Discussion
Tend to agree with the "funnel" model. Having said that, though, I also find Marko to be somewhat unpleasant & lacking people skills. Thought that Webber got shafted in the Turkey crash. Incident did not reflect well on Vettel, Marko or RB. Had hopes that Webber would win that year - last ( & deciding) race, he seems to have done a "Greg Norman".
Some Gump said:
F1 is like a funnel. Thousands of karters at 1 end, rapidly whittled down to a few that make some form of junior program / get a decent sponsor. To even be one of those chosen few is a huge thing, because it means that instead of daddy's bill it's a paid job. Marco's actions are like the slash at the end of that funnel - it looks brutal, it looks severe. It's easy to say "hey, you just ruined that kids career, dropped them like a stone", but that kid only has a career because of red bull.
Totally agree. The programme is commendable. This is F1. The pinnacle. It should be brutal. It's not like dropping a long-serving Accounts Payable Clerk because they are struggling to cope. If a driver can't cope with defeat, then they are not F1 quality.
Note: Amid this alleged 'brutality' .....drivers like Buemi and Hartley have still received Red Bull personal sponsorship even after being dropped from the F1 programme.
paua said:
Tend to agree with the "funnel" model. Having said that, though, I also find Marko to be somewhat unpleasant & lacking people skills. Thought that Webber got shafted in the Turkey crash. Incident did not reflect well on Vettel, Marko or RB. Had hopes that Webber would win that year - last ( & deciding) race, he seems to have done a "Greg Norman".
Was gutted that year.....paua said:
Having said that, though, I also find Marko to be somewhat unpleasant & lacking people skills.
He's not in F1 to make friends. Marko keeps distance from the drivers he's in charge of. It's impersonal - then again, you son't complain that a surgeon keeps professional distance from the patient.paua said:
Thought that Webber got shafted in the Turkey crash. Incident did not reflect well on Vettel, Marko or RB. Had hopes that Webber would win that year - last ( & deciding) race, he seems to have done a "Greg Norman".
Webber has always been close to Didi - he wasn't a Marko guy.CraigyMc said:
paua said:
Having said that, though, I also find Marko to be somewhat unpleasant & lacking people skills.
He's not in F1 to make friends. Marko keeps distance from the drivers he's in charge of. It's impersonal - then again, you son't complain that a surgeon keeps professional distance from the patient.paua said:
Thought that Webber got shafted in the Turkey crash. Incident did not reflect well on Vettel, Marko or RB. Had hopes that Webber would win that year - last ( & deciding) race, he seems to have done a "Greg Norman".
Webber has always been close to Didi - he wasn't a Marko guy.Redlake27 said:
Totally agree. The programme is commendable.
There is another aspect to this and other 'young driver' programmes in that much like the football academies and similar in other sports, it's as much about preventing rival teams accessing talent early as it is about fostering that talent. There was some discussion a while back about the increasing power of Premier League teams in determining the career progression of young players. Whilst it is not possible for anyone under the age of 16 to sign a contract, the teams circumvent this through various means and I assume the same is in F1.
I've long thought that for motor sport, a more efficient way to support young drivers is for the premier formulae to make a financial contribution to an independently run programme, administered by the FIA. The idea being that as young drivers demonstrate their worth, they rise through the ranks based upon merit so that by the time they acquire a super licence, the F1 teams have available to them a pool of proven talent and can choose on this basis rather than who brings the most money.
One could argue that Red Bull and others have decoupled wealth from progression but has this been at the expense of highly talented drivers whose face didn't fit or weren't able to join a rival team due to the contract they had?
paua said:
CraigyMc said:
paua said:
Having said that, though, I also find Marko to be somewhat unpleasant & lacking people skills.
He's not in F1 to make friends. Marko keeps distance from the drivers he's in charge of. It's impersonal - then again, you son't complain that a surgeon keeps professional distance from the patient.paua said:
Thought that Webber got shafted in the Turkey crash. Incident did not reflect well on Vettel, Marko or RB. Had hopes that Webber would win that year - last ( & deciding) race, he seems to have done a "Greg Norman".
Webber has always been close to Didi - he wasn't a Marko guy.Webber was not a Red Bull Academy driver, Vettel was
Webber was proving to be at least as good as Vettel and Marko required an Academy driver to be the 'number one' in the team. Remember RB was effectively a one-car team with a second support driver.
Would appear that those that have an opinion that matters, are not concerned about his age.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/41785009
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/41785009
dinkel said:
2012:
Guy on the left.
Gregor Fiskens McLaren M1C won the race, but it was Brendon Hartley who ran the quickest lap: 2 secs ahead of Fiskens with a 2:31 secs. Ding dong!
Hello Dinks. Guy on the left.
Gregor Fiskens McLaren M1C won the race, but it was Brendon Hartley who ran the quickest lap: 2 secs ahead of Fiskens with a 2:31 secs. Ding dong!
Actually, it was Brendon and Roger that won the race on the road, but under yellows for a safety car Roger was deemed to have passed the car before the green flag post once the SC boards came in, so he was docked a time penalty that put the car back into 3rd place on the official results. Gregor and Peter were then awarded the win. I built both cars and my slap head in in that picture. That's the weekend I tore all the ligaments in my foot when I fell down some dodgy Belgium stairs, still hurts occasionally.
That weekend Brendon also drove the Mercury Comet Cyclone I built and ran, as well as Rogers GT40 used in the 6hr race, where they led before the gearbox failed.
When I first met Brendon for the Brands Hatch meeting, he was driving the McLaren M1C and also driving one of Rogers F1 cars. The M1C let him down when it hit gear selection problems so he couldn't show his talent in that, but he also drove the ex Nigel Mansell Lotus F1, winning the race comfortably. I think that was the last single seater he raced before the Torro Rosso. That car was run by my pal Nick who works at Classic Team Lotus.
It was quite fitting for Kiwi Brendon to be driving one of Bruce McLarens Can Am cars and has now made it to F1.
Few of my pics
Brendon in the M1C leading the other M1C, pity I couldn't keep the 1-2 that weekend.
The 1964 Mercury Comet Cyclone
The GT40
The Lotus
On the podium with the win, horah, before the penalty, boo
You can watch this video from onboard the White McLaren M1C for the first two laps of the race, its quite good fun. Brendon is the Red McLaren in front. He clears off after two laps.
https://youtu.be/CLpC8UWw_c0
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 30th October 22:26
Paul Dishman said:
he didn't name, who'd worked for a day with an engineer but hadn't bothered to find out the engineer's name.
Considering he has the decency of not naming likely due to being an active driver, given his short stint and James Allen noting he once had a poor attitude you don't have to be a genius to come up with Brendan Hartley.Saying that...
Redlake27 said:
Yes, Alguesuari, Vergne, Kvyat , Speed, Bourdais and Buemi were sidelined. But if Marko had thought they had more potential than Webber in 09-12 they'dve been promoted as quickly as Max, Daniel and Seb were.
It has been a brutal scheme for some, but I can't argue with the decisions. They will soon have a lot of data on Gasly v Sainz, Kyvat and Hartley to make the next cull.
Their conveyor belt system of bring in talent has its flaws.It has been a brutal scheme for some, but I can't argue with the decisions. They will soon have a lot of data on Gasly v Sainz, Kyvat and Hartley to make the next cull.
Take JEV. He was inferior than Kvyat at STR but Kvyat struggled against Ricciardo. However Ricciardo was arguably equal to JEV at STR; former quicker in quali and the latter quicker in races. Shouldn't JEV have a chance at RBR?
entropy said:
Paul Dishman said:
he didn't name, who'd worked for a day with an engineer but hadn't bothered to find out the engineer's name.
Considering he has the decency of not naming likely due to being an active driver, given his short stint and James Allen noting he once had a poor attitude you don't have to be a genius to come up with Brendan Hartley.CraigyMc said:
paua said:
Hope the car/engine (Honda) won't keep crapping out.
According to a chap over on F1technical, next years Honda is a bit of a beast.Time will tell, and we've heard it before, etc.
I hope Honda get their act together for next year (and Renault too), but i don't see why they will create a stonking power unit. They are keeping the same design as this year so hopefully that helps with chasing out the reliability issues at least.
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