Wiliams documentary film
Discussion
That will be very interesting,cant wait to see it. I notice Amazon are taking orders for the DVD already.
As a very old F1 follower,One thing puzzles me,this film coincides with their 40th anniversary. I know Frank Williams Grand Prix Engineering is 40 years old,but what about his time before that?
I`ve been a Frank Williams fan for 48 years. In 1969 he started "Frank Williams Racing Cars" in Cippenham,then moved to Reading in 1972 (I`ve been in his workshop at Bennet Road).He really did struggle financially in those days,but always managed to get a car on the grid.Then in 1976 he got screwed by Walter Wolf. Set up in Didcot with Patrick Head and the rest is history.
Workshop at Cippenham.
As a very old F1 follower,One thing puzzles me,this film coincides with their 40th anniversary. I know Frank Williams Grand Prix Engineering is 40 years old,but what about his time before that?
I`ve been a Frank Williams fan for 48 years. In 1969 he started "Frank Williams Racing Cars" in Cippenham,then moved to Reading in 1972 (I`ve been in his workshop at Bennet Road).He really did struggle financially in those days,but always managed to get a car on the grid.Then in 1976 he got screwed by Walter Wolf. Set up in Didcot with Patrick Head and the rest is history.
Workshop at Cippenham.
Edited by Old Merc on Wednesday 5th July 16:06
The car Frank entered in 1969 for Piers Courage was a current model Brabham (BT26A).
The story goes that Brabham sold the car to a hill climb enthusiast, very specifically Brabham did not want the car used in F1. Frank got wind of the car being sold and convinced the hillclimber to sell him the car, apparently Brabham was not impressed!
Frank was regarded as a bit of a joke back then, permanently scrounging for money from anyone he could - I think he was one of the first to go looking for local sponsors when at the track. His cars were cobbled together and were a far cry from the standards Head would later put in place.
He joined up with Wolf because he was skint. He and Wolf had some very different ideas and he soon left and established WGPE.
Patrick Head had studied engineering and was building a boat at the time he met Frank. He was also skint, so when Frank offered him a job thought he may as well go and work for Frank for a few months to earn the money to finish his boat. I wonder if he ever did get it finished!
There is a great quote in the Williams 40th Anniversary program from Patrick "I don't think I ever got any enjoyment out of winning, but I despised losing".
This podcast is an hour with Frank talking about those days right up to the current time, its about 3 or 4 years old, but still worth a listen: http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/audio...
The story goes that Brabham sold the car to a hill climb enthusiast, very specifically Brabham did not want the car used in F1. Frank got wind of the car being sold and convinced the hillclimber to sell him the car, apparently Brabham was not impressed!
Frank was regarded as a bit of a joke back then, permanently scrounging for money from anyone he could - I think he was one of the first to go looking for local sponsors when at the track. His cars were cobbled together and were a far cry from the standards Head would later put in place.
He joined up with Wolf because he was skint. He and Wolf had some very different ideas and he soon left and established WGPE.
Patrick Head had studied engineering and was building a boat at the time he met Frank. He was also skint, so when Frank offered him a job thought he may as well go and work for Frank for a few months to earn the money to finish his boat. I wonder if he ever did get it finished!
There is a great quote in the Williams 40th Anniversary program from Patrick "I don't think I ever got any enjoyment out of winning, but I despised losing".
This podcast is an hour with Frank talking about those days right up to the current time, its about 3 or 4 years old, but still worth a listen: http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/audio...
Crafty_ said:
The car Frank entered in 1969 for Piers Courage was a current model Brabham (BT26A).
The story goes that Brabham sold the car to a hill climb enthusiast, very specifically Brabham did not want the car used in F1. Frank got wind of the car being sold and convinced the hillclimber to sell him the car, apparently Brabham was not impressed!
Frank was regarded as a bit of a joke back then, permanently scrounging for money from anyone he could - I think he was one of the first to go looking for local sponsors when at the track. His cars were cobbled together and were a far cry from the standards Head would later put in place.
He joined up with Wolf because he was skint. He and Wolf had some very different ideas and he soon left and established WGPE.
Patrick Head had studied engineering and was building a boat at the time he met Frank. He was also skint, so when Frank offered him a job thought he may as well go and work for Frank for a few months to earn the money to finish his boat. I wonder if he ever did get it finished!
There is a great quote in the Williams 40th Anniversary program from Patrick "I don't think I ever got any enjoyment out of winning, but I despised losing".
This podcast is an hour with Frank talking about those days right up to the current time, its about 3 or 4 years old, but still worth a listen: http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/audio...
What an interesting post crafty,well done.The story goes that Brabham sold the car to a hill climb enthusiast, very specifically Brabham did not want the car used in F1. Frank got wind of the car being sold and convinced the hillclimber to sell him the car, apparently Brabham was not impressed!
Frank was regarded as a bit of a joke back then, permanently scrounging for money from anyone he could - I think he was one of the first to go looking for local sponsors when at the track. His cars were cobbled together and were a far cry from the standards Head would later put in place.
He joined up with Wolf because he was skint. He and Wolf had some very different ideas and he soon left and established WGPE.
Patrick Head had studied engineering and was building a boat at the time he met Frank. He was also skint, so when Frank offered him a job thought he may as well go and work for Frank for a few months to earn the money to finish his boat. I wonder if he ever did get it finished!
There is a great quote in the Williams 40th Anniversary program from Patrick "I don't think I ever got any enjoyment out of winning, but I despised losing".
This podcast is an hour with Frank talking about those days right up to the current time, its about 3 or 4 years old, but still worth a listen: http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/audio...
I used to know a couple of guys that worked for Frank during the 70`s,the stories of what went on were hilarious.Mechanics not getting paid for months,DFV`s being sold to pay bills etc etc. My parents house was near the infamous telephone box where Frank made calls from every time his business line was cut off due to late payment.I have a Cosworth DFV piston on my desk at home that I found in Frank`s skip.I think it came from a Iso Marlboro blown engine. Two crazy things there. I was allowed to wander around his workshop and take home bits of engines. They were rebuilding there own engines on site !! no wonder they blew up.
Just imagine today an employee of Williams letting his mate into the workshop and letting him take home a Mercedes piston.
stemll said:
BBC Films -- does that mean that us licence payers will get to see it on the telly box at some point?Old Merc said:
What an interesting post crafty,well done.
I used to know a couple of guys that worked for Frank during the 70`s,the stories of what went on were hilarious.Mechanics not getting paid for months,DFV`s being sold to pay bills etc etc. My parents house was near the infamous telephone box where Frank made calls from every time his business line was cut off due to late payment.I have a Cosworth DFV piston on my desk at home that I found in Frank`s skip.I think it came from a Iso Marlboro blown engine. Two crazy things there. I was allowed to wander around his workshop and take home bits of engines. They were rebuilding there own engines on site !! no wonder they blew up.
Just imagine today an employee of Williams letting his mate into the workshop and letting him take home a Mercedes piston.
They were very different days thats for sure!I used to know a couple of guys that worked for Frank during the 70`s,the stories of what went on were hilarious.Mechanics not getting paid for months,DFV`s being sold to pay bills etc etc. My parents house was near the infamous telephone box where Frank made calls from every time his business line was cut off due to late payment.I have a Cosworth DFV piston on my desk at home that I found in Frank`s skip.I think it came from a Iso Marlboro blown engine. Two crazy things there. I was allowed to wander around his workshop and take home bits of engines. They were rebuilding there own engines on site !! no wonder they blew up.
Just imagine today an employee of Williams letting his mate into the workshop and letting him take home a Mercedes piston.
Great story about the piston. I wonder how many other bits got given away!
Frank gave up everything for racing - the wheeling and dealing was second nature to him and it seems he relishes making a deal as much as success on the track!
In his earlier days (before F1) he'd leave for a race in Europe without enough money or fuel to get home again - something would turn up, prize money, a sponsor, a deal on some parts, maybe a loan from a rival.
Maurice Hamilton wrote a book about Williams, about 10 years ago ? again, worth a read. There is one part where an ex driver (I forget who) said he was driving in to the HQ and came across Frank being chauffeured in. It soon became apparent that Frank had told his chauffeur they were to arrive at Grove in front of the driver and a little battle ensued. Frank was in his element and had a big smile on his face when they finally did arrive!
Its somewhat strange that what appears to be a friendly family team appears to have treated people poorly at times. If you read the driver biographies it seems to be a common theme.
Ross Brawn got his first job in F1 with the team, but not before somewhat of a delay - it turns out he was second choice for the job, but the other guy had started and then quickly left. Brawn was told all this in a very matter of fact manner on his first day!
Mark Webber was told they weren't impressed and had considered replacing him mid season - but it was a bit too much effort to find someone so they had decided to keep him on until the end of the year.
Senna found it very difficult to adjust at Williams after his McLaren family. At McLaren Jo Ramirez was his friend and confidant, in that 1994 season he told Jo it was very different had hard to adapt, he didn't feel like part of a family as he had at McLaren. On that fateful weekend in Imola he asked Jo to organise a helicopter transfer to the nearby airport where his jet was waiting for him - Jo did so and said he would do it at every race if needed. There was no-one at Williams to do that sort of thing for Ayrton.
Funny that McLaren who has the outside appearance of being rather serious and austere (at least under Ron) could be so welcming and Williams be so "cold".
Anyway, back to the old days - if you like to read, try these:
Jo Ramirez: Memoirs of a Racing Man - McLaren stalwart recollects his start in the motor racing world, his friendship with the Rodriguez family and his time at teams like Arrows as well as his McLaren days.
Di Spires: I only made the tea - Di and husband Stuart were F1 fans in their youth and decided they had to get involved in some way, they managed to get in to the catering game just as hospitality was really taking off in the sport. The pair became known as "mum and dad" to many mechanics and drivers. Its interesting to read about life in the paddock back then. A little bit of rallying and LeMans mixed in too.
If you haven't seen the McLaren film yet its worth doing so.
Back to Williams, I came across this recently, its amazing to see how far we've come. Mechanics shirtless, in flipflops with dirty hands, pits that were just breeze block sheds, timing done with a clipboard and stopwatch, its almost a different sport! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS4pejg43Ug
Crafty you have got me going now. We should start a thread about F1 old times.Your right, in those days everything in the paddock was laid back and a bit scruffy.Nothing like today's clinical corporate show piece.
My next story is an example of how laid back and easy going F1 teams were in those days. This was 1975 and my first ever overseas Grand Prix trip.
My brother in-law(who used to work with Firestone F1)and I were waiting at Harwich for the ferry to Holland for the Grand Prix at Zandvoort.We had no GP tickets and had no idea how we were going to travel in Holland or where we were going to stay.Then along came the Embassy Hill F1 team truck.Low and behold the driver was a mate of my brother in-law from their days together at Firestone F1. To our astonishment he offered us a lift in the truck all the way to Zandvoort !! So next day there I was in the F1 paddock surrounded by the teams and the stars,I had to pinch my self.Very soon I got talking to Ray Brimble the Embassy Hill team manager.He asked me if I would go to Schiphol airport to pick up his girl friend,how could I refuse.Off I went in his hire car after being provided with F1 paddock passes etc to get us all around.He even arranged a room for us in the team hotel.So that was our w/end sorted,watch the GP for free,night out with the team,rubbing shoulders with the stars.We even helped pack up the truck after the GP was over and got a lift back to the UK.That was a Grand Prix to remember,and James Hunt got his first and Hesketh`s only win.
Preparing the cars in the open air.
Remember it pissed with rain just before the start.
That`s me getting Graham Hill`s and Denny`s autographs.I still have that program full of autographs,wonder what is worth?
My next story is an example of how laid back and easy going F1 teams were in those days. This was 1975 and my first ever overseas Grand Prix trip.
My brother in-law(who used to work with Firestone F1)and I were waiting at Harwich for the ferry to Holland for the Grand Prix at Zandvoort.We had no GP tickets and had no idea how we were going to travel in Holland or where we were going to stay.Then along came the Embassy Hill F1 team truck.Low and behold the driver was a mate of my brother in-law from their days together at Firestone F1. To our astonishment he offered us a lift in the truck all the way to Zandvoort !! So next day there I was in the F1 paddock surrounded by the teams and the stars,I had to pinch my self.Very soon I got talking to Ray Brimble the Embassy Hill team manager.He asked me if I would go to Schiphol airport to pick up his girl friend,how could I refuse.Off I went in his hire car after being provided with F1 paddock passes etc to get us all around.He even arranged a room for us in the team hotel.So that was our w/end sorted,watch the GP for free,night out with the team,rubbing shoulders with the stars.We even helped pack up the truck after the GP was over and got a lift back to the UK.That was a Grand Prix to remember,and James Hunt got his first and Hesketh`s only win.
Preparing the cars in the open air.
Remember it pissed with rain just before the start.
That`s me getting Graham Hill`s and Denny`s autographs.I still have that program full of autographs,wonder what is worth?
By the way that Grand Prix was typical of Frank`s ducking and diving.
Arturo Merzario was down as William`s driver but for some reason Ian Scheckter drove the car to 12th in the race. Money dispute??
Jacques Laffite drove the second Williams but the engine blew up. So that`s where my piston came from.
Arturo Merzario was down as William`s driver but for some reason Ian Scheckter drove the car to 12th in the race. Money dispute??
Jacques Laffite drove the second Williams but the engine blew up. So that`s where my piston came from.
To tie in with Hunt and Hesketh to the Williams story.
When Hesketh went bust at the end of 75, it was Frank Williams and his new team backer Walter Wolf who bought the team assets.
For 1976 Williams racing used the 2 original Hesketh 308C and built a third in house, they called the car the Wolf Williams FW05. They also took Harvey from Hesketh as their chief designer.
The last FW racing car was the FW05 built to the Hesketh 308C design, it's one the F1 cars sat in my workshop.
For the start of 77 when Frank had left Wolf and set up WGPE with Patrick, they bought a March 761 and modified the chassis in a couple of places to stiffen it up a bit. The first proper WGPE car with the FW06, although it was pretty conventional old school mid 70's design. The first proper step forward was the FW07.
When Hesketh went bust at the end of 75, it was Frank Williams and his new team backer Walter Wolf who bought the team assets.
For 1976 Williams racing used the 2 original Hesketh 308C and built a third in house, they called the car the Wolf Williams FW05. They also took Harvey from Hesketh as their chief designer.
The last FW racing car was the FW05 built to the Hesketh 308C design, it's one the F1 cars sat in my workshop.
For the start of 77 when Frank had left Wolf and set up WGPE with Patrick, they bought a March 761 and modified the chassis in a couple of places to stiffen it up a bit. The first proper WGPE car with the FW06, although it was pretty conventional old school mid 70's design. The first proper step forward was the FW07.
^ Further to the above, pics of the march 761, FW06 and 07 here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hotrods/albums/72157...
Williams have a long term employee called Dickie Stanford, who until a few years ago was team manager. He gave that up (presumably becuase of travel etc) and now runs the workshop for the heritage collection. He posts pics to twitter sometimes, well worth a follow https://twitter.com/dickiestanford Running an FW13B for a private owner in Canada this weekend.
Williams have a long term employee called Dickie Stanford, who until a few years ago was team manager. He gave that up (presumably becuase of travel etc) and now runs the workshop for the heritage collection. He posts pics to twitter sometimes, well worth a follow https://twitter.com/dickiestanford Running an FW13B for a private owner in Canada this weekend.
The FW06 and 7 are privately owned too, I didn't quite catch the owner names but I think they are raced too.
I think Festival of Speed has helped with visibility of the old cars. TV has helped too - Sky have been showing a bit with Damon and his '96 car, they've done features on Senna's cars too. Brundle was driving the FW08B which will be a feature on banned cars.
I wonder if Liberty Media could look to do something with them at GPs.
I think Festival of Speed has helped with visibility of the old cars. TV has helped too - Sky have been showing a bit with Damon and his '96 car, they've done features on Senna's cars too. Brundle was driving the FW08B which will be a feature on banned cars.
I wonder if Liberty Media could look to do something with them at GPs.
Sorry, not much to offer on F1 or Williams, but a few years back aided a Mr David Grace change the gearbox in his Healey at Spa Classic.
There's something very gentlemanly about the old cars. Not just nostalgia, a much more relaxed atmosphere. The gearbox exchange came about because we were somewhere we shouldn't be, and were asked if we could "pass that spanner". An hour or two later we watched 'our Healey' take the start.
Love these old stories, please keep them coming.
There's something very gentlemanly about the old cars. Not just nostalgia, a much more relaxed atmosphere. The gearbox exchange came about because we were somewhere we shouldn't be, and were asked if we could "pass that spanner". An hour or two later we watched 'our Healey' take the start.
Love these old stories, please keep them coming.
Old Merc said:
Crafty_ said:
The car Frank entered in 1969 for Piers Courage was a current model Brabham (BT26A).
The story goes that Brabham sold the car to a hill climb enthusiast, very specifically Brabham did not want the car used in F1. Frank got wind of the car being sold and convinced the hillclimber to sell him the car, apparently Brabham was not impressed!
Frank was regarded as a bit of a joke back then, permanently scrounging for money from anyone he could - I think he was one of the first to go looking for local sponsors when at the track. His cars were cobbled together and were a far cry from the standards Head would later put in place.
He joined up with Wolf because he was skint. He and Wolf had some very different ideas and he soon left and established WGPE.
Patrick Head had studied engineering and was building a boat at the time he met Frank. He was also skint, so when Frank offered him a job thought he may as well go and work for Frank for a few months to earn the money to finish his boat. I wonder if he ever did get it finished!
There is a great quote in the Williams 40th Anniversary program from Patrick "I don't think I ever got any enjoyment out of winning, but I despised losing".
This podcast is an hour with Frank talking about those days right up to the current time, its about 3 or 4 years old, but still worth a listen: http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/audio...
What an interesting post crafty,well done.The story goes that Brabham sold the car to a hill climb enthusiast, very specifically Brabham did not want the car used in F1. Frank got wind of the car being sold and convinced the hillclimber to sell him the car, apparently Brabham was not impressed!
Frank was regarded as a bit of a joke back then, permanently scrounging for money from anyone he could - I think he was one of the first to go looking for local sponsors when at the track. His cars were cobbled together and were a far cry from the standards Head would later put in place.
He joined up with Wolf because he was skint. He and Wolf had some very different ideas and he soon left and established WGPE.
Patrick Head had studied engineering and was building a boat at the time he met Frank. He was also skint, so when Frank offered him a job thought he may as well go and work for Frank for a few months to earn the money to finish his boat. I wonder if he ever did get it finished!
There is a great quote in the Williams 40th Anniversary program from Patrick "I don't think I ever got any enjoyment out of winning, but I despised losing".
This podcast is an hour with Frank talking about those days right up to the current time, its about 3 or 4 years old, but still worth a listen: http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/audio...
I used to know a couple of guys that worked for Frank during the 70`s,the stories of what went on were hilarious.Mechanics not getting paid for months,DFV`s being sold to pay bills etc etc. My parents house was near the infamous telephone box where Frank made calls from every time his business line was cut off due to late payment.I have a Cosworth DFV piston on my desk at home that I found in Frank`s skip.I think it came from a Iso Marlboro blown engine. Two crazy things there. I was allowed to wander around his workshop and take home bits of engines. They were rebuilding there own engines on site !! no wonder they blew up.
Just imagine today an employee of Williams letting his mate into the workshop and letting him take home a Mercedes piston.
markcoznottz said:
Same old story then really, getting on by screwing other people over, especially suppliers, I bet they don't see it as 'hilarious' at all.
The motorsport world is full of that aspect, sadly. Especially so the F1 lower teams who often take suppliers down when they cant pay their bills. If you want to survive you don't offer credit.Tyre Smoke said:
Sorry, not much to offer on F1 or Williams, but a few years back aided a Mr David Grace change the gearbox in his Healey at Spa Classic.
There's something very gentlemanly about the old cars. Not just nostalgia, a much more relaxed atmosphere. The gearbox exchange came about because we were somewhere we shouldn't be, and were asked if we could "pass that spanner". An hour or two later we watched 'our Healey' take the start.
Love these old stories, please keep them coming.
I've worked with David when he drove a McLaren I built, super guy. He has a very cool original American Airstream caravan he uses at the events.There's something very gentlemanly about the old cars. Not just nostalgia, a much more relaxed atmosphere. The gearbox exchange came about because we were somewhere we shouldn't be, and were asked if we could "pass that spanner". An hour or two later we watched 'our Healey' take the start.
Love these old stories, please keep them coming.
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