Grand Prix Driver, Amazon Mclaren Documntary

[HighwayStar]

Apologise if this has already been mentioned or posted already.....
Just stumbled across this on Motorsport.com
"A new behind-the-scenes Amazon documentary on the McLaren F1 team has revealed how genuine fears were that Fernando Alonso would quit on the eve of the 2017 season – and there being a risk of team "collapse".

The series "Grand Prix Driver", which is narrated by Michael Douglas and produced by Manish Pandey, a BAFTA winner for his involvement in Senna, is being released on Amazon Prime from February 9."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/amazon-mclaren-...

[Nickp82]

Thanks for highlighting this, look forward to watching it.

[HardtopManual]

Wow, a genuinely useful post in the F1 forum, could a mod please pin it?!

Joking aside, thanks for the reminder.

[HighwayStar]

HardtopManual said:

Wow, a genuinely useful post in the F1 forum, could a mod please pin it?!

Joking aside, thanks for the reminder.

I only found it because I couldn’t be bothered to leave the office for lunch.
There appears to have been no marketing of the documentary and I have Amazon Prime. Saying that I use Netflix a lot more so there maybe some promotion I haven’t seen on Prime.
I’m expecting it to be rather good as producer Manish Pandey did a fine job Senna.

[HighwayStar]

HighwayStar said:

HardtopManual said:

Wow, a genuinely useful post in the F1 forum, could a mod please pin it?!

Joking aside, thanks for the reminder.

I only found it because I couldn’t be bothered to leave the office for lunch.
There appears to have been no marketing of the documentary and I have Amazon Prime. Saying that I use Netflix a lot more so there maybe some promotion I haven’t seen on Prime.
I’m expecting it to be rather good as producer Manish Pandey did a fine job with Senna.

[Vaud]

Reminder that it is now available. I haven't watched it yet, but it is available.

[Ed Moses]

Just finished watching the series. I found it an interesting background on the bulid up to the season, getting to see the amount of work done by the factory staff, rather than just the drivers and team spokespeople.

[Dermot O'Logical]

I watched it yesterday, and it's genuinely interesting and gives an insight into the pressures on everybody (and there are a lot of them) within the team, without too much dumbing-down and syrupy condescension which blights so many documentaries.

It's well worth a watch.

[theAmerican]

Now on youtube; enjoy whilst it’s up. Likely, to get flagged pretty soon I suspect

[williamp]

Fascinating how they work: their methodology, and not afraid to admit where they are failing so it can be addressed....compared to honda who didnt seem very straight at all... its just a software update, be ready in 1 hour...

Youd never think which one is british and one japanese.

[Vocal Minority]

Assuming Zack brown had no influence in the edit of course..... pssst he probably did

[Wh00sher]

I enjoyed that. An interesting behind the scenes view we never usually get to see.

Honda came across really badly last year and watching that did nothing to change my mind.

[cgt2]

You could sense the frustration of the McLaren guys with Honda when they were trying to get the mounts fabricated, though it amazes me that at such a level the fundamental issue appeared to be lack of communication.

I think this is where Ferrari and Merc have a real advantage, close working relationship and synergy between engine and chassis departments. Think about that one isolated example of McLaren/Honda shown here and imagine how many other times similar issues would have occurred.

[227bhp]

It's difficult to understand how they can mess things up so badly with the technology, the money and the experience they have.
Next time I fit an engine and the bolts don't fit or it doesn't start straight away I think I'll feel a lot better.

[Dermot O'Logical]

cgt2 said:

You could sense the frustration of the McLaren guys with Honda when they were trying to get the mounts fabricated, though it amazes me that at such a level the fundamental issue appeared to be lack of communication.

I think this is where Ferrari and Merc have a real advantage, close working relationship and synergy between engine and chassis departments. Think about that one isolated example of McLaren/Honda shown here and imagine how many other times similar issues would have occurred.

Exactly. And just remember that these instances are the ones that they allowed to be shown in the films.

I would happily watch them again. A fascinating insight.

[mp3manager]

Enjoyed it but I definitely got the feeling that some of the dept heads were winging it in the meetings.

[StevieBee]

mp3manager said:

Enjoyed it but I definitely got the feeling that some of the dept heads were winging it in the meetings.

Yes, I thought the same. There seemed to be less - what's the word? - 'exactness' than I was expecting and can't help feeling that the absence of Ron Dennis is having a detrimental impact on the team. I may be wrong but rather suspect that production timelines wouldn't have been an issue in the past.

By the way "The Return" is well worth a watch - on Amazon, documentary about the Ford GT return to LeMans in 2016.

[HighwayStar]

StevieBee said:

mp3manager said:

Enjoyed it but I definitely got the feeling that some of the dept heads were winging it in the meetings.

Yes, I thought the same. There seemed to be less - what's the word? - 'exactness' than I was expecting and can't help feeling that the absence of Ron Dennis is having a detrimental impact on the team. I may be wrong but rather suspect that production timelines wouldn't have been an issue in the past.

By the way "The Return" is well worth a watch - on Amazon, documentary about the Ford GT return to LeMans in 2016.

Don't forget Ron went to Honda thinking they would be able to deliver to the same level they did in they Senna days. Ron was there for 2 of the 3 Honda years and was already frustrated with the lack of progress. Bolt holes not lining up, fabricating mounts were the least of the problems.
From what I've read, one of the issues was Honda did not have a dedicated Formula 1 engine department. They had not kept abreast of developments and engineers would pass through as part of there general training rather than being dedicated to the cause.
Mercedes had a lot of time to perfect there Hybrid package before bringing it to the track. Honda, it appears, underestimated the task although I would imagine that as they were pushing hard there would've been an initial expectation of some 'development' in public. Not 3yrs though.

[StevieBee]

HighwayStar said:

StevieBee said:

mp3manager said:

Enjoyed it but I definitely got the feeling that some of the dept heads were winging it in the meetings.

Yes, I thought the same. There seemed to be less - what's the word? - 'exactness' than I was expecting and can't help feeling that the absence of Ron Dennis is having a detrimental impact on the team. I may be wrong but rather suspect that production timelines wouldn't have been an issue in the past.

By the way "The Return" is well worth a watch - on Amazon, documentary about the Ford GT return to LeMans in 2016.

Don't forget Ron went to Honda thinking they would be able to deliver to the same level they did in they Senna days. Ron was there for 2 of the 3 Honda years and was already frustrated with the lack of progress. Bolt holes not lining up, fabricating mounts were the least of the problems.
From what I've read, one of the issues was Honda did not have a dedicated Formula 1 engine department. They had not kept abreast of developments and engineers would pass through as part of there general training rather than being dedicated to the cause.
Mercedes had a lot of time to perfect there Hybrid package before bringing it to the track. Honda, it appears, underestimated the task although I would imagine that as they were pushing hard there would've been an initial expectation of some 'development' in public. Not 3yrs though.

Yeah - my thinking was more about the car side of things rather than engine. I do have sympathy for RD as the reasoning behind his thinking was sound.

My take is that development across all of F1 has become far more collaborative over the past 15 years and collaboration isn't something that the Japanese do particularly well, partly a cultural thing and partly language. In the past, didn't matter so much.

You only have to look at Toyota which, IIRC hold the record for the most amount of money spent for the least amount of points.

[HighwayStar]

StevieBee said:

HighwayStar said:

StevieBee said:

mp3manager said:

Enjoyed it but I definitely got the feeling that some of the dept heads were winging it in the meetings.

Yes, I thought the same. There seemed to be less - what's the word? - 'exactness' than I was expecting and can't help feeling that the absence of Ron Dennis is having a detrimental impact on the team. I may be wrong but rather suspect that production timelines wouldn't have been an issue in the past.

By the way "The Return" is well worth a watch - on Amazon, documentary about the Ford GT return to LeMans in 2016.

Don't forget Ron went to Honda thinking they would be able to deliver to the same level they did in they Senna days. Ron was there for 2 of the 3 Honda years and was already frustrated with the lack of progress. Bolt holes not lining up, fabricating mounts were the least of the problems.
From what I've read, one of the issues was Honda did not have a dedicated Formula 1 engine department. They had not kept abreast of developments and engineers would pass through as part of there general training rather than being dedicated to the cause.
Mercedes had a lot of time to perfect there Hybrid package before bringing it to the track. Honda, it appears, underestimated the task although I would imagine that as they were pushing hard there would've been an initial expectation of some 'development' in public. Not 3yrs though.

Yeah - my thinking was more about the car side of things rather than engine. I do have sympathy for RD as the reasoning behind his thinking was sound.

My take is that development across all of F1 has become far more collaborative over the past 15 years and collaboration isn't something that the Japanese do particularly well, partly a cultural thing and partly language. In the past, didn't matter so much.

You only have to look at Toyota which, IIRC hold the record for the most amount of money spent for the least amount of points.

I don't think it's necessarily a Japanese issue... I think it's where any company is at the particular point of the state of the art.
Honda got the job done with Williams and then McLaren back in the day... But can't now.
Porsche got there with McLaren but failed with Arrows. The engine was too heavy.
A Renault was the engine of choice for a long time and they are trying to get back there.
Ferrari of course have always had their own engine and have not always delivered collaborating with their own engine dept.
Ford too, they weren't always front runners. McLaren didn't have a great time with them.
Collaboration has to been done in the right way but ultimately the supplier has to bring a great engine. McLaren's problems wasn't the poorly packaging and installation of a monumental Honda engine or a evil handling dog of a car. Honda just didn't produce the masterpiece McLaren were expecting.