Sebastian Vettel

Sebastian Vettel

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TheDeuce

2,797 posts

11 months

Tuesday 10th September
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Mr_Thyroid said:
Vettel has now racked up enough penalty points to be, potentially, one incident from an race ban. If memory serves he also reached this tally in 2017 - is he the worst driver for accruing penalty points?
No no no...

He's the BEST driver at accruing penalty points smile

C'mon, he once drove in to Lewis by mistake and was so pissed off at himself he pulled up alongside and drove in to him again on purpose! No one is going to beat that level of form wink

Edited by TheDeuce on Tuesday 10th September 21:55

Teddy Lop

1,594 posts

12 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
Mr_Thyroid said:
Vettel has now racked up enough penalty points to be, potentially, one incident from an race ban.
in theory. Unlikely to happen though isn't it?

vdn

6,653 posts

148 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
No no no...

He's the BEST driver at accruing penalty points smile

C'mon, he once drove in to Lewis by mistake and was so pissed off at himself he pulled up alongside and drove in to him again on purpose! No one is going to beat that level of form wink

Edited by TheDeuce on Tuesday 10th September 21:55
hehe

HTP99

14,851 posts

85 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
vdn said:
TheDeuce said:
No no no...

He's the BEST driver at accruing penalty points smile

C'mon, he once drove in to Lewis by mistake and was so pissed off at himself he pulled up alongside and drove in to him again on purpose! No one is going to beat that level of form wink

Edited by TheDeuce on Tuesday 10th September 21:55
hehe
How he didn't get black flagged for that, I've no idea; intentionally ramming an opponent FFS, got away with the Charlie F rant too, which was a disgrace.

ajprice

16,427 posts

141 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
Teddy Lop said:
Mr_Thyroid said:
Vettel has now racked up enough penalty points to be, potentially, one incident from an race ban.
in theory. Unlikely to happen though isn't it?
On the rolling 12 months for points, he's within 3 points of a ban until the end of the Japanese GP. 3 races to stack up 3 points, I wouldn't rule it out.

Deesee

2,756 posts

28 months

Wednesday 11th September
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Heres the current and all time penalty points list

https://f1statblog.co.uk/f1-penalty-points/

Can you guess who’s 1/2??


Teddy Lop

1,594 posts

12 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
ajprice said:
Teddy Lop said:
Mr_Thyroid said:
Vettel has now racked up enough penalty points to be, potentially, one incident from an race ban.
in theory. Unlikely to happen though isn't it?
On the rolling 12 months for points, he's within 3 points of a ban until the end of the Japanese GP. 3 races to stack up 3 points, I wouldn't rule it out.
I've always seen the points as something of a gesture, a show of punishment TBH. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the stewards "just happened" to not give him points for an offence when said points would have him banned under totting up.

ajprice

16,427 posts

141 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
Teddy Lop said:
I've always seen the points as something of a gesture, a show of punishment TBH. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the stewards "just happened" to not give him points for an offence when said points would have him banned under totting up.
Depends on the level of muppetry by him, anything like Monza again and he's out.

Andy S15

379 posts

72 months

Wednesday 11th September
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I have warmed to Seb over the years and truly take no pleasure in watching this current downturn, it makes me physically uncomfortable to watch these things happen.

However, when does it get to the point where instead of saying you don't win 4 WDC's without skill, to saying he was lucky to get 4 WDC's with his skill? Is it really that hard to accept that he just might have lucked into a good car, which suited his style, without much solid competition, and rarely had to do much overtaking? Is that situation really that hard to accept?

It's not a nice thing to think about, but the evidence sure is mounting. I hope he pulls himself together. For his sake, for Ferrari's sake, for F1's sake. I don't like watching this happen.

vaud

33,183 posts

100 months

Wednesday 11th September
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There is a very good article on Autosport (plus) by Edd Straw on Vettel.

sparta6

1,330 posts

45 months

Wednesday 11th September
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Andy S15 said:
I have warmed to Seb over the years and truly take no pleasure in watching this current downturn, it makes me physically uncomfortable to watch these things happen.

However, when does it get to the point where instead of saying you don't win 4 WDC's without skill, to saying he was lucky to get 4 WDC's with his skill? Is it really that hard to accept that he just might have lucked into a good car, which suited his style, without much solid competition, and rarely had to do much overtaking? Is that situation really that hard to accept?

It's not a nice thing to think about, but the evidence sure is mounting. I hope he pulls himself together. For his sake, for Ferrari's sake, for F1's sake. I don't like watching this happen.
I agree.

Seb was blindingly fast in that Red Bull, and Webber was a tough competitor.

He has a Ferrari that doesn't perfectly suit his driving style, and his performance has dropped off as a result.
This is not uncommon in modern F1.
Hamilton's performance dropped off in the non-perfect McLaren from 2009 - and there are very few drivers who can hustle a car not to their liking these days.
Alonso was one exception, and Max is the current exception.
Vettel delivered a great perfomance at Hockenheim and it would be good to see another before the season ends.

OFORBES

225 posts

45 months

Wednesday 11th September
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Whilst I wouldnt say I was a Ferrari or Seb Vettel fan, I like him as a person (from what I've seen in the media over his career). He has a wicked sense of humour, sharp wit and warming overall personality.

Whilst some of his mistakes under pressure as a multiple champion boggle my mind, his overall downturn in performance is very sad to see.

Will he be able to turn it around? Ferrari, whilst they might not be that happy with his performance, they still seem to be backing him. Would Seb be happy to play second driver/supporting to CLC next season if he continues to out perform him for the rest of 2019? I'm not so sure....

But I can see Seb staying (unless pushed) next year regardless. Ferrari obviously have the romantic idea of bringing Mick to the team, but 2020 will be too early for him I think

oyster

9,251 posts

193 months

Wednesday 11th September
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kiseca said:
Frimley111R said:
HTP99 said:
He's also never been great under pressure and never been the best overtaker either.
A lot was said about his ability to overtake but most of it was based on him getting into the RB and not having to overtake anyone for 4 years! But when he did have to he showed he can overtake as well as anyone.

I'm glad he's not great under pressure otherwise JB would never have won that incredible 2011 Canadian grand Prix. hehe
I don't think overtaking was ever his strong point. I remember one year he had to fight his way up through the field in what.. well I think it was a championship decider. And he made it, which was good, but he hit a couple of cars along the way and I think lost a wing at one point as well. So he did it, but was a fine line away from binning it instead. Then there was the time he crashed into Button while trying to overtake him.

I think his overtaking, on a good day, is the equal of anyone else on an average day...
I remember him overtaking Alonso, on the outside, on the grass, at nearly 200mph round Curva Grande.

I guess all our memories are selective based on opinions of the driver involved!

kiseca

7,560 posts

164 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
Andy S15 said:
I have warmed to Seb over the years and truly take no pleasure in watching this current downturn, it makes me physically uncomfortable to watch these things happen.

However, when does it get to the point where instead of saying you don't win 4 WDC's without skill, to saying he was lucky to get 4 WDC's with his skill? Is it really that hard to accept that he just might have lucked into a good car, which suited his style, without much solid competition, and rarely had to do much overtaking? Is that situation really that hard to accept?

It's not a nice thing to think about, but the evidence sure is mounting. I hope he pulls himself together. For his sake, for Ferrari's sake, for F1's sake. I don't like watching this happen.
It's a team sport, it's never all luck, and it's always some luck, the right person in the right car backed by the right team. Best combination in the year wins. He made that Red Bull work in a way that Webber couldn't emulate. And once he won his first championship, he got stronger and stronger as he went through them and got more experienced at winning, and while in 2010 Webber gave him a good run, from then on Seb went had the upper hand and steadily grew the gap.

Yes, he needs a car that works for his strengths, I think genuinely there are few drivers who would be equally fast regardless of the car's character and even so Seb seems to have a fairly small window for optimum performance. Yet he still had the edge over Kimi, who's getting on a bit now but still manages to drag good results out of cars.

Schumacher seemed more adaptable than most but when he came back, but his strengths were commitment to preparation, and an ability to drive consistently on the edge of grip for long periods. Lack of testing rules, and the joke tyres that overheated when driven too fast would have negated much of his advantage. Keke Rosberg couldn't keep up with Prost at McLaren and was so impressed with Prost's speed that he thought Senna didn't have a chance in that team. Yet it's also known that Keke liked a well planted front axle and Prost preferred understeer - as does Alonso - and it took him most of the season to get to grips with the car. In his last race with the team he was actually well on the pace.

Clark is the only one I can think of who was particularly famous for having no particular preferences. Alonso is adaptable but prefers a balance towards understeer, Button I think is the same. Schumacher and Hamilton if I recall both prefer the front to be absolutely locked down. Seb was exceptional at exploiting the blown diffuser and getting on the power expecting to get more grip instead of lose some.

Despite 4 world championships I don't rate Seb up there with many drivers who have achieved less, but he played his part in his own success. Right guy at the right time, but at that time he was the best guy available for the job - or at worst one of two or three who could have done it. That's my opinion, anyway.




paulguitar

3,368 posts

58 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
Hamilton's performance dropped off in the non-perfect McLaren from 2009
What happened in 2009 was that McLaren started the year with a car rather well beyond ’not perfect’, it was truly, hopelessly uncompetitive, but they solved some of their issues during the season.

Once they had done that, Hamilton won with it. (Twice IIRC).

A quick look at Alonso and Button in the Mclaren Honda is an excellent example that sometimes a car just won't be able to get the job done, whoever's peddling.



Andy S15

379 posts

72 months

Wednesday 11th September
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kiseca said:
That's my opinion, anyway.
Thanks for the well worded reply. Very well said, sir.

Oilchange

5,655 posts

205 months

Wednesday 11th September
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And if you think the team management didn’t give him various tweeks and critical times over Webbers car you’re deluded.

37chevy

2,820 posts

101 months

Wednesday 11th September
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Oilchange said:
And if you think the team management didn’t give him various tweeks and critical times over Webbers car you’re deluded.
Not only that but he also got first choice of parts over webber

sparta6

1,330 posts

45 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
37chevy said:
Not only that but he also got first choice of parts over webber
So Seb was prepared to play guinea pig.

New parts can also decrease performance / reliability

Dynamic Space Wizard

661 posts

49 months

Wednesday 11th September
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sparta6 said:
37chevy said:
Not only that but he also got first choice of parts over webber
So Seb was prepared to play guinea pig.

New parts can also decrease performance / reliability
That's where the choice came in.