McLaren to use Renault Engines
Discussion
HustleRussell said:
suffolk009 said:
Red Bull have Honda power in 2019.
Source?There's nothing saying they won't end up with any of the other engines, and actually some logic to it being a Merc deal instead.
CraigyMc said:
He's reasoning by deduction, caused by Renault saying that they won't supply Red Bull Racing in 2019, and the fact that Honda are available and already supplying Toro Rosso in 2018.
There's nothing saying they won't end up with any of the other engines, and actually some logic to it being a Merc deal instead.
Mercedes will never supply RBR as long as there is a factory Mercedes team. They won't want to be beaten by a customer team. I also get the impression that the Austrians in charge of Mercedes aren't big fans of the Austrians in charge of RBR.There's nothing saying they won't end up with any of the other engines, and actually some logic to it being a Merc deal instead.
HighwayStar said:
Leroy902 said:
So now they're turning to Renault. They'll never be a team that can compare with the red bulls, so the best they can hope for is 5th & 6th in every race... At best.
Why? What do you know?I think McLaren are going to have a rude awakening next year. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see McLaren, or indeed anybody, get one over Red Bull. But I just can’t see McLaren doing it next year.
thegreenhell said:
CraigyMc said:
He's reasoning by deduction, caused by Renault saying that they won't supply Red Bull Racing in 2019, and the fact that Honda are available and already supplying Toro Rosso in 2018.
There's nothing saying they won't end up with any of the other engines, and actually some logic to it being a Merc deal instead.
Mercedes will never supply RBR as long as there is a factory Mercedes team. They won't want to be beaten by a customer team. I also get the impression that the Austrians in charge of Mercedes aren't big fans of the Austrians in charge of RBR.There's nothing saying they won't end up with any of the other engines, and actually some logic to it being a Merc deal instead.
Red Bull may well buy Aston Martin (a sort of reverse takeover). Aston have MB engines.
CraigyMc said:
thegreenhell said:
CraigyMc said:
He's reasoning by deduction, caused by Renault saying that they won't supply Red Bull Racing in 2019, and the fact that Honda are available and already supplying Toro Rosso in 2018.
There's nothing saying they won't end up with any of the other engines, and actually some logic to it being a Merc deal instead.
Mercedes will never supply RBR as long as there is a factory Mercedes team. They won't want to be beaten by a customer team. I also get the impression that the Austrians in charge of Mercedes aren't big fans of the Austrians in charge of RBR.There's nothing saying they won't end up with any of the other engines, and actually some logic to it being a Merc deal instead.
Red Bull may well buy Aston Martin (a sort of reverse takeover). Aston have MB engines.
Which leaves Honda (who are in the sister team), or Ferrari, or Mercedes. I suppose you're right RB could buy AM. Anything is possible.
Megaflow said:
HighwayStar said:
Leroy902 said:
So now they're turning to Renault. They'll never be a team that can compare with the red bulls, so the best they can hope for is 5th & 6th in every race... At best.
Why? What do you know?I think McLaren are going to have a rude awakening next year. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see McLaren, or indeed anybody, get one over Red Bull. But I just can’t see McLaren doing it next year.
Leroy902 said:
History tells us the red bulls are a far better all round team compared to Mclaren. There's no way Mclaren can compete with the red bulls with the same engine. No way.
If McLaren were developing today the way they did ten years ago, I'd agree with you, but ever since Peter Prodromou got his way, they've been evolving cars rather than making new ones each year - as a consequence, they are doing a shedload better than they used to.It'll be interesting to see how McLaren fare against RBR. At the moment I think they are the two best chassis on the grid.
2fast748 said:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mclaren-wont-ha...
Obviously the Irn Bru deal was wishful thinking.....
Seems convenient to call the death knell of title sponsorship at the precise (or thereabouts) moment you can’t attract a title sponsor....Obviously the Irn Bru deal was wishful thinking.....
/cynic mode/ off
CraigyMc said:
thegreenhell said:
CraigyMc said:
He's reasoning by deduction, caused by Renault saying that they won't supply Red Bull Racing in 2019, and the fact that Honda are available and already supplying Toro Rosso in 2018.
There's nothing saying they won't end up with any of the other engines, and actually some logic to it being a Merc deal instead.
Mercedes will never supply RBR as long as there is a factory Mercedes team. They won't want to be beaten by a customer team. I also get the impression that the Austrians in charge of Mercedes aren't big fans of the Austrians in charge of RBR.There's nothing saying they won't end up with any of the other engines, and actually some logic to it being a Merc deal instead.
Red Bull may well buy Aston Martin (a sort of reverse takeover). Aston have MB engines.
I'd say that because AM buy engines off AMG that would be insufficient commercial incentive to potentially damage the F1 teams position
wibble cb said:
2fast748 said:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mclaren-wont-ha...
Obviously the Irn Bru deal was wishful thinking.....
Seems convenient to call the death knell of title sponsorship at the precise (or thereabouts) moment you can’t attract a title sponsor....Obviously the Irn Bru deal was wishful thinking.....
/cynic mode/ off
I'm no fan of McLaren (or Dennis specifically) but I don't want to see them go to the wall either but all the "best handling car" and "just watch next years car" comments are pure wishful thinking, McLaren haven't been in a championship winning position for a long time now and you only need to look at Williams to see how the rot sets in when you don't get straight back to winning ways.
And as for the Renault PU, is it really any better than the Honda? They lost an awful lot of components last season. Why are things suddenly going to change?
CraigyMc said:
Leroy902 said:
History tells us the red bulls are a far better all round team compared to Mclaren. There's no way Mclaren can compete with the red bulls with the same engine. No way.
If McLaren were developing today the way they did ten years ago, I'd agree with you, but ever since Peter Prodromou got his way, they've been evolving cars rather than making new ones each year - as a consequence, they are doing a shedload better than they used to.It'll be interesting to see how McLaren fare against RBR. At the moment I think they are the two best chassis on the grid.
2fast748 said:
...all the "best handling car" and "just watch next years car" comments are pure wishful thinking...
A lot of it is based on GPS data on cornering speed, video evidence of where the car is fast and where it's slow and so on.It's not like we only listen to F1 on the radio and "guess" that next years' McLaren will be fast.
Megaflow said:
Good point. I had forgotten about Prodromou being there.
Remember Peter Prodromou was Adrian Newey's righthand man when they first worked together at McLaren, that's why he transferred to Red Bull.After reading Newey's book I'm staggered that he returned, perhaps he mandated to the Board to get rid of the 'mullahs' introduced by Ron Dennis / Martin Whitmarsh.
Newey's philosophy has always been to evolve, the biggest question is whether McLaren can sort their aero and CFD development tools to match Red Bull.
It may make an interesting 'Master versus Apprentice' story for the season!
HustleRussell said:
Sounds like PR speak for ‘actually our aero and chassis aren’t as good as we can claim with a s
t engine in the car so it’s time to back peddle and not look like dicks’ This is why I’ve stopped supporting Mclaren, they’ve become a complete shambles of an operation and crap like this just makes them look even worse
DanielSan said:
Sounds like PR speak for ‘actually our aero and chassis aren’t as good as we can claim with a st engine in the car so it’s time to back peddle and not look like dicks’
This is why I’ve stopped supporting Mclaren, they’ve become a complete shambles of an operation and crap like this just makes them look even worse
I've supported McLaren since 1965. You don't stop supporting a team at times like these. Though I think Bruce would be spinning in his grave if he could see what has become of his team.t engine in the car so it’s time to back peddle and not look like dicks’ This is why I’ve stopped supporting Mclaren, they’ve become a complete shambles of an operation and crap like this just makes them look even worse
Just before testing last year we were being told that McLaren were not going to be satisfied with anything outside the top 3.
If Ron was a dreamer, Zac and Eric are Romanticists. As a customer of Renault they will struggle to beat both RB and Renault. I think they will actually be pushed hard by Force India.
But I really hope that I am wrong.
If Ron was a dreamer, Zac and Eric are Romanticists. As a customer of Renault they will struggle to beat both RB and Renault. I think they will actually be pushed hard by Force India.
But I really hope that I am wrong.
rdjohn said:
Just before testing last year we were being told that McLaren were not going to be satisfied with anything outside the top 3.
If Ron was a dreamer, Zac and Eric are Romanticists. As a customer of Renault they will struggle to beat both RB and Renault. I think they will actually be pushed hard by Force India.
But I really hope that I am wrong.
I agree, but if Alonso still cares about his F1 legacy and hasn't given up, it would be nice to see him drag a dog into some great finishes or at least have some proper scraps. He's not really been able to do much of anything these past few years.If Ron was a dreamer, Zac and Eric are Romanticists. As a customer of Renault they will struggle to beat both RB and Renault. I think they will actually be pushed hard by Force India.
But I really hope that I am wrong.
rdjohn said:
Just before testing last year we were being told that McLaren were not going to be satisfied with anything outside the top 3.
If Ron was a dreamer, Zac and Eric are Romanticists. As a customer of Renault they will struggle to beat both RB and Renault. I think they will actually be pushed hard by Force India.
But I really hope that I am wrong.
I don’t agree... Renault have stated the engines across the 3 teams will be the same spec, evolution etc.If Ron was a dreamer, Zac and Eric are Romanticists. As a customer of Renault they will struggle to beat both RB and Renault. I think they will actually be pushed hard by Force India.
But I really hope that I am wrong.
If Mclaren aren’t up there, it will be because of the car.
Re managing expectations, it really doesn’t matter what Mclaren say. Being bullish, they’d have been slaughtered here as well.
I’m waiting to see how testing goes.
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