Wiliams documentary film
Discussion
m444ttb said:
Jerry Can said:
I watched it last night on netflix. Interesting character profile/documentary. The feud between brother an sister is foolish though. The brief excerpts of Johnathon tells me he is 'no leader' and could not manage that business. Equally he isn't ruthless enough as he got screwed over by his sister ( his words ). If you are reading this JW, give it up and patch it up with your sister, you didn't get the gig because you aren't tough enough/ politically astute nor ruthless enough, and that's why your sister beat you to the post. Also you seem to be happy doing the job of Parts man - says it all.
Totally agree. Life’s way too short. Unfortunately I was left with the impressionist n that they’ll drift further apart.And Jonathan... the reason for him not getting the Team Principle role didn't need to be told. His whole demeanour told you all you needed to know. So he lost out to Clair... if he had anything to offer, grit and determination he'd have picked up some other worthwhile role within the team. Shame he let bitterness get in the way...
Claire, as someone else said.... she does have a lil something naughty about her
Just watched this tonight on Netflix, brilliant must watch documentary. Very sad in many ways. Has done nothing to raise my opinions on Frank though. I think him, selfish, single minded and a person who takes many people for granted. Never forgave him over his treatment of Hill, something they seeemed to miss out! So sad how claire and her brother have fallen out. Clare is by far the best thing for Williams going forward though. The team is in safe hands.
Edited by paulw123 on Tuesday 9th January 23:38
Saw this on a flight home this week. The most interesting thing for me was perhaps that they had more details about his accident - one often hears that Frank Williams is in a wheelchair due to 'a crash', but not that he decided to attack an unfamiliar mountain road at 110% in a rented Sierra and flew off the road (!)
samoht said:
Saw this on a flight home this week. The most interesting thing for me was perhaps that they had more details about his accident - one often hears that Frank Williams is in a wheelchair due to 'a crash', but not that he decided to attack an unfamiliar mountain road at 110% in a rented Sierra and flew off the road (!)
To be fair, this was not a revelation but very well known at the time - but obviously is useful narrative for those younger than me , who first saw a Williams F1 car in 1972... FW is an easy man to admire , but much harder to like , frankly. As his late wife's book (which, shamefully , he hasn't even read) also highlighted , Frank was very adept at running fast and loose with creditors, ripping off buyers and so on - I know this sort of stuff isn't uncommon in the sport but I don't find it endearing . Claire came over very well indeed and it was pretty self explanatory why she got the F1 gig over her brother - who certainly didn't appear to have been first in the queue for either brains or charm on the evidence of the film .
It is sad to think that the team's glory days are now almost certainly behind them - I was lucky enough to be trackside to see their first win in 79, THAT move on Piquet by Mansell in 87 and , perhaps most memorably of all Rosberg's 161mph lap at Silverstone in 85 - with a slow puncture , on a still drying track and with -God knows- 1200bhp in the Honda ?
coppice said:
To be fair, this was not a revelation but very well known at the time - but obviously is useful narrative for those younger than me , who first saw a Williams F1 car in 1972... FW is an easy man to admire , but much harder to like , frankly. As his late wife's book (which, shamefully , he hasn't even read) also highlighted , Frank was very adept at running fast and loose with creditors, ripping off buyers and so on - I know this sort of stuff isn't uncommon in the sport but I don't find it endearing.
Sounds like a great man. Has he been knighted yet?8V085 said:
coppice said:
To be fair, this was not a revelation but very well known at the time - but obviously is useful narrative for those younger than me , who first saw a Williams F1 car in 1972... FW is an easy man to admire , but much harder to like , frankly. As his late wife's book (which, shamefully , he hasn't even read) also highlighted , Frank was very adept at running fast and loose with creditors, ripping off buyers and so on - I know this sort of stuff isn't uncommon in the sport but I don't find it endearing.
Sounds like a great man. Has he been knighted yet?HighwayStar said:
8V085 said:
coppice said:
To be fair, this was not a revelation but very well known at the time - but obviously is useful narrative for those younger than me , who first saw a Williams F1 car in 1972... FW is an easy man to admire , but much harder to like , frankly. As his late wife's book (which, shamefully , he hasn't even read) also highlighted , Frank was very adept at running fast and loose with creditors, ripping off buyers and so on - I know this sort of stuff isn't uncommon in the sport but I don't find it endearing.
Sounds like a great man. Has he been knighted yet?coppice said:
To be fair, this was not a revelation but very well known at the time - but obviously is useful narrative for those younger than me , who first saw a Williams F1 car in 1972... FW is an easy man to admire , but much harder to like , frankly. As his late wife's book (which, shamefully , he hasn't even read) also highlighted , Frank was very adept at running fast and loose with creditors, ripping off buyers and so on - I know this sort of stuff isn't uncommon in the sport but I don't find it endearing .
Claire came over very well indeed and it was pretty self explanatory why she got the F1 gig over her brother - who certainly didn't appear to have been first in the queue for either brains or charm on the evidence of the film .
It is sad to think that the team's glory days are now almost certainly behind them - I was lucky enough to be trackside to see their first win in 79, THAT move on Piquet by Mansell in 87 and , perhaps most memorably of all Rosberg's 161mph lap at Silverstone in 85 - with a slow puncture , on a still drying track and with -God knows- 1200bhp in the Honda ?
Claire did come across very well, and you could tell she has some venom reserved for her Dad when it came to his indiscretions. Claire came over very well indeed and it was pretty self explanatory why she got the F1 gig over her brother - who certainly didn't appear to have been first in the queue for either brains or charm on the evidence of the film .
It is sad to think that the team's glory days are now almost certainly behind them - I was lucky enough to be trackside to see their first win in 79, THAT move on Piquet by Mansell in 87 and , perhaps most memorably of all Rosberg's 161mph lap at Silverstone in 85 - with a slow puncture , on a still drying track and with -God knows- 1200bhp in the Honda ?
Him not reading the book is odd, to the point of being almost insulting to the memory of his late wife. But maybe he feels that if he read it he'd almost certaintly feel guilt and it's something he doesn't want to deal with?
Just watched this on Sky store. Intriguing insight and a lot of it as I suspected. He comes across as the incredibly driven character I thought he was but I never realised just how little concern or time/love he seems to have for family or those around him...Quite amazing and I have greater level of respect and disappointment as a result of watching it, ( ?? ).
I also found it very odd that there's was no mention of Hill and virtually nothing of Senna considering how prolific that period was for the team, ( appreciate they wanted it to be about Frank and the team rather than straying into well covered driver profiles but even so.. ).
Well worth a watch but hard to know how to feel about the film, the man or the team..
( Claire is steely too and seems lovely and really capable but not sure adopting every character trait of her father is the best way forward... )
I also found it very odd that there's was no mention of Hill and virtually nothing of Senna considering how prolific that period was for the team, ( appreciate they wanted it to be about Frank and the team rather than straying into well covered driver profiles but even so.. ).
Well worth a watch but hard to know how to feel about the film, the man or the team..
( Claire is steely too and seems lovely and really capable but not sure adopting every character trait of her father is the best way forward... )
Very good documentary. Probably one of the best F1 based films.
Whilst there is a certainly 'stiffness to the upper lip' with Frank, I think his disability belies his ability to show compassion. Towards the end of the film when Claire is reading from her Mother's book and she starts choking up, I cannot believe that in any other circumstance he'd have flung his arms around her.
Whilst there is a certainly 'stiffness to the upper lip' with Frank, I think his disability belies his ability to show compassion. Towards the end of the film when Claire is reading from her Mother's book and she starts choking up, I cannot believe that in any other circumstance he'd have flung his arms around her.
I've always seen Frank (and Patrick Head) as the old school type who think that the solution to every problem is to work harder and longer as it never hurt them by doing so.
Having spanned that mindset and the current "family is everything" mindset I can see how he would appear hard nosed with family/friends but it's just a different way that generation has.
Having spanned that mindset and the current "family is everything" mindset I can see how he would appear hard nosed with family/friends but it's just a different way that generation has.
There is an existing thread somewhere. But anyway - excellent , and (pun intended )shockingly frank . FW ' achievements are immense but I wasn't amused by the ripping people off and avoiding creditors stories in the early days , even if hardly unusual in motor racing. I read his late wife's book (which is more than FW did ) and it was difficult to like either Mr or Mrs FW on a personal level , on the evidence of her account . But judge the art , not the artist ...
Claire comes over very well and it's easy to she was the chosen one for the F1 team , and not her brother who I found rather odd . Family feud alive and well it seems
One very bad note by the director was to include the shocking image of Bandini's charred corpse - he had nothing to do with FW , his death predated FW in F1 and he was in a Ferrari .Why wasn't poor old Piers Courage fiery death enough to make the point?
Claire comes over very well and it's easy to she was the chosen one for the F1 team , and not her brother who I found rather odd . Family feud alive and well it seems
One very bad note by the director was to include the shocking image of Bandini's charred corpse - he had nothing to do with FW , his death predated FW in F1 and he was in a Ferrari .Why wasn't poor old Piers Courage fiery death enough to make the point?
Vaud said:
8V085 said:
Sounds like a great man. Has he been knighted yet?
It's odd that Frank is knighted, but Ron Dennis isn't (just a CBE). Arguably Ron has done more for the industry. Clearly he will accept an honour.- the injury, and his subsequent stoic handling of it and the rest of his life
- charity associations with the above and being an example to many
- he started in ‘66 so by the time of his knighthood he was headline active for quite awhile; he’s older than Dennis isn’t he?
- it’s his name above the door of the outfit
We all know the major impact Dennis has had on the sport but I think maybe it’s the last point that is sometimes weighed up. Aside from the $100m fine and all that, being uncharitable you could say he’s not McLaren in the same way as Frank is Williams F1. Being candid, you could say that he merely took over the running of an already established company. Frank did it from scratch. Not necessarily my thoughts, merely how it could be bartered.
Frank is a public schoolboy which probably helps compared to some comparative nouveau riche-type like Dennis, in our class focussed society. Add in all those people asking why Dennis hasn’t been knighted, as in it’s some sort of expectation (like Beckham), probably does the Queens head in too, I guess
This will be my Saturday night treat with a couple of 
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