Sebastian Vettel
Discussion
Frimley111R said:
The key difference is that I hardly remember JB making any mistakes whereas all we seem to see is SV making error after error. it's not doing his rep any good and its easy to see why Ferrari ditched him.
Despite his lucky timing at RB he is a top driver, just not one as good as 4 titles suggest.
Buttons epic win in Canada where he came from the back had Vettel throwing away the win with a half spin at the end. Despite his lucky timing at RB he is a top driver, just not one as good as 4 titles suggest.
Someone should do a Vettel spin compilation.
jsf said:
Buttons epic win in Canada where he came from the back had Vettel throwing away the win with a half spin at the end.
Someone should do a Vettel spin compilation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L42zsILN9VsSomeone should do a Vettel spin compilation.
You asked.
That's a year out of date, there are around 20 more that should really be added.
vaud said:
I disagree. His style suited the heavily blown RB. He was very quick - even Webber - who was no slouch was clear that Vettel was the faster driver.
You could argue that he hasn't been able to adapt his driving style to the new era cars, but luck doesn't get you 4 x WDCs.
one of the most important things that makes the best the best is adaptability though.You could argue that he hasn't been able to adapt his driving style to the new era cars, but luck doesn't get you 4 x WDCs.
I remember when they banned TC and all the experts on an internet forum were adamant it'd end Alonso as he relied on it more heavily than most, I suggested his willingness to use of one of the tools in the toolbox didn't preclude him living without it, but that got derided...
Lucks a depressingly abused and misused word in F1, but it certainly was opportune for vettel that he found himself in the best car made to regs/concepts that suited perfectly the way he can drive for so long.
Teddy Lop said:
one of the most important things that makes the best the best is adaptability though.
I remember when they banned TC and all the experts on an internet forum were adamant it'd end Alonso as he relied on it more heavily than most, I suggested his willingness to use of one of the tools in the toolbox didn't preclude him living without it, but that got derided...
Lucks a depressingly abused and misused word in F1, but it certainly was opportune for vettel that he found himself in the best car made to regs/concepts that suited perfectly the way he can drive for so long.
I agree 100%. He was right place, right time and right driving style, and able to secure 4 x WDCs in this the process. I remember when they banned TC and all the experts on an internet forum were adamant it'd end Alonso as he relied on it more heavily than most, I suggested his willingness to use of one of the tools in the toolbox didn't preclude him living without it, but that got derided...
Lucks a depressingly abused and misused word in F1, but it certainly was opportune for vettel that he found himself in the best car made to regs/concepts that suited perfectly the way he can drive for so long.
Is he flawed? Yes. Were other WDCS flawed? Yup. Will I regard him in the same light as Senna/Hamilton? Nope. Maybe a Prost, but with a better sense of humour.
vaud said:
I agree 100%. He was right place, right time and right driving style, and able to secure 4 x WDCs in this the process.
Is he flawed? Yes. Were other WDCS flawed? Yup. Will I regard him in the same light as Senna/Hamilton? Nope. Maybe a Prost, but with a better sense of humour.
I certainly would not rate him on the same level as Prost.Is he flawed? Yes. Were other WDCS flawed? Yup. Will I regard him in the same light as Senna/Hamilton? Nope. Maybe a Prost, but with a better sense of humour.
Edited by paulguitar on Monday 6th July 19:49
TheDeuce said:
At the end of the day... The best team is supposed to win. The only reason we started GP racing in the first place was to identify the best team.
The closest we ever got to seeing F1 drivers in the same machinery, same track was bizarrely old Top Gear, which at the height of its popularity had endless F1 drivers driving the same reasonably priced car
I'm not sure that was the reason for F1. It's a sport. The way to make a sport more interesting - ie gaining more fans - is to have a season-long competition, in the case of F1, two. The closest we ever got to seeing F1 drivers in the same machinery, same track was bizarrely old Top Gear, which at the height of its popularity had endless F1 drivers driving the same reasonably priced car
In any case, best is not a precise word. It is open to too many interpretations. There used to be seasons where teams had to dump some of their results. Not really the way to find the 'best' in many interpretations of the word.
Derek Smith said:
TheDeuce said:
At the end of the day... The best team is supposed to win. The only reason we started GP racing in the first place was to identify the best team.
The closest we ever got to seeing F1 drivers in the same machinery, same track was bizarrely old Top Gear, which at the height of its popularity had endless F1 drivers driving the same reasonably priced car
I'm not sure that was the reason for F1. It's a sport. The way to make a sport more interesting - ie gaining more fans - is to have a season-long competition, in the case of F1, two. The closest we ever got to seeing F1 drivers in the same machinery, same track was bizarrely old Top Gear, which at the height of its popularity had endless F1 drivers driving the same reasonably priced car
In any case, best is not a precise word. It is open to too many interpretations. There used to be seasons where teams had to dump some of their results. Not really the way to find the 'best' in many interpretations of the word.
Naturally that brings in team budgets... And there has always been the element of 'buying performance' by simply having a bigger budget. Even ahead of of the incoming cost caps, I think that has kind of resolved itself though. The way I watch view the competition these days, is to split it in to effectively two championship series. There is the battle for 1st.. which has this era been between 3 teams with vaguely similar budget levels. Then there is the battle for 4th, with everyone else with budgets in a similar bracket (mostly). The sponsors and marketing have also got behind the value of finishing 4th. So long as multiple teams are going for the same target, it has good potential as sport.
And this year.. just look at how many teams are closely aligned for either the battle for 1st or for 4th. And that has happened ahead of cost caps or the new scaled aero development time. F1 has effectively governed itself in to creating good sport regardless of the budget imbalance because of course, all teams need to create good sport in order to get sponsors on board. Hence the battle for 4th being created and marketed.
paulguitar said:
vaud said:
I agree 100%. He was right place, right time and right driving style, and able to secure 4 x WDCs in this the process.
Is he flawed? Yes. Were other WDCS flawed? Yup. Will I regard him in the same light as Senna/Hamilton? Nope. Maybe a Prost, but with a better sense of humour.
I certainly would not rate him on the same level as Prost.Is he flawed? Yes. Were other WDCS flawed? Yup. Will I regard him in the same light as Senna/Hamilton? Nope. Maybe a Prost, but with a better sense of humour.
Comparing Vettel to Prost is like comparing Little Mix to The Beatles!
Edited by paulguitar on Monday 6th July 19:49
TheDeuce said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L42zsILN9Vs
You asked.
That's a year out of date, there are around 20 more that should really be added.
"MISSION SPINNOW" You asked.
That's a year out of date, there are around 20 more that should really be added.
that is quite an incredible number of spins there already... does he just keep forgetting which car he's in now?
vaud said:
Teddy Lop said:
one of the most important things that makes the best the best is adaptability though.
I remember when they banned TC and all the experts on an internet forum were adamant it'd end Alonso as he relied on it more heavily than most, I suggested his willingness to use of one of the tools in the toolbox didn't preclude him living without it, but that got derided...
Lucks a depressingly abused and misused word in F1, but it certainly was opportune for vettel that he found himself in the best car made to regs/concepts that suited perfectly the way he can drive for so long.
I agree 100%. He was right place, right time and right driving style, and able to secure 4 x WDCs in this the process. I remember when they banned TC and all the experts on an internet forum were adamant it'd end Alonso as he relied on it more heavily than most, I suggested his willingness to use of one of the tools in the toolbox didn't preclude him living without it, but that got derided...
Lucks a depressingly abused and misused word in F1, but it certainly was opportune for vettel that he found himself in the best car made to regs/concepts that suited perfectly the way he can drive for so long.
Is he flawed? Yes. Were other WDCS flawed? Yup. Will I regard him in the same light as Senna/Hamilton? Nope. Maybe a Prost, but with a better sense of humour.
EDIT: You're right about the sense of humour though.
Schermerhorn said:
He needs a change of atmosphere.
He would fit more in with a British based team - less politics, more straight forward and less nonsense to deal with it in the media.
'Alright lads, off you go"
Not discounting moves to Mercedes or Renault at all.
Mercedes definately not as there is just no reason or benefit for them, Renault possibly, however I've a funny feeling that a certain Spaniard may soon be announced as returning. He would fit more in with a British based team - less politics, more straight forward and less nonsense to deal with it in the media.
'Alright lads, off you go"
Not discounting moves to Mercedes or Renault at all.
I don't think we'll see Vettel competing next year.
HTP99 said:
Schermerhorn said:
He needs a change of atmosphere.
He would fit more in with a British based team - less politics, more straight forward and less nonsense to deal with it in the media.
'Alright lads, off you go"
Not discounting moves to Mercedes or Renault at all.
Mercedes definately not as there is just no reason or benefit for them, Renault possibly, however I've a funny feeling that a certain Spaniard may soon be announced as returning. He would fit more in with a British based team - less politics, more straight forward and less nonsense to deal with it in the media.
'Alright lads, off you go"
Not discounting moves to Mercedes or Renault at all.
I don't think we'll see Vettel competing next year.
Durzel said:
I would even go further and say that at least 2 of Vettel's WDCs were actually close, so there was pressure there, the likes of which doesn't seem to really exist now.
Which actually proves how average Vettel really is. With all the advantages he had in those years it should have been easy. He had no competition from his team-mate and a car that should have been about 1 second a lap faster than any other car.KevinCamaroSS said:
Which actually proves how average Vettel really is. With all the advantages he had in those years it should have been easy. He had no competition from his team-mate and a car that should have been about 1 second a lap faster than any other car.
I wouldn't say no competition entirely. Look at 2010, Webber was all set to take the title right up until the last round, and his main rival was considered to be Alonso, not Vettel. It's was only really down to dodgy strategy decisions and the Petrov roadblock that let Sebastian sneak in for the crown. On reflection you could still argue Webber had a stronger season, especially taking in to consideration events like the front wing debacle at Silverstone and the clash at Istanbul - it was pretty clear that Vettel was the golden boy. I think from 2011 on it was more a case of the driving style required for optimising the Red Bull had altered in Vettel's favour, rather than Webber being crap.KevinCamaroSS said:
Durzel said:
I would even go further and say that at least 2 of Vettel's WDCs were actually close, so there was pressure there, the likes of which doesn't seem to really exist now.
Which actually proves how average Vettel really is. With all the advantages he had in those years it should have been easy. He had no competition from his team-mate and a car that should have been about 1 second a lap faster than any other car.In the entire hybrid era, there has been only 1 other team apart from Merc that regularly competed for wins. However, for the first 3 year period of this era (2014-2016), it was an uncontested run for Merc. Vettel's championships were won in an era that was far more competitive at the front than the Merc championships.
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