Sebastian Vettel

Sebastian Vettel

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RichB

45,195 posts

250 months

Thursday
quotequote all
Siao said:
Glad we sorted this out. In the meantime I'll be waiting for some Schumacher, Senna and Alonso examples driving
Or not, seeing as this thread is titled Sebastian Vettel sleep

thegreenhell

8,672 posts

185 months

Thursday
quotequote all
RichB said:
Siao said:
Glad we sorted this out. In the meantime I'll be waiting for some Schumacher, Senna and Alonso examples driving
Or not, seeing as this thread is titled Sebastian Vettel sleep
Indeed. Perhaps start a new thread about team orders if you want to pursue that avenue of discussion further.

Siao

97 posts

6 months

Thursday
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
RichB said:
Siao said:
Glad we sorted this out. In the meantime I'll be waiting for some Schumacher, Senna and Alonso examples driving
Or not, seeing as this thread is titled Sebastian Vettel sleep
Indeed. Perhaps start a new thread about team orders if you want to pursue that avenue of discussion further.
Well that's the whole point; there's no need...

So back on topic, Vettel got the DOTD vote, all well!

groomi

9,280 posts

209 months

That Jordan scenario needs putting into context. It was their first ever win (for all they knew, it could be their only win), it was a 1-2 and they had hired the experienced ex-champion Hill for precisely the reason of elevating the team both in terms of performance and stature.

Whether the subsequent team orders were the right sporting decision, they were unquestionably the right business decision.

Was it the following year that Frentzen kept in WC contention nearly all season? The ability to do that started here.

thegreenhell

8,672 posts

185 months

We should also remember that was the race with the infamous 13 car pile up at the start, and the Schumacher/Couthard lapping incident, plus numerous other spins and crashes in torrential conditions. There were only half a dozen or so cars running by the end of the race. It wasn't a day to be tempting fate by having both your cars going for the same piece of the race track.

DaveE87

416 posts

101 months

I found it difficult to like Seb when he was winning everything as I wasn't a fan of him back then. I remember when he won his first championship in the last race at Abu Dhabi.... I wanted Fred to win at the time because overall he's the better driver. But now, looking back, I'm quite happy to see Seb with 4 titles and Fred with 2. Even with Seb's flaws I've warmed to him over the years like I think many others have too. He has the ruthless streak that most if not all multiple champions do, but without the sthousery that we've seen Fred do to teams.

I'm a Lewis fan and I have been since before his day one in F1, but I'll be sad when Seb retires as he's a bit of a character.

Siao

97 posts

6 months

groomi said:
That Jordan scenario needs putting into context. It was their first ever win (for all they knew, it could be their only win), it was a 1-2 and they had hired the experienced ex-champion Hill for precisely the reason of elevating the team both in terms of performance and stature.

Whether the subsequent team orders were the right sporting decision, they were unquestionably the right business decision.

Was it the following year that Frentzen kept in WC contention nearly all season? The ability to do that started here.
Ok, a bit more context then. Ralf had his car set up for a wet race, Damon didn't, which also explains the great difference in pace. The issue you have in this situation is a similar scenario to what happened in Abu Dhabi in 2016, the slower driver ahead with the faster car stuck behind and in danger of being attacked by the third driver. A fast approaching Alesi could have attacked Ralf. He obviously didn't (helped by the fact that the rain picked up again), but that's all in hindsight, they didn't know it back then. The obvious solution is to release the faster driver and hope that the slower one can hold off the fast approaching car behind, otherwise they can both get attacked.

Jordan himself mentioned in his book how he perceived Hill's message: "He was very calm and very measured but the implication was very clear. He was effectively saying, ‘Call Ralf off. Don’t force me to do something stupid and risk everything.’". Doesn't matter how we view it in the end of the day, Jordan himself read it like this. I still see this like a very mild (or maybe not so mild) insinuation, but each to his own. I do not blame Damon one bit, he did very well for himself.

After all everyone was happy to see Jordan win. And may I add that they had some of the most beautiful liveries in F1, which made me root for them even more!

Siao

97 posts

6 months

DaveE87 said:
I found it difficult to like Seb when he was winning everything as I wasn't a fan of him back then. I remember when he won his first championship in the last race at Abu Dhabi.... I wanted Fred to win at the time because overall he's the better driver. But now, looking back, I'm quite happy to see Seb with 4 titles and Fred with 2. Even with Seb's flaws I've warmed to him over the years like I think many others have too. He has the ruthless streak that most if not all multiple champions do, but without the sthousery that we've seen Fred do to teams.

I'm a Lewis fan and I have been since before his day one in F1, but I'll be sad when Seb retires as he's a bit of a character.
I mostly agree, although I'd be happy if there was 3 titles Seb and 3 for Alonso. As much as a menace to the teams as he is, Alonso is a fantastic driver and I think a lot of people agree that just 2 titles possibly do not reflect the skills of the man who managed to stop Schumacher.

ajprice

20,552 posts

162 months

When Seb does a debrief, settle in for a long one hehe
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.vettel-...

Condi

12,052 posts

137 months

ajprice said:
When Seb does a debrief, settle in for a long one hehe
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.vettel-...
He must be one of the most intelligent F1 drivers at the moment. The way he was thinking about the strategy at Ferrari while racing at 120mph as well was incredible, although he must be happier now with a pit wall he can trust to do sensible things.

AM will get a lot out of him even if he never gets near another world championship title.

kiseca

9,073 posts

185 months

Condi said:
ajprice said:
When Seb does a debrief, settle in for a long one hehe
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.vettel-...
He must be one of the most intelligent F1 drivers at the moment. The way he was thinking about the strategy at Ferrari while racing at 120mph as well was incredible, although he must be happier now with a pit wall he can trust to do sensible things.

AM will get a lot out of him even if he never gets near another world championship title.
4 weeks ago when so many people were writing him off I was saying it's too early yet. He's learning the car, learning the team, has had some bad luck. Let the season play out and then make a judgement.

I'll say the same thing now. He's had two good races. I'm happy he has, because I'm one of the many who didn't like him at Red Bull but have grown to like him since. I like seeing him have success. It's two races. He could be in for a good season, it could be a blip. I think we need to wait longer to see whether he's good value for Aston Martin.

Yes he's giving good, valuable feedback in the debriefing room but for that to be value, it has to consistently pay off on the track. That's where the value is. If he gives all that feedback in the back room but then goes out on track and has another 2020, the team won't trust him.

I think it's an upturn personally, I think we'll see more good performances from him, but it's too early to say still.

trackdemon

10,988 posts

227 months

kiseca said:
I think it's an upturn personally, I think we'll see more good performances from him, but it's too early to say still.
Sensible. Hope you're right