Max Verstappen

[NRS]

Max was complaining a lot about tyres last race. As mentioned think it’s normally just Hamilton as he is at front. Interestingly Max was at the front too when he got a lot of radio coverage.

[GOATever]

He always looked at home in a Grand Prix car.

[sparta6]

Another strong performance from Max.

When the Red Bull is in contention he seems to have the measure of Hamilton.

Next season could be good fun

[37chevy]

sparta6 said:

Another strong performance from Max.

When the Red Bull is in contention he seems to have the measure of Hamilton.

Next season could be good fun

really? it was really even, on a circuit that suits the red bull, a better engine and the 2 overtakes were done firstly when Hamilton had no recharge on the battery and secondly on 14 lap fresher soft tyres.

it was a great race for max, but the measure of Hamilton? no.

[Wills2]

Great drive from Verstappen dicing with Lewis, really good to see, really pleased for Gasley it's just a such a shame for Albon, Lewis was big enough to admit the mistake but he must be gutted, a "RB/TR" 1-2-3 would have been great to see.

I'm a big fan of seeing the other drivers getting up there and getting some limelight.

[DeltonaS]

37chevy said:

sparta6 said:

Another strong performance from Max.

When the Red Bull is in contention he seems to have the measure of Hamilton.

Next season could be good fun

really? it was really even, on a circuit that suits the red bull, a better engine and the 2 overtakes were done firstly when Hamilton had no recharge on the battery and secondly on 14 lap fresher soft tyres.

it was a great race for max, but the measure of Hamilton? no.

Sums it up perfectly, Hamilton's performance at Bahrein (his 6 years at Mercedes in general by the way) was almighty and Verstappen's performance in Brazil was just thanks to having fresher tyres and a full battery.

The fanboy'ism is strong on PH.

[DeltonaS]

For the 4th year in a row Max Verstappen was awarded the ‘Action of the Year’ prize by fans, this year for his spectacular battle he had with Charles Leclerc at the British Grand Prix.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/niki-lauda-fia-...

Some more stats, Verstappen since Monaco 2018:

Max vs. his teammates (Ricciardo/Gasly/Albon),
36 races
Race wins: 5 - 0
Podium finishes: 19 - 0
WDC points: 492 - 232
Qually battle: 31 -5

The big wait is on Verstappen getting an equal car as the Mercedes drivers.

Edited by DeltonaS on Saturday 7th December 20:22

[Exige77]

DeltonaS said:

For the 4th year in a row Max Verstappen was awarded the ‘Action of the Year’ prize by fans, this year for his spectacular battle he had with Charles Leclerc at the British Grand Prix.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/niki-lauda-fia-...

Some more stats, Verstappen since Monaco 2018:

Max vs. his teammates (Ricciardo/Gastly/Albon),
36 races
Race wins: 5 - 0
Podium finishes: 19 - 0
WDC points: 492 - 232
Qually battle: 31 -5

The big wait is on Verstappen getting an equal car as the Mercedes drivers.

The big wait is for Max to get a front running team mate so we can do a fair evaluation.

I heard he’s asked Toto for a drive

[TheDeuce]

Exige77 said:

DeltonaS said:

For the 4th year in a row Max Verstappen was awarded the ‘Action of the Year’ prize by fans, this year for his spectacular battle he had with Charles Leclerc at the British Grand Prix.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/niki-lauda-fia-...

Some more stats, Verstappen since Monaco 2018:

Max vs. his teammates (Ricciardo/Gastly/Albon),
36 races
Race wins: 5 - 0
Podium finishes: 19 - 0
WDC points: 492 - 232
Qually battle: 31 -5

The big wait is on Verstappen getting an equal car as the Mercedes drivers.

The big wait is for Max to get a front running team mate so we can do a fair evaluation.

I heard he’s asked Toto for a drive

The red bull is really not far off the Mercedes car at this point. It's certainly competitive enough for max to win races so we can start to judge his performance and not make allowances for the car 'holding him back'.

As it happens, he's had a very strong season and has been impressive. If he could drive a little cooler he would have made less mistakes and subsequently would have not just beaten, but humiliated both Ferrari drivers. Could have been much closer to Mercedes...

But even without the mistakes, he still would have been some way off Lewis. Can that kind of points gap be put down to the very narrow performance gap between the two cars? I'm not convinced. I think Lewis is exceptional, and max is probably close, the closest of anyone on the grid. But not equal.

[Fire99]

I like him. I don't think he's always right but Verstappen is Verstappen and he hasn't veered too far towards being a corporate clone.

He's generally driven very sensibly this year and has done exceptionally well. Possibly not to universal agreement but I hope he doesn't polish out too much of his raw aggression. It's a selling point for the sport.

[DeltonaS]

Exige77 said:

DeltonaS said:

For the 4th year in a row Max Verstappen was awarded the ‘Action of the Year’ prize by fans, this year for his spectacular battle he had with Charles Leclerc at the British Grand Prix.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/niki-lauda-fia-...

Some more stats, Verstappen since Monaco 2018:

Max vs. his teammates (Ricciardo/Gastly/Albon),
36 races
Race wins: 5 - 0
Podium finishes: 19 - 0
WDC points: 492 - 232
Qually battle: 31 -5

The big wait is on Verstappen getting an equal car as the Mercedes drivers.

The big wait is for Max to get a front running team mate so we can do a fair evaluation.

I heard he’s asked Toto for a drive

Ricciardo was a good team mate, so was Sainz. You can't be a front runner if you don't have a front running car.

Edited by DeltonaS on Saturday 7th December 18:05

[DeltonaS]

TheDeuce said:

The red bull is really not far off the Mercedes car at this point. It's certainly competitive enough for max to win races so we can start to judge his performance and not make allowances for the car 'holding him back'.

As it happens, he's had a very strong season and has been impressive. If he could drive a little cooler he would have made less mistakes and subsequently would have not just beaten, but humiliated both Ferrari drivers. Could have been much closer to Mercedes...

But even without the mistakes, he still would have been some way off Lewis. Can that kind of points gap be put down to the very narrow performance gap between the two cars? I'm not convinced. I think Lewis is exceptional, and max is probably close, the closest of anyone on the grid. But not equal.

Narrow performance gap ?

The RB this season was definitely less competitive than the Mercedes, especially in the first half of the season where the Merc. racked up all the wins.
The RB does well on certain tracks like Brazil, Mexico, Hungary and Austria. The slower tracks with sweeping corners. The Mercedes has been too strong on most tracks and still is. Bahrein last week proved that once again. I wouldn't even be surprised if Mercedes were sandbagging for parts of the season. The WDC was a matter of time in the 2nd half of the season. And the fact that a lesser driver like Bottas comfortably manages to get 2nd in the drivers standings underlines Mercedes ongoing dominance even further.

The gap between Max and his RB teammates this season is telling as well. Gasly didn't even get close in half a season and Albon still is at least 3 to 5 tenths a lap slower. While Verstappen, after moving from TR to RB, won his first race in an RB at Barcelona, both Gasly and Albon even after half a season are still a long way off the pace of Verstappen.

So that's your narrow performance gap. Bottas comfortably wins 2nd place and Max outdrives his car and teammates but still is some margin away from 2nd place in the drivers standing. Telling.

On top of the performance gap itself, RB needs to swap the Honda engine more than Mercedes does, creating an extra layer of difficulty (and penalty's). The trust and comfort that Merc. has in it's engines (party mode f.i.) is not there (yet) at Honda. Although they made a big step this season.

And regading the mistakes, Verstappen this season didn't make that many mistakes. Even in a lesser car than the Ferrari he managed to stay in front of the both of them. Although to be honest with help from Ferrari themselves, who's strategy calls were often off. Plus Leclerc as a rookie made his fair share of mistakes as well.

Edited by DeltonaS on Saturday 7th December 20:52

[DeltonaS]

O yes, forgot about that one, J.Palmer says Max was better than Lewis this season.

"Jolyon Palmer column: Max Verstappen edges it over Lewis Hamilton"
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/50624423

[Mr_Thyroid]

DeltonaS said:

O yes, forgot about that one, J.Palmer says Max was better than Lewis this season.

"Jolyon Palmer column: Max Verstappen edges it over Lewis Hamilton"
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/50624423

I agree with Andrew Benson on this one - he said Hamilton and Verstappen were very close for best driver but Hamilton edges it because of Verstappen petulantly throwing away what, almost certainly, would have been a win in Mexico.

[anonymous-user]

Mr_Thyroid said:

DeltonaS said:

O yes, forgot about that one, J.Palmer says Max was better than Lewis this season.

"Jolyon Palmer column: Max Verstappen edges it over Lewis Hamilton"
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/50624423

I agree with Andrew Benson on this one - he said Hamilton and Verstappen were very close for best driver but Hamilton edges it because of Verstappen petulantly throwing away what, almost certainly, would have been a win in Mexico.

That’s just a convenient reason for him to give it to Hamilton

He’s not ‘Brown-nose Benson’ for no reason.

[Derek Smith]

Why the need to compare all the time, just to come up with a winner?

MV's an entertaining driver. F1 would be the worse for him leaving.

Manilton's an entertainng driver. F1 would be the worse for him leaving.

The sport is fun. The one that gets most points is the one who gets the WDC. Beyond that, it is unimportant.

[HustleRussell]

It’s pointless debating with DeltonaS, he is incapable of balance.

Hamilton wins championships when he has the tools to do so.

I hope we get to see whether Max converts so effectively. He’s proven that he can do everything else so far.

[TheDeuce]

HustleRussell said:

It’s pointless debating with DeltonaS, he is incapable of balance.

Hamilton wins championships when he has the tools to do so.

I hope we get to see whether Max converts so effectively. He’s proven that he can do everything else so far.

Let's face facts. With a better car max could challenge Lewis and potentially win a WDC

Does anyone really think he could win 6 though? Probably 7...

Lewis is a freak happening in the sport. Part freak because he has the talents and perfect balance of driver traits to win. Part freak because his path led him to the best car - albeit he earned that path.

Max is a raw talent and is unbelievably good. But he's not the complete and perfect package. The balance is slightly off. That could perhaps change one day, but until it does... It's pointless comparing him to Lewis. Max is a maybe. Lewis is confirmed.

[Derek Smith]

TheDeuce said:

Let's face facts. With a better car max could challenge Lewis and potentially win a WDC

Does anyone really think he could win 6 though? Probably 7...

Lewis is a freak happening in the sport. Part freak because he has the talents and perfect balance of driver traits to win. Part freak because his path led him to the best car - albeit he earned that path.

Max is a raw talent and is unbelievably good. But he's not the complete and perfect package. The balance is slightly off. That could perhaps change one day, but until it does... It's pointless comparing him to Lewis. Max is a maybe. Lewis is confirmed.

Hamilton was a bit wild in his younger days in F1. I miss the old LH a bit. I see no reason why Verstappen can't make it, although he's not developing fast enough at the moment. He's great to watch, thrilling in fact.

I agree with your assessment of Hamilton. He had the skills, he had the mentor, he had the opportunity. He went for it. It's been great following him over his years in the sport. I support teams rather than drivers (what a year for McLaren, eh? Up from nowhere to the best of the rest, or nowhere as it's called) so I've viewed him a bit dispassionately, but that doesn't mean I can't watch him in awe.

[HTP99]

Derek Smith said:

Hamilton was a bit wild in his younger days in F1. I miss the old LH a bit. I see no reason why Verstappen can't make it, although he's not developing fast enough at the moment. He's great to watch, thrilling in fact.

Thing is Verstappen will be entering his sixth season next year and he still has that wildness and immaturity about him, it should have been ironed out a couple of seasons ago, he is in real danger of being overtaken by the likes of Leclerc, Norris, Russell etc who are young and fast but also mature and missing out on possible titles.

You also get the sense that with him and his dad in the background he is kind of difficult to manage, if Red Bull are unable to regularly fight with Mercedes or Ferrari in the next couple of seasons I can't see any other top team wanting him if he wanted to move on as a) he doesn't seem to listen, b) him and his dad give off an air of being difficult and c) there are younger fast drivers on the grid who already show great promise and all the correct traits of a champion.