was he to beating Prost? A f
king country mile. He finished a lap down. A veritable procession. FIFTEEN cars retired.Belgium 1985? This is more like it! Four cars finished on the lead lap. Much more exciting, right? battling right to the end? Er, no, not really. The gaps were 28.5 seconds from first to second, third placed Prost was a further 55 seconds behind the winner.
Lets fast forward three years, 1988.
McLaren were, of course, in a class of their own. Only Berger won at Monza for Ferrari. Lets pick to other random races. France and Hungary at random.
The French GP finished with THREE cars on the lead lap. Gaps? 31 seconds and then 1:06 behind the winner, Prost in this case.
Portugal, at Estoril? WOW, amazing result as 6 cars finished on the lead lap! Was it exciting? maybe for a few seconds but the winning gaps tell their own story. 9.5 seconds from Prost, 44.6 behind Prost, 1:07, 1:11 (four seconds!) and 1:18 behind the winner. Fourteen cars retired including Mansell, berger and Piquet.
Lets go forward to the early 90's. 1992 at random. V8's, 10's and 12's all through the grid. I have no doubt it sounded great. But was the racing exciting?
Two random races, say 5th and 8th. That's San Marino and France again.
San Marino Mansell won. Hurrah! 9.45 seconds further back was second place. Senna finished a further 49 seconds back from Mansell. Only four cars finished on the lead lap and 12 cars retired.
France? Magny Cours was the venue. Again three cars finished on the lead lap and Mansell won again. Hurrah! Gaps this time were 46.45 seconds and 1:12 back. Only 11 cars finished the race and 15 retired.
I'm very sorry to say this, but while there may have been some instances where two drivers battled it out at 180MPH side by side or managed to work a pass by planning the whole thing five corners before it actually happened, overall the racing was deathly dull, full or retirements (although I appreciate part of the charm for some was not knowing who would finish, throwing up some great results and surprises) but generally, in the 'hey day' the few peaks there were only masked how dreadfully poor the overall event was.
Cars have become far, FAR more reliable over the years and indeed in some races there have been no retirements due to mechanical issues.
Even just ten years ago, the British GP 6 cars finished on the lead lap. There were some closer times for some though. Kimi won, Alonso was 2.46 seconds back. Hamilton 39.3 further back. Then a veritable gaggle of cars 53.3, 54.06 and 56.4 seconds back. Fifteen cars finished. As many as retired in some of the other events I've listed.
Last year TEN cars finished on the lead lap. Sixteen cars finished.
In summary, much of the racing was s
t, punctuated by the odd memorable event which people idolise as if it happened all the time. It didn't. Much of it was boring as hell watching drivers pootle round, 2-3 seconds off their fastest potential lap time saving tyres and fuel because they were under no pressure as their closest challenger was 20+ seconds behind them. Sure, this happens now, but it's by no means a new thing. I suggest you all take over your rose tinted glasses and see the reality.MissChief said:
In summary, much of the racing was st, punctuated by the odd memorable event which people idolise as if it happened all the time. It didn't. Much of it was boring as hell watching drivers pootle round, 2-3 seconds off their fastest potential lap time saving tyres and fuel because they were under no pressure as their closest challenger was 20+ seconds behind them. Sure, this happens now, but it's by no means a new thing. I suggest you all take over your rose tinted glasses and see the reality.
I predict that Eric won't like this.t, punctuated by the odd memorable event which people idolise as if it happened all the time. It didn't. Much of it was boring as hell watching drivers pootle round, 2-3 seconds off their fastest potential lap time saving tyres and fuel because they were under no pressure as their closest challenger was 20+ seconds behind them. Sure, this happens now, but it's by no means a new thing. I suggest you all take over your rose tinted glasses and see the reality.As it is going behind a pay wall - whether I want to watch it or not is going to be irrelevant. I won't be paying stupid money to watch something that is not that enticing even for free.
By bye F1 - I knew you when you were exciting, unpredictable and was filled with heroes. Now it is predictable, boring and filled with petty children.
I don't think I will be missing anything.
By bye F1 - I knew you when you were exciting, unpredictable and was filled with heroes. Now it is predictable, boring and filled with petty children.
I don't think I will be missing anything.
Crafty_ said:
Yes it is expensive, but the sky coverage is the best we've ever had by some way. BBC coverage turned in to a farce with Humphrey gurning at the camera, Coulthard being just plain rude to Jordan and Jordan, well, being Jordan.
The Channel 4 coverage is just lacklustre, I'm not sure they really want to be there half the time.
Just as an FYI, the BBC and Channel4 content are basically the same production team.The Channel 4 coverage is just lacklustre, I'm not sure they really want to be there half the time.
Eric Mc said:
By bye F1 - I knew you when you were exciting, unpredictable and was filled with heroes. Now it is predictable, boring and filled with petty children.
Bye bye Eric - I knew you when you were knowledgable, interesting, informative, and your posts worth reading. Now you are predictable, boring, and filled with petty spite. Eric Mc said:
As it is going behind a pay wall - whether I want to watch it or not is going to be irrelevant. I won't be paying stupid money to watch something that is not that enticing even for free.
By bye F1 - I knew you when you were exciting, unpredictable and was filled with heroes. Now it is predictable, boring and filled with petty children.
I don't think I will be missing anything.
Just watch it for free (many, many ways). Or listen on the radio.By bye F1 - I knew you when you were exciting, unpredictable and was filled with heroes. Now it is predictable, boring and filled with petty children.
I don't think I will be missing anything.
Personally, I still very much enjoy F1 however, I don’t remember the last time I watch A) Qualifying and B) the race live. Qualifying I just read the results at some point and the race I record from onto the SKY box and watch is late on the Sunday and avoid the news for the day (very easily done) so I can spend time with my family. I don’t bother with all the build-up or the interviews. I just watch the race without fast forwarding.
I have the SKY legacy package and pay around £56 for the phone line, unlimited Fibre BB and SKY HD with only the F1 channel. This which works for me. This is where I think F1 has a problem. No way would I sign up to SKY sports now with HD as a new customer just for F1. It’s just too much money as every year I almost cancel SKY but they temp me with a new ‘deal’. The F1 channel needs to be removed from the sports package and linked with EUROSPORT somehow as a large number of people I know like F1 but have no interested in other sports or they like other sports and have no interest in F1.
I have the SKY legacy package and pay around £56 for the phone line, unlimited Fibre BB and SKY HD with only the F1 channel. This which works for me. This is where I think F1 has a problem. No way would I sign up to SKY sports now with HD as a new customer just for F1. It’s just too much money as every year I almost cancel SKY but they temp me with a new ‘deal’. The F1 channel needs to be removed from the sports package and linked with EUROSPORT somehow as a large number of people I know like F1 but have no interested in other sports or they like other sports and have no interest in F1.
Vaud said:
Eric Mc said:
As it is going behind a pay wall - whether I want to watch it or not is going to be irrelevant. I won't be paying stupid money to watch something that is not that enticing even for free.
By bye F1 - I knew you when you were exciting, unpredictable and was filled with heroes. Now it is predictable, boring and filled with petty children.
I don't think I will be missing anything.
Just watch it for free (many, many ways). Or listen on the radio.By bye F1 - I knew you when you were exciting, unpredictable and was filled with heroes. Now it is predictable, boring and filled with petty children.
I don't think I will be missing anything.
MissChief said:
Every time I read these threads nearly everyone has a severe and contagious dose of the rose tinted glasses. Sure we might pine for amazing battles between Senna and Mansell or Villeneuve and Peroni but these events were few and far between.
Let's use an example, from what many people consider the 'hey day' of F1, when it was on the BBC with Murray Walker.
1985 for example. At the first race, the Brazilian Grand prix at Jacarepaguá, two cars finished on the lead lap. Yes you read that right. TWO. De Angelis finished third, a lap down. Fourth place was a further lap down. Hardly exciting racing I'm sure you'll agree.
'But that was the first race of the season!' I hear you cry. OK, the British GP that same year. Alain Prost won that race for McLaren. Alboreto was second. How close was he to beating Prost? A fking country mile. He finished a lap down. A veritable procession. FIFTEEN cars retired.
Belgium 1985? This is more like it! Four cars finished on the lead lap. Much more exciting, right? battling right to the end? Er, no, not really. The gaps were 28.5 seconds from first to second, third placed Prost was a further 55 seconds behind the winner.
Lets fast forward three years, 1988.
McLaren were, of course, in a class of their own. Only Berger won at Monza for Ferrari. Lets pick to other random races. France and Hungary at random.
The French GP finished with THREE cars on the lead lap. Gaps? 31 seconds and then 1:06 behind the winner, Prost in this case.
Portugal, at Estoril? WOW, amazing result as 6 cars finished on the lead lap! Was it exciting? maybe for a few seconds but the winning gaps tell their own story. 9.5 seconds from Prost, 44.6 behind Prost, 1:07, 1:11 (four seconds!) and 1:18 behind the winner. Fourteen cars retired including Mansell, berger and Piquet.
Lets go forward to the early 90's. 1992 at random. V8's, 10's and 12's all through the grid. I have no doubt it sounded great. But was the racing exciting?
Two random races, say 5th and 8th. That's San Marino and France again.
San Marino Mansell won. Hurrah! 9.45 seconds further back was second place. Senna finished a further 49 seconds back from Mansell. Only four cars finished on the lead lap and 12 cars retired.
France? Magny Cours was the venue. Again three cars finished on the lead lap and Mansell won again. Hurrah! Gaps this time were 46.45 seconds and 1:12 back. Only 11 cars finished the race and 15 retired.
I'm very sorry to say this, but while there may have been some instances where two drivers battled it out at 180MPH side by side or managed to work a pass by planning the whole thing five corners before it actually happened, overall the racing was deathly dull, full or retirements (although I appreciate part of the charm for some was not knowing who would finish, throwing up some great results and surprises) but generally, in the 'hey day' the few peaks there were only masked how dreadfully poor the overall event was.
Cars have become far, FAR more reliable over the years and indeed in some races there have been no retirements due to mechanical issues.
Even just ten years ago, the British GP 6 cars finished on the lead lap. There were some closer times for some though. Kimi won, Alonso was 2.46 seconds back. Hamilton 39.3 further back. Then a veritable gaggle of cars 53.3, 54.06 and 56.4 seconds back. Fifteen cars finished. As many as retired in some of the other events I've listed.
Last year TEN cars finished on the lead lap. Sixteen cars finished.
In summary, much of the racing was st, punctuated by the odd memorable event which people idolise as if it happened all the time. It didn't. Much of it was boring as hell watching drivers pootle round, 2-3 seconds off their fastest potential lap time saving tyres and fuel because they were under no pressure as their closest challenger was 20+ seconds behind them. Sure, this happens now, but it's by no means a new thing. I suggest you all take over your rose tinted glasses and see the reality.
The unintentional genius of Murray Walker was to make a race seem more exciting than it actually was. In many ways his authentic and infectious passion WAS the show.Let's use an example, from what many people consider the 'hey day' of F1, when it was on the BBC with Murray Walker.
1985 for example. At the first race, the Brazilian Grand prix at Jacarepaguá, two cars finished on the lead lap. Yes you read that right. TWO. De Angelis finished third, a lap down. Fourth place was a further lap down. Hardly exciting racing I'm sure you'll agree.
'But that was the first race of the season!' I hear you cry. OK, the British GP that same year. Alain Prost won that race for McLaren. Alboreto was second. How close was he to beating Prost? A f
king country mile. He finished a lap down. A veritable procession. FIFTEEN cars retired.Belgium 1985? This is more like it! Four cars finished on the lead lap. Much more exciting, right? battling right to the end? Er, no, not really. The gaps were 28.5 seconds from first to second, third placed Prost was a further 55 seconds behind the winner.
Lets fast forward three years, 1988.
McLaren were, of course, in a class of their own. Only Berger won at Monza for Ferrari. Lets pick to other random races. France and Hungary at random.
The French GP finished with THREE cars on the lead lap. Gaps? 31 seconds and then 1:06 behind the winner, Prost in this case.
Portugal, at Estoril? WOW, amazing result as 6 cars finished on the lead lap! Was it exciting? maybe for a few seconds but the winning gaps tell their own story. 9.5 seconds from Prost, 44.6 behind Prost, 1:07, 1:11 (four seconds!) and 1:18 behind the winner. Fourteen cars retired including Mansell, berger and Piquet.
Lets go forward to the early 90's. 1992 at random. V8's, 10's and 12's all through the grid. I have no doubt it sounded great. But was the racing exciting?
Two random races, say 5th and 8th. That's San Marino and France again.
San Marino Mansell won. Hurrah! 9.45 seconds further back was second place. Senna finished a further 49 seconds back from Mansell. Only four cars finished on the lead lap and 12 cars retired.
France? Magny Cours was the venue. Again three cars finished on the lead lap and Mansell won again. Hurrah! Gaps this time were 46.45 seconds and 1:12 back. Only 11 cars finished the race and 15 retired.
I'm very sorry to say this, but while there may have been some instances where two drivers battled it out at 180MPH side by side or managed to work a pass by planning the whole thing five corners before it actually happened, overall the racing was deathly dull, full or retirements (although I appreciate part of the charm for some was not knowing who would finish, throwing up some great results and surprises) but generally, in the 'hey day' the few peaks there were only masked how dreadfully poor the overall event was.
Cars have become far, FAR more reliable over the years and indeed in some races there have been no retirements due to mechanical issues.
Even just ten years ago, the British GP 6 cars finished on the lead lap. There were some closer times for some though. Kimi won, Alonso was 2.46 seconds back. Hamilton 39.3 further back. Then a veritable gaggle of cars 53.3, 54.06 and 56.4 seconds back. Fifteen cars finished. As many as retired in some of the other events I've listed.
Last year TEN cars finished on the lead lap. Sixteen cars finished.
In summary, much of the racing was s
t, punctuated by the odd memorable event which people idolise as if it happened all the time. It didn't. Much of it was boring as hell watching drivers pootle round, 2-3 seconds off their fastest potential lap time saving tyres and fuel because they were under no pressure as their closest challenger was 20+ seconds behind them. Sure, this happens now, but it's by no means a new thing. I suggest you all take over your rose tinted glasses and see the reality.Ben Edwards is the closest we've got, but he remains a country mile behind Murray.
MissChief said:
Every time I read these threads nearly everyone has a severe and contagious dose of the rose tinted glasses. Sure we might pine for amazing battles between Senna and Mansell or Villeneuve and Peroni but these events were few and far between.
Let's use an example, from what many people consider the 'hey day' of F1, when it was on the BBC with Murray Walker.
1985 for example. At the first race, the Brazilian Grand prix at Jacarepaguá, two cars finished on the lead lap. Yes you read that right. TWO. De Angelis finished third, a lap down. Fourth place was a further lap down. Hardly exciting racing I'm sure you'll agree.
'But that was the first race of the season!' I hear you cry. OK, the British GP that same year. Alain Prost won that race for McLaren. Alboreto was second. How close was he to beating Prost? A fking country mile. He finished a lap down. A veritable procession. FIFTEEN cars retired.
Belgium 1985? This is more like it! Four cars finished on the lead lap. Much more exciting, right? battling right to the end? Er, no, not really. The gaps were 28.5 seconds from first to second, third placed Prost was a further 55 seconds behind the winner.
Lets fast forward three years, 1988.
McLaren were, of course, in a class of their own. Only Berger won at Monza for Ferrari. Lets pick to other random races. France and Hungary at random.
The French GP finished with THREE cars on the lead lap. Gaps? 31 seconds and then 1:06 behind the winner, Prost in this case.
Portugal, at Estoril? WOW, amazing result as 6 cars finished on the lead lap! Was it exciting? maybe for a few seconds but the winning gaps tell their own story. 9.5 seconds from Prost, 44.6 behind Prost, 1:07, 1:11 (four seconds!) and 1:18 behind the winner. Fourteen cars retired including Mansell, berger and Piquet.
Lets go forward to the early 90's. 1992 at random. V8's, 10's and 12's all through the grid. I have no doubt it sounded great. But was the racing exciting?
Two random races, say 5th and 8th. That's San Marino and France again.
San Marino Mansell won. Hurrah! 9.45 seconds further back was second place. Senna finished a further 49 seconds back from Mansell. Only four cars finished on the lead lap and 12 cars retired.
France? Magny Cours was the venue. Again three cars finished on the lead lap and Mansell won again. Hurrah! Gaps this time were 46.45 seconds and 1:12 back. Only 11 cars finished the race and 15 retired.
I'm very sorry to say this, but while there may have been some instances where two drivers battled it out at 180MPH side by side or managed to work a pass by planning the whole thing five corners before it actually happened, overall the racing was deathly dull, full or retirements (although I appreciate part of the charm for some was not knowing who would finish, throwing up some great results and surprises) but generally, in the 'hey day' the few peaks there were only masked how dreadfully poor the overall event was.
Cars have become far, FAR more reliable over the years and indeed in some races there have been no retirements due to mechanical issues.
Even just ten years ago, the British GP 6 cars finished on the lead lap. There were some closer times for some though. Kimi won, Alonso was 2.46 seconds back. Hamilton 39.3 further back. Then a veritable gaggle of cars 53.3, 54.06 and 56.4 seconds back. Fifteen cars finished. As many as retired in some of the other events I've listed.
Last year TEN cars finished on the lead lap. Sixteen cars finished.
In summary, much of the racing was st, punctuated by the odd memorable event which people idolise as if it happened all the time. It didn't. Much of it was boring as hell watching drivers pootle round, 2-3 seconds off their fastest potential lap time saving tyres and fuel because they were under no pressure as their closest challenger was 20+ seconds behind them. Sure, this happens now, but it's by no means a new thing. I suggest you all take over your rose tinted glasses and see the reality.
I'd never thought about it like that before but you're right.Let's use an example, from what many people consider the 'hey day' of F1, when it was on the BBC with Murray Walker.
1985 for example. At the first race, the Brazilian Grand prix at Jacarepaguá, two cars finished on the lead lap. Yes you read that right. TWO. De Angelis finished third, a lap down. Fourth place was a further lap down. Hardly exciting racing I'm sure you'll agree.
'But that was the first race of the season!' I hear you cry. OK, the British GP that same year. Alain Prost won that race for McLaren. Alboreto was second. How close was he to beating Prost? A f
king country mile. He finished a lap down. A veritable procession. FIFTEEN cars retired.Belgium 1985? This is more like it! Four cars finished on the lead lap. Much more exciting, right? battling right to the end? Er, no, not really. The gaps were 28.5 seconds from first to second, third placed Prost was a further 55 seconds behind the winner.
Lets fast forward three years, 1988.
McLaren were, of course, in a class of their own. Only Berger won at Monza for Ferrari. Lets pick to other random races. France and Hungary at random.
The French GP finished with THREE cars on the lead lap. Gaps? 31 seconds and then 1:06 behind the winner, Prost in this case.
Portugal, at Estoril? WOW, amazing result as 6 cars finished on the lead lap! Was it exciting? maybe for a few seconds but the winning gaps tell their own story. 9.5 seconds from Prost, 44.6 behind Prost, 1:07, 1:11 (four seconds!) and 1:18 behind the winner. Fourteen cars retired including Mansell, berger and Piquet.
Lets go forward to the early 90's. 1992 at random. V8's, 10's and 12's all through the grid. I have no doubt it sounded great. But was the racing exciting?
Two random races, say 5th and 8th. That's San Marino and France again.
San Marino Mansell won. Hurrah! 9.45 seconds further back was second place. Senna finished a further 49 seconds back from Mansell. Only four cars finished on the lead lap and 12 cars retired.
France? Magny Cours was the venue. Again three cars finished on the lead lap and Mansell won again. Hurrah! Gaps this time were 46.45 seconds and 1:12 back. Only 11 cars finished the race and 15 retired.
I'm very sorry to say this, but while there may have been some instances where two drivers battled it out at 180MPH side by side or managed to work a pass by planning the whole thing five corners before it actually happened, overall the racing was deathly dull, full or retirements (although I appreciate part of the charm for some was not knowing who would finish, throwing up some great results and surprises) but generally, in the 'hey day' the few peaks there were only masked how dreadfully poor the overall event was.
Cars have become far, FAR more reliable over the years and indeed in some races there have been no retirements due to mechanical issues.
Even just ten years ago, the British GP 6 cars finished on the lead lap. There were some closer times for some though. Kimi won, Alonso was 2.46 seconds back. Hamilton 39.3 further back. Then a veritable gaggle of cars 53.3, 54.06 and 56.4 seconds back. Fifteen cars finished. As many as retired in some of the other events I've listed.
Last year TEN cars finished on the lead lap. Sixteen cars finished.
In summary, much of the racing was s
t, punctuated by the odd memorable event which people idolise as if it happened all the time. It didn't. Much of it was boring as hell watching drivers pootle round, 2-3 seconds off their fastest potential lap time saving tyres and fuel because they were under no pressure as their closest challenger was 20+ seconds behind them. Sure, this happens now, but it's by no means a new thing. I suggest you all take over your rose tinted glasses and see the reality.Maybe the issue isn't about how crap it is now, but that I shouldn't have wasted all that time watching in the past because it's always been s
t, just rolled in the glitter of nostalgia.Oddly this makes it easier not to bother with F1 again. It probably wasn't the intended point if your post but thanks.
MissChief said:
Not quoted as others have done so.
Top post.One thing I will suggest though is that F1 for many fans is not all about the race itself. When there were fewer races a season each was more of an event. The build up, the camping at the circuit, the chatting with other fans, the smell, the noise and a lot else (although not the toilets) made a race into something memorable.
There were generally two or three excellent and exciting races each season, even, perhaps especially, in '88 when McLaren dominated. Senna had to be removed from the circuit by a Williams before another car, a Ferrari at Monza!, managed to scrape through.
Your point is good though; F1 is much more exciting in memory than in the actual race. However, the 1987 British was the most thrilling race I can remember and yet the two Williams were the only cars on the lead lap.
The odd thing, and one that I find difficult to explain, is that the last few seasons, probably post Ferrari and Schumacher, have been the golden years. The only thing taking the shine off F1 was the lack of concern for the future. Now that appears to be settled we should be rejoicing, not moaning.
I thoroughly enjoyed F1 from my first race, the 66 British at Brands, to Baku.
Not only that, but now the bloke at the top has gone, other forumlae are getting support. Motor racing in general appears to be, if not on the up, then at least maintaining its support. Some may be drifting towards WEC, I confess to being one of those, but what is good for motor racing is good for F1.
Good post, Miss C.
Funk said:
Maybe the issue isn't about how crap it is now, but that I shouldn't have wasted all that time watching in the past because it's always been st, just rolled in the glitter of nostalgia..
The fact the racing was actually dull kind of misses the point though - because at the time it felt like it was exciting. You looked forward to the racing and the qualifying despite it not always delivering. t, just rolled in the glitter of nostalgia..For me, the main reason for this was that everyone (the whole family / country) watched it as it was free on the BBC and there was a limited number of channels so they had to - The casual viewer makes for the morning after gossip which in turn leads to more people watching / caring about the outcome etc etc.
Bob
If action was what mattered, the only sport watched would be basketball but actually lots of action is also dull.
Derek Smith said:
, but what is good for motor racing is good for F1.
Good post, Miss C.
I wonder if the top bods at F1 recognise that though. For decades they looked on other formulae as threats and acted accordingly i.e,. ensuring they struggled.Good post, Miss C.
I'd like to think they will start taking a more enlightened view - but I'm not holding my breath.
London424 said:
Eric Mc said:
Yes - you are perfectly entitled to accept and enjoy the emaciated fare that now pretends to be the best motor sport in the world.
Yesterday's events only emphasise what a pile of tripe it has become.
We've been well and truly duped.
And OF COURSE all what I said is my opinion. Is that not what people expect me to give? I certainly can't give somebody else's opnion.
I really wonder at the mental processes that some posters go through before arriving at comments such as that.
So don't watch it? It's not a difficult decision. If you clearly don't enjoy it, vote with your feet. Stop pissing and moaning about 'the good old days'. Yesterday's events only emphasise what a pile of tripe it has become.
We've been well and truly duped.
And OF COURSE all what I said is my opinion. Is that not what people expect me to give? I certainly can't give somebody else's opnion.
I really wonder at the mental processes that some posters go through before arriving at comments such as that.
Edited by Eric Mc on Monday 26th June 12:41
I really wonder about the mental processes of people who can't make such simple decisions.
I was at Canada and they had 100,000+ attendees each day with people there from all over the world; the same could be said when I went to Spa, Silverstone and Monza in the last 5 years. F1 isn't fading out (although I concede that some modern tracks do struggle to fill their seats), but I hold hope for those who refuse to move with the sport will eventually go away and leave fans of the current iteration of F1 to enjoy it for what it is. All IMO of course.
MissChief said:
Good stuff
That's a well researched and very informative piece. No wonder you were up until past midnight. 
I actually said much the same after the Russian GP, but without all your leg work. I quote:
"Face it, they go out to qualify and then get lined up on the grid in order of speed. All other things being equal that means that when the race starts, they simply all drive away from each other.
I suppose we all remember the special moments in F1 over the years, and you can find plenty of videos on YouTube to remind you of them. The trouble is that human nature tends to make us forget the boring ones that filled out most of the season, even in the years of Clark, Senna, Mansell, etc."
My point mainly was that mistakes usually lead to things happening, and the standards of skill and engineering in F1 are so high that it can so easily get processional. When the occasional daft thing happens, like a head support getting unattached, then a race turns on it.
I have no illusions about last Sunday's race, there was plenty to dislike about it. As an 'event' it was fascinating, but as pure sport (and sportsmanship) not very near the top of the tree.
I won't be paying out to get past the paywall next year. And the reason for that is possibly more that I am a tight fisted old git, than that I don't want to see live races. I can live without. Some of us like to get out and see family, go places on Sundays, and I often come back to watch a recording of a GP in the evening. So why should I pay to see what would be for me essentially a catch up/highlights show anyway? I hardly saw a GP live from about 1978 to 2000 - I was out every weekend either at the kart track with my kids or marshalling at Brands Hatch or Snetterton.
There's just not sufficient value in it for what they are charging. There's not a shortage of money in motor racing at F1 level, and I would feel like a bit of a chump paying out my cash to subscribe to a PPV channel that carries adverts, to watch racing cars covered with advertising going round, many of which are there in the first place to sell road cars. I make that four times I am getting screwed over!
Besides, the more people that stay away from it, the sooner they will learn they are killing the goose that lays the golden egg, and we will get back to free to air viewing.
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