Sebastian Vettel

[trackdemon]

There isn't an in season upgrade in existence that equates to 2.4secs, not that practice times necessarily mean that much. Q1 now, currently 0.9 off which is rubbish but more realistic...

[vaud]

MB140 said:

Just watching the Imola practice (recorded), currently Vettel is 2.4 seconds a lap slower than CLC and Vettel has had times deleted (so must be pushing the limits)

Unless it’s different fuel loads I just can’t help but think Ferrari are hindering Vettel in some way. Either through slowing Vettel car (don’t believe that) or just not giving him the same upgrades as CLC.

Vettel just doesn’t go from racing wheel to wheel with CLC last season to 2.4 seconds behind him this season.

Something funny is going on.

He was running hard tyres on a very long stint, so totally different practice strategy and he has never raced Imola.

[MB140]

Valid points. Thank you guys. Less than a second at the end of P1. Still seems a country mile in F1 terms.

[trackdemon]

14th, behind a Williams whilst Charlie goes to Q3 again. He's lost it

[Frimley111R]

trackdemon said:

14th, behind a Williams whilst Charlie goes to Q3 again. He's lost it

Totally, if he wasn't a 4 time WC he'd be out of F1 by now. Can't say I'd be looking forward to seeing him join my team next year. Stroll will thrash him. If it wasn't embarrassing enough.....

[vulture1]

Frimley111R said:

trackdemon said:

14th, behind a Williams whilst Charlie goes to Q3 again. He's lost it

Totally, if he wasn't a 4 time WC he'd be out of F1 by now. Can't say I'd be looking forward to seeing him join my team next year. Stroll will thrash him. If it wasn't embarrassing enough.....

If Vettel doesn't totally thrash Stroll next season with stand out performances his already diminished reps will drop even further.

[TheDeuce]

trackdemon said:

14th, behind a Williams whilst Charlie goes to Q3 again. He's lost it

Either that or Ferrari have lost his interest 100%

Probably a mix of the two... He's definitely driving like a prat but at least part of that has to do with him being butthurt about being booted and replaced by a younger model. It's not as if Seb doesn't have a history of driving terribly after an insult/upset!

[trackdemon]

Frimley111R said:

trackdemon said:

14th, behind a Williams whilst Charlie goes to Q3 again. He's lost it

Totally, if he wasn't a 4 time WC he'd be out of F1 by now. Can't say I'd be looking forward to seeing him join my team next year. Stroll will thrash him. If it wasn't embarrassing enough.....

I think it's a tricky one for Seb, if he's even a tenth off Stroll it'll be seen as confirmation 'he's past it'. He needs to beat Stroll, no question. I'm not convinced he'll do that, ditching Perez will look even worse....

[Schermerhorn]

I have a theory......

Vettel is deliberately underperforming so Ferrari don't enough constructors points and Tracing Point get 3rd in the WCC.....


(Just kidding btw)....

I think its a number of factors:

He has been frozen out of any technical briefings since before the 1st race. So his input is not considered enough to the development of the car. All bias is towards Charles now. He is their future (until he fails to win a WDC and leaves too out of frustration...)

The set up and direction of the car is gradually moving towards Leclerc. Two polar opposites.

He has fallen out with top management and he has mentally checked out. His recent interview alluded to this.

It's very hard to believe a 4x WDC becomes a bum while still in his physical prime......last year there was nowhere near this gap between them both so it's hard to understand how it can happen over one winter break....

Edited by Schermerhorn on Saturday 31st October 16:51

[Schermerhorn]

trackdemon said:

Frimley111R said:

trackdemon said:

14th, behind a Williams whilst Charlie goes to Q3 again. He's lost it

Totally, if he wasn't a 4 time WC he'd be out of F1 by now. Can't say I'd be looking forward to seeing him join my team next year. Stroll will thrash him. If it wasn't embarrassing enough.....

I think it's a tricky one for Seb, if he's even a tenth off Stroll it'll be seen as confirmation 'he's past it'. He needs to beat Stroll, no question. I'm not convinced he'll do that, ditching Perez will look even worse....

Stroll will have no problem ruining his own races.

[Gazzab]

If he only beats stroll by 0.3 of a second or less in qualifying then that proves he is past it. He needs to beat him by 0.5 to 1.0 to prove he still has it.

[Schermerhorn]

Gazzab said:

If he only beats stroll by 0.3 of a second or less in qualifying then that proves he is past it. He needs to beat him by 0.5 to 1.0 to prove he still has it.

He just needs to beat him convincingly. All of these guys are probably within a few tenths of each other.

[Gad-Westy]

Stroll is nowhere near as slow as people on here make out. He's just bit hot headed at times. We've had far worse drivers in F1 than Stroll.

Vettel is a strange one. It really isn't long ago since he was spanking Kimi week in week out and challenging for the title. Last season, despite him seemingly having a shocker he was still pretty much neck and neck with CLC. Had a better start to the season than end. But this year he's way off the pace. I don't think it's just a dip in form, it really seems that this car is just totally at odds with his driving style. He's slow and prone to errors which I suspect is coming from trying to overdrive to compensate. I haven't quite written SV off yet. Really hope to see some form from him with a fresh start next year.

[KR158]

Seb the Man has always come across as a good Egg. Seb the driver however, has always been harder to like. Even so, I find it hard to believe that he's just given up. He's known for having a love of the sport's history, the stats & legacy. Giving up just doesn't tie in with this at all & I can't see Ferrari knobling his Car, too much Money at stake. It's hard to believe that CLC is THAT much faster. The whole situation is......strange.

[TheDeuce]

Gad-Westy said:

Stroll is nowhere near as slow as people on here make out. He's just bit hot headed at times. We've had far worse drivers in F1 than Stroll.

Vettel is a strange one. It really isn't long ago since he was spanking Kimi week in week out and challenging for the title. Last season, despite him seemingly having a shocker he was still pretty much neck and neck with CLC. Had a better start to the season than end. But this year he's way off the pace. I don't think it's just a dip in form, it really seems that this car is just totally at odds with his driving style. He's slow and prone to errors which I suspect is coming from trying to overdrive to compensate. I haven't quite written SV off yet. Really hope to see some form from him with a fresh start next year.

I agree that he can't personally have lost so much time a lap compared to his 2018 & 2019 self. But seriously, how many times are we going to conclude it's the car that's causing the problem - not the driver!? He's an F1 driver, being able to get at least passable results out of these cars Vs his team mate is pretty much the minimum requirement.

I firmly believe the biggest part of the problem right now is that he's locked out of the Ferrari inner circle - and worse still, he doesn't give a toss about the team he's driving for.

That's not to say he's still 'got it', I don't know either way. But a decade later I've seen enough of seb to know he definitely won't be trying to flatter Ferrari right now..

[Gad-Westy]

TheDeuce said:

Gad-Westy said:

Stroll is nowhere near as slow as people on here make out. He's just bit hot headed at times. We've had far worse drivers in F1 than Stroll.

Vettel is a strange one. It really isn't long ago since he was spanking Kimi week in week out and challenging for the title. Last season, despite him seemingly having a shocker he was still pretty much neck and neck with CLC. Had a better start to the season than end. But this year he's way off the pace. I don't think it's just a dip in form, it really seems that this car is just totally at odds with his driving style. He's slow and prone to errors which I suspect is coming from trying to overdrive to compensate. I haven't quite written SV off yet. Really hope to see some form from him with a fresh start next year.

I agree that he can't personally have lost so much time a lap compared to his 2018 & 2019 self. But seriously, how many times are we going to conclude it's the car that's causing the problem - not the driver!? He's an F1 driver, being able to get at least passable results out of these cars Vs his team mate is pretty much the minimum requirement.

I firmly believe the biggest part of the problem right now is that he's locked out of the Ferrari inner circle - and worse still, he doesn't give a toss about the team he's driving for.

That's not to say he's still 'got it', I don't know either way. But a decade later I've seen enough of seb to know he definitely won't be trying to flatter Ferrari right now..

The car thing isn't an unreasonable conclusion though. Look at Gasly in the TR/AT vs his performance in the RB. Ideally a driver would be able to drive the socks of anything but maybe that just isn't case for some.

[TheDeuce]

Gad-Westy said:

The car thing isn't an unreasonable conclusion though. Look at Gasly in the TR/AT vs his performance in the RB. Ideally a driver would be able to drive the socks of anything but maybe that just isn't case for some.

I really think history suggests that it isn't the case for some. It's not unreasonable to conclude that in a world of infinite variety some drivers will only have the scope for a certain style of car. In some cases, it might be very specific.

I also think it's an exacerbated problem as the regs have tightened and the designers have had to go to more extreme lengths down narrow channels of development to get the best performance. Clearly the 2020 red bull is an awesome car in terms of potential - but next to useless in anything but the perfect pair of hands.

[Muzzer79]

He hasn’t forgetter how to drive

I think it’s a case of a lack of motivation but, more significantly, a car that doesn’t suit him but suits LeClerc better.

Look at 2014 - he went from winning the last 9 races of 2013 on the bounce to nothing in 2014. Then, with a fresh impetus at Ferrari in 2015, he did significantly better.

I don’t doubt he’ll improve at Aston Martin next year.

[TheDeuce]

Muzzer79 said:

He hasn’t forgetter how to drive

I think it’s a case of a lack of motivation but, more significantly, a car that doesn’t suit him but suits LeClerc better.

Look at 2014 - he went from winning the last 9 races of 2013 on the bounce to nothing in 2014. Then, with a fresh impetus at Ferrari in 2015, he did significantly better.

I don’t doubt he’ll improve at Aston Martin next year.

We'll he has to, I expect he will.

He sodding well better do!

EDIT: If he can at least get through 50%+ of races without the car facing the wrong way round, it would be progress..

Edited by TheDeuce on Saturday 31st October 21:39

[Schermerhorn]

TheDeuce said:

Gad-Westy said:

Stroll is nowhere near as slow as people on here make out. He's just bit hot headed at times. We've had far worse drivers in F1 than Stroll.

Vettel is a strange one. It really isn't long ago since he was spanking Kimi week in week out and challenging for the title. Last season, despite him seemingly having a shocker he was still pretty much neck and neck with CLC. Had a better start to the season than end. But this year he's way off the pace. I don't think it's just a dip in form, it really seems that this car is just totally at odds with his driving style. He's slow and prone to errors which I suspect is coming from trying to overdrive to compensate. I haven't quite written SV off yet. Really hope to see some form from him with a fresh start next year.

I agree that he can't personally have lost so much time a lap compared to his 2018 & 2019 self. But seriously, how many times are we going to conclude it's the car that's causing the problem - not the driver!? He's an F1 driver, being able to get at least passable results out of these cars Vs his team mate is pretty much the minimum requirement.

I firmly believe the biggest part of the problem right now is that he's locked out of the Ferrari inner circle - and worse still, he doesn't give a toss about the team he's driving for.

That's not to say he's still 'got it', I don't know either way. But a decade later I've seen enough of seb to know he definitely won't be trying to flatter Ferrari right now..

....but if the car is not running the same updates and upgrades as the other car then it can explain a lot.

At the Nurburgring, Vettel only got limited running with the new updates and had limited data. I think it was between FP3 and Q1 when he got the updates whereas Leclrerc had been running them all Friday and on Saturday morning too.

It's not like there was a shortage or late delivery of the parts either. The team just didnt put them onto the car until Qualifying. Bizarre.