Sebastian Vettel

Sebastian Vettel

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Muzzer79

9,806 posts

186 months

Sunday 15th September 2019
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Poppiecock said:
Whatever.

Put Seb in that team and he’d be on 8 titles? Alonso on 6? Button on 5? Pre accident Massa would have had a few, too. What if Schumacher hadn’t taken his 2nd retirement? Would he now be on 10?

If McLaren hadn’t dropped off a cliff, would the signing have even happened?

It’s all down to right place at right time.

Composed and consistent came after most dominant car in history. The McLaren wilderness years were almost the polar opposite.
Lots of ifs and maybes there

F1 has always been about right place and right time.

You could argue that Senna only won his titles due to the dominance of the McLaren package of the time.

Brundle could have been WDC if Williams had taken him instead of Hill in 93, maybe multiple times.

Rosberg dominated Schumacher when they were teammates, no reason to think that would have changed if he’d stayed.

One of the hallmarks of a good driver is knowing where to move to and getting yourself in a position to move.

I am no Hamilton Uber-fan, but his record of winning a race every season he’s been active in F1, across 12 years, 2 major regulation changes and two teams, singles him out for me.

Anyway, to try and keep some resemblance of staying on topic, I’m going to shout out a theory completely off a hunch:

Vettel to retire at the end of the year, Kimi goes back to Ferrari for the second year of his deal until they can get a long term replacement. smile

37chevy

3,280 posts

155 months

Sunday 15th September 2019
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Has won at least 1 race in every season of his F1 career

Has had 3 world champions as his teammates and has beaten them all.

Considered as the best drivers of his generation and one of the best of all time by his peers

Tells me all I need to know about Lewis

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Sunday 15th September 2019
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swisstoni said:
What you seem to forget is that Hamilton had Rosberg to deal with in his own garage for four years.
Rosberg had to work so hard and dedicate himself totally for the year to match Hamilton, plus pull some dodgy moves and benefit from reliability. He threw the towel in after such an effort, because he knew he couldn't sustain that any longer.

Thats how good Hamilton is, year in year out he puts the effort in and has the mental strength to sustain it. Throw in his natural talent and you have a winning machine.

TheDeuce

21,274 posts

65 months

Sunday 15th September 2019
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jsf said:
swisstoni said:
What you seem to forget is that Hamilton had Rosberg to deal with in his own garage for four years.
Rosberg had to work so hard and dedicate himself totally for the year to match Hamilton, plus pull some dodgy moves and benefit from reliability. He threw the towel in after such an effort, because he knew he couldn't sustain that any longer.

Thats how good Hamilton is, year in year out he puts the effort in and has the mental strength to sustain it. Throw in his natural talent and you have a winning machine.
Exactly this. Lewis has the energy, composure and focus naturally, it's just the way he is. Rosberg figured that out and took a very technical approach to get himself to work the same way. He did manage it, but has said since it was not sustainable/repeatable.

The reality is, one of the people closest to Lewis has assessed that he's almost unbeatable over the course of a season and has proved as much. Not sure why anyone would continue to argue the point after that. The theory has already been tested and proven by Rosberg.

Teddy Lop

8,294 posts

66 months

Sunday 15th September 2019
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Poppiecock said:
Europa1 said:
Did Lewis Hamilton fk your wife or something?
I see the duvet is freshly ironed in this one...

I get sick of all the fawning like he’s the second coming.

He’s quick, no doubt, but that team have dominated like no other. Only the 88 McLaren challenges this dominance, but only for a single season.
this thread was all about the vettel, its the vettel thread, you're the one so obsessed with Lewis Hamilton that you have to bring him into the conversation, along with all your tiresome playground insults.

paulguitar

23,104 posts

112 months

Sunday 15th September 2019
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Teddy Lop said:
this thread was all about the vettel, its the vettel thread, you're the one so obsessed with Lewis Hamilton that you have to bring him into the conversation, along with all your tiresome playground insults.
Time to ignore the troll and move on.

Do we think Seb can turn things around this season or are we now looking at a terminal decline?

HTP99

22,443 posts

139 months

Sunday 15th September 2019
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paulguitar said:
Teddy Lop said:
this thread was all about the vettel, its the vettel thread, you're the one so obsessed with Lewis Hamilton that you have to bring him into the conversation, along with all your tiresome playground insults.
Time to ignore the troll and move on.

Do we think Seb can turn things around this season or are we now looking at a terminal decline?
He's just come out of a 4 week break; time to sit back, take stock, refresh etc....... look at his first race back from his break!


Edited by HTP99 on Sunday 15th September 12:57

ghost83

5,476 posts

189 months

Sunday 15th September 2019
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paulguitar said:
Time to ignore the troll and move on.

Do we think Seb can turn things around this season or are we now looking at a terminal decline?
I just do t think he likes the car! He doesn’t trust it and can’t get comfortable with it for whatever reason! Brundle even commented that! It would be stupid to think anything other

paulguitar

23,104 posts

112 months

Sunday 15th September 2019
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ghost83 said:
I just do t think he likes the car! He doesn’t trust it and can’t get comfortable with it for whatever reason! Brundle even commented that! It would be stupid to think anything other
His team mate seems to be delivering great results with that same car. A true great will be able to step and and sort this out and it will be interesting to see if he is able to do that.

TheDeuce

21,274 posts

65 months

Sunday 15th September 2019
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paulguitar said:
His team mate seems to be delivering great results with that same car. A true great will be able to step and and sort this out and it will be interesting to see if he is able to do that.
We kinda have seen if he can do that. He apparently can't.

Over half a season in too. It's not very useful if a driver needs more than half a season to adjust and make peace with his car - given that the following year, it will change character again, at least a little.

Edited by TheDeuce on Sunday 15th September 14:58


Edited by TheDeuce on Sunday 15th September 15:11

swisstoni

16,850 posts

278 months

Sunday 15th September 2019
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paulguitar said:
ghost83 said:
I just do t think he likes the car! He doesn’t trust it and can’t get comfortable with it for whatever reason! Brundle even commented that! It would be stupid to think anything other
His team mate seems to be delivering great results with that same car. A true great will be able to step and and sort this out and it will be interesting to see if he is able to do that.
I presume Ferrari have made all the adjustments possible already.

I’m always a bit skeptical when the best drivers in the world simply can’t adjust to the car they are sitting in.

But there must be something in it. I can only try to imagine the amount of feel involved in piloting these missiles to their maximum.

paulguitar

23,104 posts

112 months

Sunday 15th September 2019
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swisstoni said:
I presume Ferrari have made all the adjustments possible already.

I’m always a bit skeptical when the best drivers in the world simply can’t adjust to the car they are sitting in.

But there must be something in it. I can only try to imagine the amount of feel involved in piloting these missiles to their maximum.
Yes indeed and I think this is one of the areas a true great differs from a merely excellent driver. Button, for example, was close to unbeatable if he had the car 100% to his liking, but was sometimes embarrassingly off the pace when it wasn’t.

KevinCamaroSS

11,555 posts

279 months

Sunday 15th September 2019
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ghost83 said:
paulguitar said:
Time to ignore the troll and move on.

Do we think Seb can turn things around this season or are we now looking at a terminal decline?
I just do t think he likes the car! He doesn’t trust it and can’t get comfortable with it for whatever reason! Brundle even commented that! It would be stupid to think anything other
He is supposed to be a top-class F1 driver. If he cannot get the car sorted for himself he does not deserve the seat. I agree with a previous poster in that I think Vettel will retire at the end of this season.

I personally believe the Red Bull era was a result of a very dominant car combined with a not-so dominant driver and a 2nd who was held back, otherwise RB would have walked it every one of those 4 years.

In this Mercedes era we have a car that is the equal to, or better than (most of the time) other cars (2018 Ferrari was a better package, not sure about 2017) plus the best driver of the era combining to make it look very easy.

Muzzer79

9,806 posts

186 months

Sunday 15th September 2019
quotequote all
swisstoni said:
paulguitar said:
ghost83 said:
I just do t think he likes the car! He doesn’t trust it and can’t get comfortable with it for whatever reason! Brundle even commented that! It would be stupid to think anything other
His team mate seems to be delivering great results with that same car. A true great will be able to step and and sort this out and it will be interesting to see if he is able to do that.
I presume Ferrari have made all the adjustments possible already.

I’m always a bit skeptical when the best drivers in the world simply can’t adjust to the car they are sitting in.

But there must be something in it. I can only try to imagine the amount of feel involved in piloting these missiles to their maximum.
I feel for him a bit

It don’t believe it’s as easy now as just driving around problems, particularly with tyres.

With a higher level of intimacy between man and machine, look at the way motogp bikes have to be tailored to rider

Vettel loved the blown diffuser era, it really suited him. We saw the same with Mansell in an active car - you had to drive like he did naturally to get the best out of it.

More instinctive drivers like Senna and Hamilton are more adaptable but he shouldn’t be spinning or off the pace like he is.

TheDeuce

21,274 posts

65 months

Sunday 15th September 2019
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Muzzer79 said:
I feel for him a bit

It don’t believe it’s as easy now as just driving around problems, particularly with tyres.

With a higher level of intimacy between man and machine, look at the way motogp bikes have to be tailored to rider

Vettel loved the blown diffuser era, it really suited him. We saw the same with Mansell in an active car - you had to drive like he did naturally to get the best out of it.

More instinctive drivers like Senna and Hamilton are more adaptable but he shouldn’t be spinning or off the pace like he is.
He definitely shouldn't be. And in truth, last year's Ferrari was a very different car still he frequently spun or lost it.

I think it's true he mated particularly well with the blown diffuser red bull. CLC is proving that with far less experience the Ferrari can be tamed, even with its tyre management issues.

It's a bit of a sad ending perhaps but I just feel certain seb will acknowledge it and bow out before being pushed out. And it's not that sad, he has had a great career in F1 and has an excellent and expanded home life to make the most of. He's not one of the all time greats but when he found his groove he made it count - he has 100% done his job and can leave with a head held high.

I'm not going to make an outright prediction, but I would not be at all surprised if he left at the end of this year. I have massively enjoyed his contribution to F1 - but I would also wholeheartedly understand and be in favour of his exit if he wished it.

Funny how quickly the world turns these days..

kiseca

9,339 posts

218 months

Monday 16th September 2019
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Poppiecock said:
That’s because HK was quite possibly the worst driver McLaren have employed since Michael Andretti.
You can't say that one driver's lack of success was down to his driving skill in order to support an argument that the other driver's success - in the same car - was all down to the car. You are, whether you see it or not, very clearly admitting that Lewis's skill was a factor in his success. It still is.



Teddy Lop

8,294 posts

66 months

Wednesday 18th September 2019
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Regarding the points/ban situation - Theres a discussion about whether ferrari can run the car with a stand-in driver if vettel gets a one race ban, with of course everyone from alonso to wehrlein being suggested. But if this happened is there anything to stop ferrari sticking in a new engine on friday with it's grid penalty, then sticking an old lump back in for whichever sub driver to race with leaving vettel to come back benefiting from a nice new extra engine?

37chevy

3,280 posts

155 months

Wednesday 18th September 2019
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Teddy Lop said:
Regarding the points/ban situation - Theres a discussion about whether ferrari can run the car with a stand-in driver if vettel gets a one race ban, with of course everyone from alonso to wehrlein being suggested. But if this happened is there anything to stop ferrari sticking in a new engine on friday with it's grid penalty, then sticking an old lump back in for whichever sub driver to race with leaving vettel to come back benefiting from a nice new extra engine?
don't think theres anything stopping them....

...not that it will make much difference, it seems Vettel cant utilise a new engine anyway with the way hes driving at the moment

HustleRussell

24,602 posts

159 months

Wednesday 18th September 2019
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All academic anyway, Vettel's points start expiring next month- he'd have to be a very silly boy to get any kind of ban.

Andy S15

399 posts

126 months

Wednesday 18th September 2019
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I fully expect to see spins from Leclerc at some point in the remainder of the season. We've seen him come very close a number of times already. I really believe the Ferrari is a super sensitive car with a very narrow operating window and is very difficult this season in particular. I was watching some of the races from back around 2012 recently and Seb still has the car moving around under him perfectly within control, so he obviously has the ability, but something is different here. It looks far less controllable. However, the spin/contact at turn 3 Brazil 2012 was classic 'modern' Vettel through and through, he hasn't really changed in that respect.