Red Bull - Aston Martin
Discussion
No-one in their right minds will develop an engine for the 2018-2020 regs now. Andy Palmer indicated it would be reliant on what the final 2021 regulations end up being. As a marque, AM are a bit old school in terms of engine technology - large displacement V12's are their specialism, and are unlikely to be an option on the table with the regulation change (oh how I wish they were). With the hybrid era it's been AMG that won that battle, and it's AMG derived engines powering the next phase of AM road cars.
The comparisons between the AMG Project One and the AM Valkyrie (that started the technical partnership with Red Bull) aren't apples and apples - the Aston might have all the materials science, aero and chassis engineering of an F1 car, but it's powered by the engine that nature intended - no stinkin' hairdryers present
It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out. I'm not sure a re-badged Honda / Renault / AMG engine will qualify as being an AM lump in most people's eyes (like an expensive time piece currently in the back of the Red Bull). It's hard enough to get people to swallow the pill that goes with the new Vantage and DB11 V8 having AMG derived lumps in them...
The comparisons between the AMG Project One and the AM Valkyrie (that started the technical partnership with Red Bull) aren't apples and apples - the Aston might have all the materials science, aero and chassis engineering of an F1 car, but it's powered by the engine that nature intended - no stinkin' hairdryers present
It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out. I'm not sure a re-badged Honda / Renault / AMG engine will qualify as being an AM lump in most people's eyes (like an expensive time piece currently in the back of the Red Bull). It's hard enough to get people to swallow the pill that goes with the new Vantage and DB11 V8 having AMG derived lumps in them...
Car-Matt said:
You heard it here, Red Bull set to announce engine deal with Aston martin branded engines ( presumably Cosworth ) in the near future,
Horner practically said as much in a Sky interview at lunchtime.
Horner is well known for diversionary tactics. Aston don't have the money and Mateschitz is keen to exit. Cosworth will not develop an engine without it being 100% funded by externals. So given what I've said, just who is going to finance that? The only possible scenario is that Mateschitz gifts the team to Horner and his backers and pays for the engine programme. But I can't see that happening. Horner practically said as much in a Sky interview at lunchtime.
What's more plausible is that McLaren get into bed with Cosworth.
Car-Matt said:
You heard it here, Red Bull set to announce engine deal with Aston martin branded engines ( presumably Cosworth ) in the near future
So rather than sticking a Tag Heure sticker on a Renault they'll be sticking an Aston Martin one on a Honda (don't buy the Cosworth idea - not under the current engine regs. and they are still fighting over the 2021 regs. aren't they?).I assume Tag have seen the Honda engine in the back of the McLaren and decided it's reliability didn't quite match their brand values.
What are the chances of them having reverse engineered the Renault engine (I've no idea as to how much access customers have to manufacturers engines) and then having a company such as Cosworth or Mecachrome tweak/manufacture them for them with an Aston Badge?
I'm guessing that's a wildly far fetched thought but a thought non the less!
I'm guessing that's a wildly far fetched thought but a thought non the less!
bobbo89 said:
What are the chances of them having reverse engineered the Renault engine (I've no idea as to how much access customers have to manufacturers engines) and then having a company such as Cosworth or Mecachrome tweak/manufacture them for them with an Aston Badge?
I'm guessing that's a wildly far fetched thought but a thought non the less!
Mechachrome were Renault back in the day,..a way of keeping Viry on line whilst Renault were out of the spot. Flat masterminded that iirc. Does the company now exist in an independent (non-Renault) capacity?I'm guessing that's a wildly far fetched thought but a thought non the less!
Reverse engineering? Why bother?
rubystone said:
Mechachrome were Renault back in the day,..a way of keeping Viry on line whilst Renault were out of the spot. Flat masterminded that iirc. Does the company now exist in an independent (non-Renault) capacity?
Reverse engineering? Why bother?
They manufacture the F2 engines I believe, as well as stuff for Boeing. Reverse engineering? Why bother?
Honda don't seem to have had much luck developing ground up so to me, taking apart a current engine would be a good place to start
geezerbutler said:
Well, Aston Martin are now an engine partner with AMG for road cars and Daimler AG are a part owner of Aston - so an Aston badged Mercedes unit until the regs change?
The only fly in the ointment there is that Zetsche killed the McLaren deal because he was concerned about how competitive they would be against the works team. It's said that McLaren have the second best chassis on the grid; Red Bull are said to have the best.... Red Bull will be announcing a tie up with Aston Martin in the next few weeks with speculation that it will be a rebadged Cosworth engine for 2021.
Or for a hell mary bit of speculation Williams loses it's Mercedes Power supply which then goes to Red Bull as a rebadged Aston Martin engine.
Or for a hell mary bit of speculation Williams loses it's Mercedes Power supply which then goes to Red Bull as a rebadged Aston Martin engine.
Edited by ZX10R NIN on Saturday 16th September 21:53
DanielSan said:
Orrrr he's simply typed the wrong year and made a simple error.
Even if he meant 2021, his statement relies on Aston Martin bankrolling a Cosworth development. And we know that Aston is owned by p/e companies who exist to sell in excess of what they paid. Ergo they won't be spending on anything that doesn't increase the bottom line. So the Aston story, unless it involves Red Bull buying a hefty stake in Aston Martin and then using them as a front to fund the engine development, doesn't hold water.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff