Sebastian Vettel
Discussion
LM240 said:
It is such a shame the ferrari dream didn’t come true. I truly hoped for a Schumacher mkII.
However, when it came to the crunch he made too many errors and threw away his chances.
He had his chance and it hasn’t worked out. On this occasion I think it was time to seek out a new direction for the team... maybe even a year or two sooner would have been better!
The way Schumacher exited I thought was a disgrace after everything he’d done for the team.
The Ferrari of recent years isn’t the Ferrari that Schumacher, Todt and Brawn built. Not by a long chalk However, when it came to the crunch he made too many errors and threw away his chances.
He had his chance and it hasn’t worked out. On this occasion I think it was time to seek out a new direction for the team... maybe even a year or two sooner would have been better!
The way Schumacher exited I thought was a disgrace after everything he’d done for the team.
Maybe Vettel's biggest mistake was thinking that it was.
jsf said:
There is no room for sentimental thoughts in F1.
Vettel has been sub par for years, Riciardo spanking him was the just showing how average he is.
If you look back to his championship years, he still screwed up and spun, he got away with it a lot as he had the fastest car and could recover.
I think (& hope) there's lots of room for sentimentality in F1. There's plenty of drivers I'd rather see less of than VET, I suppose the question is who would you rather see in a top seat?Vettel has been sub par for years, Riciardo spanking him was the just showing how average he is.
If you look back to his championship years, he still screwed up and spun, he got away with it a lot as he had the fastest car and could recover.
Personally I'd rather see him than Saintz in a top seat, probably BOT and ALB too but we can't deny the guard is changing. Not to mention you'd be hard pushed to see him take any of those seats in this situation.
Maybe he'll be more appreciated in years to come, as most are. Prost wasn't thought of as the genius he was during his later years, maybe Seb will be too?
REALIST123 said:
LM240 said:
It is such a shame the ferrari dream didn’t come true. I truly hoped for a Schumacher mkII.
However, when it came to the crunch he made too many errors and threw away his chances.
He had his chance and it hasn’t worked out. On this occasion I think it was time to seek out a new direction for the team... maybe even a year or two sooner would have been better!
The way Schumacher exited I thought was a disgrace after everything he’d done for the team.
The Ferrari of recent years isn’t the Ferrari that Schumacher, Todt and Brawn built. Not by a long chalk However, when it came to the crunch he made too many errors and threw away his chances.
He had his chance and it hasn’t worked out. On this occasion I think it was time to seek out a new direction for the team... maybe even a year or two sooner would have been better!
The way Schumacher exited I thought was a disgrace after everything he’d done for the team.
Maybe Vettel's biggest mistake was thinking that it was.
Raikkonen was given way too much grace year after year also at ferrari.
I’m confident in Leclerc and will have to see how Sainz stacks up. I’m not expecting much too be honest.
LM240 said:
That was a special period when everything aligned, but vettel has still had at least a couple of years where the car could have won the title. I know there were team errors along the way but when it came to the crunch he buckled and his errors threw things away.
Raikkonen was given way too much grace year after year also at ferrari.
I’m confident in Leclerc and will have to see how Sainz stacks up. I’m not expecting much too be honest.
Sainz was really good last year, but I'm sad he's chosen (unless he was pushed by Danny Ricciardo) what is destined to be a number 2 slot. I can't see him being allowed to cause too many headaches. He'll be Ferrari's Bottas with a shorter leash. Raikkonen was given way too much grace year after year also at ferrari.
I’m confident in Leclerc and will have to see how Sainz stacks up. I’m not expecting much too be honest.
glazbagun said:
Sainz was really good last year, but I'm sad he's chosen (unless he was pushed by Danny Ricciardo) what is destined to be a number 2 slot. I can't see him being allowed to cause too many headaches. He'll be Ferrari's Bottas with a shorter leash.
Agree, if he doesn't out qualify Leclerc, it will be over before it even started. HTP99 said:
Exige77 said:
HTP99 said:
HustleRussell said:
If what Sebastian is saying is true, Ferrari have properly dumped him in brutal fashion. Telling him they weren’t at all interested in even opening up a dialogue is a dagger to the heart.
Wasn't Schumacher effectively dropped in a similar brutal fashion?I think he was umming and aahing a bit about his future, Raikkonen became available and Ferrari moved to secure him in 2005, knowing they needed to invest in the future rather than be left without a star driver.
At that point, Schumacher's options were to remain with Ferrari and accept a very equivalent role alongside the new man, or retire. He chose the latter.
REALIST123 said:
LM240 said:
It is such a shame the ferrari dream didn’t come true. I truly hoped for a Schumacher mkII.
However, when it came to the crunch he made too many errors and threw away his chances.
He had his chance and it hasn’t worked out. On this occasion I think it was time to seek out a new direction for the team... maybe even a year or two sooner would have been better!
The way Schumacher exited I thought was a disgrace after everything he’d done for the team.
The Ferrari of recent years isn’t the Ferrari that Schumacher, Todt and Brawn built. Not by a long chalk However, when it came to the crunch he made too many errors and threw away his chances.
He had his chance and it hasn’t worked out. On this occasion I think it was time to seek out a new direction for the team... maybe even a year or two sooner would have been better!
The way Schumacher exited I thought was a disgrace after everything he’d done for the team.
Maybe Vettel's biggest mistake was thinking that it was.
That group of people were the only ones to un-Ferrari the team in their F1 history so it was always a tall order.
It's looking more and more like Sebastian's head has gone. If it continues, I'd be surprised to see him finish the season.
vdn said:
Seb really fading away in front of our very eyes. Shame.
Shame? Exposing a hack is a joy to watch. Whilst looking for some funny pictures to use here as a meme I came across this. Must be dating way back since it mentions 3 WDC's, already back then people knew the name of the game.
Horace Van Khute said:
vdn said:
Seb really fading away in front of our very eyes. Shame.
Shame? Exposing a hack is a joy to watch. Whilst looking for some funny pictures to use here as a meme I came across this. Must be dating way back since it mentions 3 WDC's, already back then people knew the name of the game.
However, you cannot take those titles away from him, same as you can't take Schumacher's from him.
Mark Webber was in the same car and I don't recall him dominating so significantly.
I think the issue is in his head rather than his ability. You don't win in Monza like he did in 2008 without ability.
Muzzer79 said:
Horace Van Khute said:
vdn said:
Seb really fading away in front of our very eyes. Shame.
Shame? Exposing a hack is a joy to watch. Whilst looking for some funny pictures to use here as a meme I came across this. Must be dating way back since it mentions 3 WDC's, already back then people knew the name of the game.
However, you cannot take those titles away from him, same as you can't take Schumacher's from him.
Mark Webber was in the same car and I don't recall him dominating so significantly.
I think the issue is in his head rather than his ability. You don't win in Monza like he did in 2008 without ability.
Nobody is going to take away anything from Vettel, he already did it himself by showing how incapable he is in a car that isn't 110%. He's like Jenson Button but 4x more lucky.
vaud said:
I disagree. His style suited the heavily blown RB. He was very quick - even Webber - who was no slouch was clear that Vettel was the faster driver.
You could argue that he hasn't been able to adapt his driving style to the new era cars, but luck doesn't get you 4 x WDCs.
What about 1 WDC?You could argue that he hasn't been able to adapt his driving style to the new era cars, but luck doesn't get you 4 x WDCs.
I wouldn't put Vettel on the same level as Alonso or Hamilton, however he's clearly very, very talented. One of those drivers who spends much of the race thinking outside of the race car. It's no coincidence that he's always been good at overcoming cock ups (by him or the team) and ending further up the field than a middling driver would have done.
It'll be a sad moment when F1 has an Ocon, Kvyat and Gasly on the grid ahead of someone like Vettel.
It'll be a sad moment when F1 has an Ocon, Kvyat and Gasly on the grid ahead of someone like Vettel.
Horace Van Khute said:
vaud said:
I disagree. His style suited the heavily blown RB. He was very quick - even Webber - who was no slouch was clear that Vettel was the faster driver.
You could argue that he hasn't been able to adapt his driving style to the new era cars, but luck doesn't get you 4 x WDCs.
What about 1 WDC?You could argue that he hasn't been able to adapt his driving style to the new era cars, but luck doesn't get you 4 x WDCs.
I would say that was a pretty lucky WDC for Rosberg?
Horace Van Khute said:
Muzzer79 said:
Horace Van Khute said:
vdn said:
Seb really fading away in front of our very eyes. Shame.
Shame? Exposing a hack is a joy to watch. Whilst looking for some funny pictures to use here as a meme I came across this. Must be dating way back since it mentions 3 WDC's, already back then people knew the name of the game.
However, you cannot take those titles away from him, same as you can't take Schumacher's from him.
Mark Webber was in the same car and I don't recall him dominating so significantly.
I think the issue is in his head rather than his ability. You don't win in Monza like he did in 2008 without ability.
Nobody is going to take away anything from Vettel, he already did it himself by showing how incapable he is in a car that isn't 110%. He's like Jenson Button but 4x more lucky.
Yes, they took a risk on set up but let's not forget that Vettel was 21 years old and 22 races in to his F1 career.
He took pole and then drove a cracking race.
As has been said by another, you don't luck in to 4 titles and it can't be all car as Webber would have won a lot more than he did if that were the case.
He was "lucky" in a sense that he got into a car that dominated and really suited his style. Some of his weakness now is because he can't adapt as well to a different style, but that's not to say he wasn't deserving of the success he had.
Joey Deacon said:
Horace Van Khute said:
vaud said:
I disagree. His style suited the heavily blown RB. He was very quick - even Webber - who was no slouch was clear that Vettel was the faster driver.
You could argue that he hasn't been able to adapt his driving style to the new era cars, but luck doesn't get you 4 x WDCs.
What about 1 WDC?You could argue that he hasn't been able to adapt his driving style to the new era cars, but luck doesn't get you 4 x WDCs.
I would say that was a pretty lucky WDC for Rosberg?
From a Hamilton perspective, it suits to say that if his engine hadn't blown he would have achieved this or that but car failures, etc are part and parcel of F1.
Would you say, for example, that Jacques Villeneuve was a lucky WDC in 1997 because if Damon Hill's hydraulics hadn't failed in Hungary then he wouldn't have won and got the points he needed to win the title?
Or Mika Hakkinen was lucky in 1999 because Schumacher broke his leg?
Muzzer79 said:
Horace Van Khute said:
Muzzer79 said:
Horace Van Khute said:
vdn said:
Seb really fading away in front of our very eyes. Shame.
Shame? Exposing a hack is a joy to watch. Whilst looking for some funny pictures to use here as a meme I came across this. Must be dating way back since it mentions 3 WDC's, already back then people knew the name of the game.
However, you cannot take those titles away from him, same as you can't take Schumacher's from him.
Mark Webber was in the same car and I don't recall him dominating so significantly.
I think the issue is in his head rather than his ability. You don't win in Monza like he did in 2008 without ability.
Nobody is going to take away anything from Vettel, he already did it himself by showing how incapable he is in a car that isn't 110%. He's like Jenson Button but 4x more lucky.
Yes, they took a risk on set up but let's not forget that Vettel was 21 years old and 22 races in to his F1 career.
He took pole and then drove a cracking race.
As has been said by another, you don't luck in to 4 titles and it can't be all car as Webber would have won a lot more than he did if that were the case.
He was "lucky" in a sense that he got into a car that dominated and really suited his style. Some of his weakness now is because he can't adapt as well to a different style, but that's not to say he wasn't deserving of the success he had.
My question whether luck can get you 1 WDC still stands - vide Jenson Button. There's not much difference in winning 1 WDC and winning 4 WDC's if you have dominant car and team that is 200% behind you. He's a good driver but he's not great. He had great luck to be in the right place at the right time that's for sure.
Seb definitely has shown brilliance that the average driver couldn't replicate imo. Unfortunately, without a car advantage those moments simply aren't enough to offset his lack of composure and cool headedness. He's an outstanding talent, with an outstanding Achilles heel!
The likelihood of him spinning at least once seems to be every second race for the last couple of years. No inner driver talent can compensate for the fact he's facing the wrong way half the time.
I really will miss him when he goes, he's been a real character on the grid. But the reality is, he's not going to change at this point. He's always going to let things get to him and effect his ability to race on some level.
The likelihood of him spinning at least once seems to be every second race for the last couple of years. No inner driver talent can compensate for the fact he's facing the wrong way half the time.
I really will miss him when he goes, he's been a real character on the grid. But the reality is, he's not going to change at this point. He's always going to let things get to him and effect his ability to race on some level.
Muzzer79 said:
I can't believe I'm going to defend him but....
Yes, they took a risk on set up but let's not forget that Vettel was 21 years old and 22 races in to his F1 career.
He took pole and then drove a cracking race.
Whilst I agree he did drive a cracking race, you can't ignore that Bourdais was only narrowly beaten to 3rd on the grid that weekend too. That was a bit of a "perfect storm" grand prix for Torro Rosso, a bit like Hungary '97 was for Arrows. I don't think it's fair to entirely place the outcome squarely on Vettel's shoulders.Yes, they took a risk on set up but let's not forget that Vettel was 21 years old and 22 races in to his F1 career.
He took pole and then drove a cracking race.
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