B Hartley

Author
Discussion

MikeyC

836 posts

226 months

Sunday 15th October 2017
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I wish him well, but, having seen him previously, I hope he's improved !
Recall seeing him in British F3 - came 3rd according to wikipedia
My overwhelming memory of him in WEC was in the Spa race when he messup up the final chicane and decided to drive thru the marshals post instead of taking the sensible route

F1 is a fish tank and nothing gets missed

Dermot O'Logical

2,547 posts

128 months

Sunday 15th October 2017
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rallycross said:
Dermot O'Logical said:
I'm rather surprised that Hartley, good though he undoubtedly is, has a Superlicence. Formula 1 is a very specialised discipline these days, and the new Superlicence rules coming in to effect basically mean that you'll have to finish first or second in the F2 championship to qualify.

It's a brave decision.
Not sure if serious?
Have you seen the performance and the technology involved in the cars he is driving in the WEC?
He is a world endurance championship winner and Le Mans winner of course he should have a super licence - take a look at how little experience/success some of young drivers who have arrived in F1 had!
Serious. I'm well aware of the technical challenges and levels of complexity of WEC cars, and the fact that some former F1 drivers end up there. But it's a completely different discipline to Formula 1.

The issue of young, relatively inexperienced drivers arriving in Formula 1 is the main reason for the FIA's recent revisions to the Superlicence qualification requirements.

entropy

5,403 posts

202 months

Sunday 15th October 2017
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Nice to see Hartley back in F1 - properly this time with a drive.

There's a reason why he was dropped by RB because they didn't rate him highly enough for F1. He was quick but inconsistent. I remember Mark Webber saying a year or so ago that being dropped by RB was the best thing to have happened to Brendon as it meant he had grow up, mature as a driver and refine his driving/racecraft and Brendon replied by admitting that his mind does have a habit of wandering.

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Sunday 15th October 2017
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S0 What said:
mybrainhurts said:
He learnt fly fishing from his dad....
I used to have an "i shot JR" t shirt when i was a kid biggrin
You bd....hehe

cuprabob

14,419 posts

213 months

Sunday 15th October 2017
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S0 What said:
mybrainhurts said:
He learnt fly fishing from his dad....
I used to have an "i shot JR" t shirt when i was a kid biggrin
Sue Ellen is that you? smile

Rude-boy

22,227 posts

232 months

Sunday 15th October 2017
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entropy said:
Nice to see Hartley back in F1 - properly this time with a drive.

There's a reason why he was dropped by RB because they didn't rate him highly enough for F1. He was quick but inconsistent. I remember Mark Webber saying a year or so ago that being dropped by RB was the best thing to have happened to Brendon as it meant he had grow up, mature as a driver and refine his driving/racecraft and Brendon replied by admitting that his mind does have a habit of wandering.
A little time in a Murphy Prototype learning concentration and how many different factors played over a long period of time make race wins, let alone championships, nor just a few blistering 30 minute blasts was the making of skaterboy smile

Followed his career since British F3. Lovely bloke.

CraigyMc

16,326 posts

235 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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Some Gump said:
I really hope he does well. Bloke is massively talented.

This is his stint at Petit le mans (last IMSA race).


His entire stint is better than his peers - and in multi class racing that shows not just raw pace, but an almost uncanny ability to lap slower classes without losing pace. IMO that shows a brilliant ability to predict the actions of others, and therefore brilliant racecraft.

The challenge facing him is huge though. LMP1 may be fast enough in quali to bother the tail enders' race pace in F1, but it's a completely different discipline. He's just signed, so has presumably 2-3 days of simulator time before travelling to COTA. The masses will be quite logically be comparing him to Gasley, Kyviat et all, but IMO if he gets anywhere close it's a monster drive. F1 for returnees / existing backup drivers is hard (Button, Di Resta etc), but for someone who's been in a different discipline alltogether I think realistic expectations have to stay low.

Either way, I know who I'm cheering on next weekend.
I don't understand that graph, it looks like it's either drawn wrong, or has a missing data point.

Look at the graph of Brendon Hartley in the #2 car versus LF Derani in the #22 car. Look at the written data for fastest lap versus what the graph says about fastest lap.

Dodgy graph, or dodgy data? They don't agree with each other.

DanielSan

18,747 posts

166 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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StevieBee said:
A skill that has not been without incident on the learning curve:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ox6I91os9o
That goes for every driver though, people forget Hamilton crashed into the back of a car in the pitlane... st happens

CraigyMc

16,326 posts

235 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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DanielSan said:
StevieBee said:
A skill that has not been without incident on the learning curve:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ox6I91os9o
That goes for every driver though, people forget Hamilton crashed into the back of a car in the pitlane... st happens
I'm not convinced that was actually 100% Hartley's fault. I'd have said more of a 50/50.
P1 cars don't slow down for corners - they aren't much faster in a straight line than the P2s (in fact, at some tracks they are slower due to more drag).

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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CraigyMc said:
DanielSan said:
StevieBee said:
A skill that has not been without incident on the learning curve:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ox6I91os9o
That goes for every driver though, people forget Hamilton crashed into the back of a car in the pitlane... st happens
I'm not convinced that was actually 100% Hartley's fault. I'd have said more of a 50/50.
P1 cars don't slow down for corners - they aren't much faster in a straight line than the P2s (in fact, at some tracks they are slower due to more drag).

We didn't see every angle but from what I saw I couldn't agree. He came from miles back and didn't seem to give the car in front any thought at all. Where did he think it would go? It's much easier to see the car in front than the one behind, he should have been a little more cautious. Looked like one of his lapses in concentration to me.

The speed thing's irrelevant, he must have known how much faster he was.

Dr Z

3,396 posts

170 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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CraigyMc said:
Some Gump said:
I don't understand that graph, it looks like it's either drawn wrong, or has a missing data point.

Look at the graph of Brendon Hartley in the #2 car versus LF Derani in the #22 car. Look at the written data for fastest lap versus what the graph says about fastest lap.

Dodgy graph, or dodgy data? They don't agree with each other.
yes It looks like a funky box plot, but it's not plotted properly I think!

The fastest laps for Menezes #13 & Taylor #10 do correspond and plotted as outliers but Car #22's FL is not quicker than Hartley but the whiskers are extending beyond Hartley's FL which is not correct.

The plot only takes into account 20 quickest laps by the drivers? Not sure it gives a good idea about performance in traffic?

Anyhow, I came across him when Hulkenberg went to do Le Mans and won it. Hartley was pretty quick, and put in some blistering stints IIRC, though finishing P2 in the end. Good luck to him.

CraigyMc

16,326 posts

235 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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REALIST123 said:
We didn't see every angle but from what I saw I couldn't agree. He came from miles back and didn't seem to give the car in front any thought at all. Where did he think it would go? It's much easier to see the car in front than the one behind, he should have been a little more cautious. Looked like one of his lapses in concentration to me.

The speed thing's irrelevant, he must have known how much faster he was.
Given the total ineptitude of the other posts I've seen from you, I take this as a resounding endorsement that I am correct.

Cheers smile

ukaskew

10,642 posts

220 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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Is this a (at least recent) record for the biggest gap between driving/racing any open wheeled single seater and jumping in an F1 car?


Rude-boy

22,227 posts

232 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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REALIST123 said:
CraigyMc said:
DanielSan said:
StevieBee said:
A skill that has not been without incident on the learning curve:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ox6I91os9o
That goes for every driver though, people forget Hamilton crashed into the back of a car in the pitlane... st happens
I'm not convinced that was actually 100% Hartley's fault. I'd have said more of a 50/50.
P1 cars don't slow down for corners - they aren't much faster in a straight line than the P2s (in fact, at some tracks they are slower due to more drag).

We didn't see every angle but from what I saw I couldn't agree. He came from miles back and didn't seem to give the car in front any thought at all. Where did he think it would go? It's much easier to see the car in front than the one behind, he should have been a little more cautious. Looked like one of his lapses in concentration to me.

The speed thing's irrelevant, he must have known how much faster he was.
Jesus, you guys really debating a single incident in the first race of the season with some suggesting that it shows that he is not up to the job.

If that is the case have a look at this total fubar of a move that anyone with a few years of racing knowledge knows was never going to end well unless there was a serious amount of 'help' from the other parties on the track at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW3NDGk6YQE

That bloke must be a right throbber.

CraigyMc

16,326 posts

235 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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Rude-boy said:
Jesus, you guys really debating a single incident in the first race of the season with some suggesting that it shows that he is not up to the job.

If that is the case have a look at this total fubar of a move that anyone with a few years of racing knowledge knows was never going to end well unless there was a serious amount of 'help' from the other parties on the track at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW3NDGk6YQE

That bloke must be a right throbber.
See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nR2XWEGqVE

Some Gump

12,671 posts

185 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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Dr z - that's a multi class race. Very single lap is a lap in traffic from about lap 4. The tail end of the grid is GT3 gent drivers, the sharp end is lmp2 with full pro lineups.

I can't vouch for the graph's accjracy, just took them on face value. The teitter accoiunt that meaks them seems to only do data and never offers comment / interpretation.
I was impressed with the tight spread, as well as the outright pace. In endurance, a high average pace is much more important than flying but making mistakes (e.g getting the last 10th but losing a second here and there is slower over a stint). To me, a tight spread of times shows better levels of control.

Only 20 laps of a 50 ish lap stint does seem limiting, but it's IMSA so the graph would mean nothing with the number of yellows thrown. They'll pull a yellow for a crisp packet on track, if it means keeping 3 cars together on the lead lap smile

And yes, he screwed up at Silverstone. Saw it live, I was in the grandstand opposite freezing my balls off. I still rate him tho, I'm not sure that any current factory P1 driver has never totalled it in their career!

CraigyMc

16,326 posts

235 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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ukaskew said:
Is this a (at least recent) record for the biggest gap between driving/racing any open wheeled single seater and jumping in an F1 car?
In terms of F1 experience, André Lotterer test drove a Jaguar F1 car in 2002, then drove for Caterham F1 in 2014. He has been driving in Super Formula (single seaters) the whole time though.
Hartley last drove an F1 car in 2013, but hasn't competed in single seaters since.

Montoya is probably the guy with the biggest gap between single-seater stints, although he didn't go F1-other-F1, he did F1-Nascar-Indycar; his non-single-seater stint was from 2007-2013 inclusive. He also has the distinction of actually winning in all three categories...




Dr Z

3,396 posts

170 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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Some Gump said:
Dr z - that's a multi class race. Very single lap is a lap in traffic from about lap 4. The tail end of the grid is GT3 gent drivers, the sharp end is lmp2 with full pro lineups.

I can't vouch for the graph's accjracy, just took them on face value. The teitter accoiunt that meaks them seems to only do data and never offers comment / interpretation.
I was impressed with the tight spread, as well as the outright pace. In endurance, a high average pace is much more important than flying but making mistakes (e.g getting the last 10th but losing a second here and there is slower over a stint). To me, a tight spread of times shows better levels of control.

Only 20 laps of a 50 ish lap stint does seem limiting, but it's IMSA so the graph would mean nothing with the number of yellows thrown. They'll pull a yellow for a crisp packet on track, if it means keeping 3 cars together on the lead lap smile
I see, fair points.

phugleigh

141 posts

229 months

Tuesday 17th October 2017
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Think he's great - fast in qualifying mode and fast in the race,
stepped out of f1 honestly because it wasn't right time and steps back in because he's ready. endurance racing has made him ready.
What would be nice would be opening the door for the Porsche boys and girls once more.


paua

Original Poster:

5,649 posts

142 months

Sunday 22nd October 2017
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In a positive for Hartley, his best lap (1 minute 39.979 seconds) was faster than Kvyat's best of 1 minute 40.971. Will be interesting to see who drives the next race.