F1 Past

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Deesee

8,331 posts

82 months

Wednesday 10th July 2019
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
Vaud said:
Deesee said:
I’m sure there’s a chap on here who does the preparation for a few of these old F1 cars.
It's poppopbangbang
There are a few other threads running about different cars, but I think this is the most recent:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Thats the one, a great read.. thanks guys..

stevesuk

1,345 posts

181 months

Wednesday 10th July 2019
quotequote all
Deesee said:
thegreenhell said:
Vaud said:
Deesee said:
I’m sure there’s a chap on here who does the preparation for a few of these old F1 cars.
It's poppopbangbang
There are a few other threads running about different cars, but I think this is the most recent:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Thats the one, a great read.. thanks guys..
Yeah, a couple of years back, his company ran a newer Minardi in BOSS - the thread about it is also a great read - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... Back then, the series had a Jaguar R5, Torro Rosso, and occasionally a Super Aguri and Arrows. I think the owner of the Jaguar crashed it during one of the races a year or two back.

Its funny that an old F1 car from 20 years ago still looks cutting edge today.

dr_gn

16,140 posts

183 months

Wednesday 10th July 2019
quotequote all
stevesuk said:
Deesee said:
thegreenhell said:
Vaud said:
Deesee said:
I’m sure there’s a chap on here who does the preparation for a few of these old F1 cars.
It's poppopbangbang
There are a few other threads running about different cars, but I think this is the most recent:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Thats the one, a great read.. thanks guys..
Its funny that an old F1 car from 20 years ago still looks cutting edge today.
Partly because I think the regulations still require a high 'airbox'/engine cover/fin, even though it's not necessary on the latest generation of cars. It's there mainly for sponsorship area. Bit like the titanium skid blocks, there to make sparks, and adding to the 'spectacle' for the hard of thinking. Another reason why it's become a joke.

dr_gn

16,140 posts

183 months

Wednesday 10th July 2019
quotequote all
Interesting to see today's announcement of the 5 year deal to keep the BGP at Silverstone. Funny to compare it with the same situation back in '87: They announced the deal over the tannoy during the 1000kms WEC meeting in May. Everyone in the crowd cheered for a few seconds, watched the Jaguar XJR-9's trounce the opposition, and went home happy.

And that was that.

This time there's been months of social media speculation beforehand, and no doubt there will be months of social media bullst to follow. None of which will have made one iota of difference to the outcome.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Thursday 18th July 2019
quotequote all
One of my favourite seasons ever. To see a team that just about didn't exist at the start of the year win the drivers and constructors Championships was unbelievable.

Anyway, this is some great footage.

Jenson Button drives 2009 Brawn BGP001 car around Silverstone!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhZj536_y_Q

Vaud

50,291 posts

154 months

Thursday 18th July 2019
quotequote all
ELUSIVEJIM said:
One of my favourite seasons ever. To see a team that just about didn't exist at the start of the year win the drivers and constructors Champions
One of my favourites as well.. but it did exist. They just inherited a massive Honda infrastructure - a great move but there was a lot of sunk cost that they inherited.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Thursday 18th July 2019
quotequote all
Vaud said:
One of my favourites as well.. but it did exist. They just inherited a massive Honda infrastructure - a great move but there was a lot of sunk cost that they inherited.
I keep wondering if Honda had stayed with it for 2009 if they would have won without the Mercedes engine.

I am just not sure.

Vaud

50,291 posts

154 months

Thursday 18th July 2019
quotequote all
ELUSIVEJIM said:
I keep wondering if Honda had stayed with it for 2009 if they would have won without the Mercedes engine.

I am just not sure.
I doubt it. Ross said on one of the Motorsport podcasts that the Honda was way down on power/efficiency vs what he knew from Ferrari - so the Merc offer, although a compromise in installation was worth the risk?

Deesee

8,331 posts

82 months

Thursday 18th July 2019
quotequote all
Was the chassis and double diffuser not the work of super aguri?

Some would say Ross Brawn got a bit too much credit, and Antony Davidson could have well done what Jenson did.

Anyway awesome stuff, and great memories..


coppice

8,564 posts

143 months

Friday 19th July 2019
quotequote all
The trouble is that people have been saying that sort of thing about drivers, especially , for decades . Shoulda ,woulda coulda are meaningless . All that matters is what happened - who won what .

Why? Despite Tommy Byrne's fanclub banging on about his sublime talent, conspiracy by McLaren blah blah , at best TB is a footnote. He looked mighty in F3 and might have been another Hunt or Hamilton. Or not - consider the careers of Dave Walker and Jan Magnussen , who were both dominant in F3 when F3 really , really mattered . If neither had got an F1 drive, forums would still be burning at the injustice of future world champs being deprived of their chance . But they did get F1 drives , and both were hopeless.

I did rate Davidson , and I loved seeing him and his mate Takuma Sato in F3 , but the answer is that we will never know .

stevesuk

1,345 posts

181 months

Friday 19th July 2019
quotequote all
coppice said:
Why? Despite Tommy Byrne's fanclub banging on about his sublime talent, conspiracy by McLaren blah blah , at best TB is a footnote. He looked mighty in F3 and might have been another Hunt or Hamilton. Or not - consider the careers of Dave Walker and Jan Magnussen , who were both dominant in F3 when F3 really , really mattered .
Another name I'd add to that list would be Antonio Pizzonia. I remember when I used to read Autosport most weeks, they wrote endless praising articles about how he was going to the be the next superstar in F1 (he won the British F3 championship with 5 wins).

Then he got to F3000 and finally F1, and just fizzled out...

Vaud

50,291 posts

154 months

Friday 19th July 2019
quotequote all
Deesee said:
Was the chassis and double diffuser not the work of super aguri?

Some would say Ross Brawn got a bit too much credit, and Antony Davidson could have well done what Jenson did.
I think you might be right - that it was a super aguri designer that spotted the loophole - in fact a number of teams did but Brawn executed it the best. Ross even tried to flag up to the other teams... "are you sure, guys...?" when he saw the downforce numbers.

As for Antony Davidson, etc its to be polite, tosh. Rubens was a very competent driver (better than Antony I'd argue) but he didnt do it.

If, maybes, whatever. It didn't happen and is a pointless and circular argument.

sgtBerbatov

2,597 posts

80 months

Friday 19th July 2019
quotequote all
coppice said:
I did rate Davidson , and I loved seeing him and his mate Takuma Sato in F3 , but the answer is that we will never know .
I remember reading in a newspaper when he was making his debut in the Minardi (I think) at Belgium, and how the parents drove over there in a clapped out Peugeot 309 that had already done over 250,000 miles. Don't know why it stuck in my head, but it had.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Friday 19th July 2019
quotequote all
Vaud said:
I doubt it. Ross said on one of the Motorsport podcasts that the Honda was way down on power/efficiency vs what he knew from Ferrari - so the Merc offer, although a compromise in installation was worth the risk?
I was surprised to learn that Ferrari had offered Brawn and engine as well as Mercedes for 2009.

The Mercedes was a risk and as you say it was far from straight forward but it all worked out beautifully.

Not having KERS also helped especially in the early part of the season.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Friday 19th July 2019
quotequote all
Vaud said:
I think you might be right - that it was a super aguri designer that spotted the loophole - in fact a number of teams did but Brawn executed it the best. Ross even tried to flag up to the other teams... "are you sure, guys...?" when he saw the downforce numbers.

As for Antony Davidson, etc its to be polite, tosh. Rubens was a very competent driver (better than Antony I'd argue) but he didnt do it.

If, maybes, whatever. It didn't happen and is a pointless and circular argument.
I am sure it was Brawn, Williams and Toyota who all had the double diffuser.

The story goes that Toyota hired ex Honda staff at the end of 2008 and this is why they came up with the idea. Williams stated they had the idea themselves.

The double diffuser keeps being the main focus for why the Brawn car was so good but there were so many other aspects.

This clip seems to have a lot of the above being mentioned.

The guy in the clip should be on Cbeebies biggrin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN-K1trQFPQ

chunder27

2,309 posts

207 months

Friday 19th July 2019
quotequote all
I remember watching Davidson making a complete fool of himself driving a Peugeot diesel at Silverstone many moons ago, I think they year the Wing hideousness was being built.

He threw away an entire session pretty much, over the bump that was on the way into Abbey, all the other P1 guys were aware even his team-mates, he went over it first lap, nearly spun and then did it again and did spin. Juts thought to myself he was a muppet.

He was overly aggressive in WEC initially and for me always came across as a cocky little sprat when he was involved in F1.

No doubt he had talent, but he did not get the breaks or take advantage of it.

plenty of others did get the breaks he did and did more.

entropy

5,405 posts

202 months

Friday 19th July 2019
quotequote all
Vaud said:
As for Antony Davidson, etc its to be polite, tosh. Rubens was a very competent driver (better than Antony I'd argue) but he didnt do it.
Agreed. I don't rate Ant much at all in F1. Average, competent but didn't have much of an X factor about him. At best about equal to Taku but Taku drove awesome with Super Aguri and by his standards he was driving another level with fantastic consistent racecraft that has never been bettered since.


anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Thursday 25th July 2019
quotequote all
When the German GP was split between Nürburgring GP-Strecke and the Hockenheimring.

Crazy race with horrendous weather. Murray Walker couldn't cope biggrin

On a serious note seeing the JCB's entering the gravel traps with cars still spinning off frown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hxVZvG897U

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 25th July 17:43

Thundersports

656 posts

144 months

Friday 26th July 2019
quotequote all
stevesuk said:
Yeah, a couple of years back, his company ran a newer Minardi in BOSS - the thread about it is also a great read - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... Back then, the series had a Jaguar R5, Torro Rosso, and occasionally a Super Aguri and Arrows. I think the owner of the Jaguar crashed it during one of the races a year or two back.

Its funny that an old F1 car from 20 years ago still looks cutting edge today.
There's a long thread on ten tenths about Boss/Euroboss basically a good and interesting series ruined by a bunch of wealthy Dutchman who got what they wanted and have disappeared. What's left is a series which is a graveyard for spec series formula cars which on the whole are boring. There's a couple of F1 cars left a Red Bull raced by the guy who now runs the series and nearly always wins. The F1 cars have vanished due to even a Benetton B197 not being competitive compared to a 5 year old GP2 car.
Klass Zwart was the Jaguar R5 driver who had a big shunt as Assen.

Thundersports

656 posts

144 months

Friday 26th July 2019
quotequote all
chunder27 said:
I remember watching Davidson making a complete fool of himself driving a Peugeot diesel at Silverstone many moons ago, I think they year the Wing hideousness was being built.

He threw away an entire session pretty much, over the bump that was on the way into Abbey, all the other P1 guys were aware even his team-mates, he went over it first lap, nearly spun and then did it again and did spin. Juts thought to myself he was a muppet.

He was overly aggressive in WEC initially and for me always came across as a cocky little sprat when he was involved in F1.

No doubt he had talent, but he did not get the breaks or take advantage of it.

plenty of others did get the breaks he did and did more.
Agree he's a complete cockwomble. Comes across cocky and arrogant when he really never achieved anything! If you compare him to Damon or Johnny who both did he makes a complete bellend of himself.