McLaren

Author
Discussion

revrange

1,170 posts

128 months

Thursday 15th November 2018
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130R said:
McLaren have the 4th highest budget in F1 (behind Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull). They are not some plucky underdog. Their performance in recent years has been embarrassing, especially with a driver as good as Alonso.
Not sure that is correct anymore now they dont have Honda's money, that was the story last year

rdjohn

3,558 posts

139 months

Thursday 15th November 2018
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thegreenhell said:
It's reported this morning that Bob Fernley has joined McLaren, but only to lead their Indycar programme.
I wish Bob was running the show in Woking and Zak running Indy cars, United Autosports, his historic racing antics, or whatever else might take his fancy.

But on a positive note, I feel that Bob will form the backbone of a good entry, if anybody doing a one off race can create the potential to win.

revrange

1,170 posts

128 months

Tuesday 20th November 2018
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Gaz. said:
I thought the Bahraini's made up the difference? Hence the Crown Prince having a face like a slapped arse after shelling out $260m?
Not sure its true, others on here have pointed out Mclaren are bleeding cash, hence the investor early in the summer pumping $200m into the group. The F1 team use to be the bench mark for sponsorship in F1, now there barely a sticker on it.

Also dont forget they have gone from free enginers to having to pay for them.

ralphrj

2,872 posts

135 months

Tuesday 20th November 2018
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There is an investor update on McLaren's financial performance scheduled for next Tuesday (27/11).

Hopefully there will be something positive in them this time.



With regard to budgets, McLaren may still have the 4th largest but the gap to the top 3 is getting bigger.

MartG

14,405 posts

148 months

Tuesday 27th November 2018
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New sponsor announced - smartphone manufacturer OnePlus

https://www.mclaren.com/formula1/partners/oneplus/...

Edited by MartG on Tuesday 27th November 17:28

CoolHands

9,756 posts

139 months

Tuesday 27th November 2018
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I think they’re mad. They’ve gone from Honda to Renault and it’s cost them $100million. And red bull are going the other way!

And it turns out the engine isn’t the problem anyway their entire car and organisation structure is st. They should have saved the hundred mill. and developed the car.

I reckon either engine was fine to propel them. We can can see from other teams with the same engines that the engine is not th main factor in grid position.

HustleRussell

16,666 posts

104 months

Tuesday 27th November 2018
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CoolHands said:
I think they’re mad. They’ve gone from Honda to Renault and it’s cost them $100million. And red bull are going the other way!

And it turns out the engine isn’t the problem anyway their entire car and organisation structure is st. They should have saved the hundred mill. and developed the car.

I reckon either engine was fine to propel them. We can can see from other teams with the same engines that the engine is not th main factor in grid position.
Thanks Captain Hindsight!

FourWheelDrift

77,523 posts

228 months

Tuesday 27th November 2018
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Fernando Alonso / Jimmie Johnson car swap - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-pAxfbZRIU

I see they used a proper F1 car, one of the V8s smile I wonder what engine that had in it?

CoolHands

9,756 posts

139 months

Tuesday 27th November 2018
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HustleRussell said:
Thanks Captain Hindsight!
Haha yeah it is a bit biggrin

But what makes me laugh is DC always goes on about how the ‘teams have all the data’ when talking about driver swaps etc and who is marginally quicker than another. Yet some numpty at McLaren couldn’t work out that a change in engine wasn’t going to magically propel them up the grid? Have they got st for brains?!!?

TobyTR

587 posts

90 months

Tuesday 27th November 2018
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What's everyone's opinion on Ron - if he was still leading McLaren's F1 operation and persisted with Honda into 2018 with total commitment and tunnel-vision, would they be in a better position now?

I understand Ron can be a difficult, complex individual, but he strikes me as he knew what he was doing. Being Honda's sole focus must surely have been better than a customer Renault engine

ralphrj

2,872 posts

135 months

Wednesday 28th November 2018
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ralphrj said:
There is an investor update on McLaren's financial performance scheduled for next Tuesday (27/11).

Hopefully there will be something positive in them this time.



With regard to budgets, McLaren may still have the 4th largest but the gap to the top 3 is getting bigger.
I've had a quick look through the latest investor update.

Income from the F1 team fell by 41% from £165m to £98m for the 9 months. Then they have the cost of the Renault engine on top. Yikes.

Group turnover and EBITDA were boosted by Automotive (but year on year comparisons are difficult as practically no cars were delivered in the first quarter of 2017).

Cash burn remains horrendous. In the last 15 months the company has borrowed £560m+ through a bond issue and received £100m additional capital from Michael Latifi. At the end of September they only had £6m left in the bank but received £50m of additional investment from Latifi 2 weeks ago. However, at current spending that will have gone before next season starts.


thegreenhell

5,998 posts

163 months

Wednesday 28th November 2018
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Meanwhile, they say they have no regrets over ditching Honda

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/46355179

Also, I'm not sure I understand how their technical structure will work. They now have:

Peter Prodromou - head of aerodynamics
Pat Fry - engineering director
Andrea Stella - performance director
soon to be joined by James Key - technical director.

How many chefs do they need? Who's actually in charge of the design?

DanielSan

14,282 posts

111 months

Wednesday 28th November 2018
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
Meanwhile, they say they have no regrets over ditching Honda

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/46355179

Also, I'm not sure I understand how their technical structure will work. They now have:

Peter Prodromou - head of aerodynamics
Pat Fry - engineering director
Andrea Stella - performance director
soon to be joined by James Key - technical director.

How many chefs do they need? Who's actually in charge of the design?
Mclarens issue summed up on in a few lines? Too many chiefs combined with decision by committee. And going on the last couple of cars you have to wonder if the department's speak to each other before each engineering their own bit?

ralphrj

2,872 posts

135 months

Wednesday 28th November 2018
quotequote all
DanielSan said:
thegreenhell said:
Meanwhile, they say they have no regrets over ditching Honda

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/46355179

Also, I'm not sure I understand how their technical structure will work. They now have:

Peter Prodromou - head of aerodynamics
Pat Fry - engineering director
Andrea Stella - performance director
soon to be joined by James Key - technical director.

How many chefs do they need? Who's actually in charge of the design?
Mclarens issue summed up on in a few lines? Too many chiefs combined with decision by committee. And going on the last couple of cars you have to wonder if the department's speak to each other before each engineering their own bit?
I remember similar comments about a certain Brackley based team in 2013...

I wouldn't bet much that we are on the verge of 5 seasons of domination though.

FourWheelDrift

77,523 posts

228 months

Wednesday 28th November 2018
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
Meanwhile, they say they have no regrets over ditching Honda

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/46355179

Also, I'm not sure I understand how their technical structure will work. They now have:

Peter Prodromou - head of aerodynamics
Pat Fry - engineering director
Andrea Stella - performance director
soon to be joined by James Key - technical director.

How many chefs do they need? Who's actually in charge of the design?
Not enough, Mercedes has:

Executive director (technical): James Allison
Technical director: Bob Bell
Engineering director: Aldo Costa
Technology director: Geoff Willis
Performance director: Mark Ellis


Edited as that had Paddy Lowe on there and not James Allison. People might have changed but the positions haven't.

Kraken

1,072 posts

144 months

Wednesday 28th November 2018
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Not for quite a while they haven't.

The Crack Fox

13,518 posts

136 months

Wednesday 28th November 2018
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FourWheelDrift said:
Not enough, Mercedes has:

Executive director (technical): James Allison
Technical director: Bob Bell
Engineering director: Aldo Costa
Technology director: Geoff Willis
Performance director: Mark Ellis


Edited as that had Paddy Lowe on there and not James Allison. People might have changed but the positions haven't.
They're making lots of engines, too. Are the people above included in that?

MartG

14,405 posts

148 months

Wednesday 28th November 2018
quotequote all
The Crack Fox said:
FourWheelDrift said:
Not enough, Mercedes has:

Executive director (technical): James Allison
Technical director: Bob Bell
Engineering director: Aldo Costa
Technology director: Geoff Willis
Performance director: Mark Ellis


Edited as that had Paddy Lowe on there and not James Allison. People might have changed but the positions haven't.
They're making lots of engines, too. Are the people above included in that?
The engine manufacture is a separate operation - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes_AMG_High_Pe...

StevieBee

7,808 posts

199 months

Wednesday 28th November 2018
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TobyTR said:
What's everyone's opinion on Ron - if he was still leading McLaren's F1 operation and persisted with Honda into 2018 with total commitment and tunnel-vision, would they be in a better position now?

I understand Ron can be a difficult, complex individual, but he strikes me as he knew what he was doing. Being Honda's sole focus must surely have been better than a customer Renault engine
His reasoning for opting for Honda was spot on. My opinion is that McLaren would be in a much better position had he stayed. Perhaps not yet troubling the top two but possibly on par with Red Bull.

Frimley111R

9,849 posts

178 months

Wednesday 28th November 2018
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
His reasoning for opting for Honda was spot on. My opinion is that McLaren would be in a much better position had he stayed. Perhaps not yet troubling the top two but possibly on par with Red Bull.
Well yes, I'd agree but nothing lasts forever. I've made the comparison before but it's like Manchester United and Fergie. Would they have had much better seasons if he had stayed? Of course, but at some point he's going to go and it was the same for McLaren. Replacing such leaders is far from easy as both teams have shown.