Discussion
tigerkoi said:
Fernley was recruited in November. By my reckoning, he had zilch experience in Indy, well at least for the last ten years when he was at Force India, and therefore the appointment was utterly baffling in the first place.
Sure, they’ve parted company, but for him to have had a sixth month engagement purely to go at Indy, well that tells you all you need to know about the perplexing and dumb way McLaren approached this.
Fernley - by all accounts, a good guy. But involved in something that was over his head experience wise.
A little of Bob’s CV that you may be unaware of.Sure, they’ve parted company, but for him to have had a sixth month engagement purely to go at Indy, well that tells you all you need to know about the perplexing and dumb way McLaren approached this.
Fernley - by all accounts, a good guy. But involved in something that was over his head experience wise.
From there I did the Ensign Indy car, which we debuted with Tom Sneva’s team. We redesigned it for ‘84 and I think we still hold the record today for the highest place finish for a rookie driver racing for a rookie team. Later Nigel (Mansell) took the rookie driver bit away from us of course from Jim but the combination of rookie driver and rookie team I think still exists. We continued on with Indy cars until 1989-90. At that point I stopped racing for a while and came back to the UK.
rdjohn said:
tigerkoi said:
Fernley was recruited in November. By my reckoning, he had zilch experience in Indy, well at least for the last ten years when he was at Force India, and therefore the appointment was utterly baffling in the first place.
Sure, they’ve parted company, but for him to have had a sixth month engagement purely to go at Indy, well that tells you all you need to know about the perplexing and dumb way McLaren approached this.
Fernley - by all accounts, a good guy. But involved in something that was over his head experience wise.
A little of Bob’s CV that you may be unaware of.Sure, they’ve parted company, but for him to have had a sixth month engagement purely to go at Indy, well that tells you all you need to know about the perplexing and dumb way McLaren approached this.
Fernley - by all accounts, a good guy. But involved in something that was over his head experience wise.
From there I did the Ensign Indy car, which we debuted with Tom Sneva’s team. We redesigned it for ‘84 and I think we still hold the record today for the highest place finish for a rookie driver racing for a rookie team. Later Nigel (Mansell) took the rookie driver bit away from us of course from Jim but the combination of rookie driver and rookie team I think still exists. We continued on with Indy cars until 1989-90. At that point I stopped racing for a while and came back to the UK.
I think that in the context of shifting a few extra cars and appeasing Alonso, their strategy was fair enough. Bob signed a 6-month contract and so never had long term intentions
But clearly Indy racing has moved on and so needs both sustained top-level team input and a decent driver. I was impressed by how they built up the qualifying process, focused on the drivers.
I think that Liberty want to bring a lot more Indylike razzmatazz to F1 and it has got to help build a younger market for the future.
But clearly Indy racing has moved on and so needs both sustained top-level team input and a decent driver. I was impressed by how they built up the qualifying process, focused on the drivers.
I think that Liberty want to bring a lot more Indylike razzmatazz to F1 and it has got to help build a younger market for the future.
For those who knock Alonso, have a read of this:
https://apnews.com/a8653967a9714ac7a9a3ba576f712ff...
You can (maybe) dislike the personality, but it's impossible to dislike the racing driver. When he puts the helmet on you're guaranteed he will give 100%, every time.
"Alonso wound up one of six drivers in the “Last Row Shootout” on Sunday and the panicked McLaren team begged and borrowed across the paddock for any assistance available. Alonso went out to practice Sunday with an entirely new setup, but in the frantic changeover a mistake was made in converting inches to the metric system the English team uses and the car scraped and sparked on his first lap. It had to be fixed and Alonso got in just five more laps before rain ended the session.
"When it came time for Alonso to make his final last-gasp qualifying attempt late Sunday afternoon, the Spaniard was given a car that Brown and de Ferran were concerned might not perform.
“Gil and I went to the motorhome and told Fernando: ‘We are going to try this, but this could go well or really wrong. Are you comfortable?’” Brown said. “And Fernando said, ‘Let’s go for it.’”
Alonso agreed that he never backed away from the challenge.
“We went out with an experiment that we did overnight. We changed everything on the car because we thought that maybe we need something from the mental side different to go into the race with some confidence,” Alonso said. “We went out not knowing what the car will do in Turn 1, but you’re still flat. So we tried.”
The new setup and assistance from other teams indeed got the car up to speed, but Alonso was knocked from the field by 23-year-old Kyle Kaiser of tiny Juncos Racing. McLaren discovered after the qualifying run that the car had the wrong gear ratio setup.
“We actually had a 229 (mph) car but we had 227.5 gearing, so we beat ourselves again while we almost made it,”
https://apnews.com/a8653967a9714ac7a9a3ba576f712ff...
You can (maybe) dislike the personality, but it's impossible to dislike the racing driver. When he puts the helmet on you're guaranteed he will give 100%, every time.
"Alonso wound up one of six drivers in the “Last Row Shootout” on Sunday and the panicked McLaren team begged and borrowed across the paddock for any assistance available. Alonso went out to practice Sunday with an entirely new setup, but in the frantic changeover a mistake was made in converting inches to the metric system the English team uses and the car scraped and sparked on his first lap. It had to be fixed and Alonso got in just five more laps before rain ended the session.
"When it came time for Alonso to make his final last-gasp qualifying attempt late Sunday afternoon, the Spaniard was given a car that Brown and de Ferran were concerned might not perform.
“Gil and I went to the motorhome and told Fernando: ‘We are going to try this, but this could go well or really wrong. Are you comfortable?’” Brown said. “And Fernando said, ‘Let’s go for it.’”
Alonso agreed that he never backed away from the challenge.
“We went out with an experiment that we did overnight. We changed everything on the car because we thought that maybe we need something from the mental side different to go into the race with some confidence,” Alonso said. “We went out not knowing what the car will do in Turn 1, but you’re still flat. So we tried.”
The new setup and assistance from other teams indeed got the car up to speed, but Alonso was knocked from the field by 23-year-old Kyle Kaiser of tiny Juncos Racing. McLaren discovered after the qualifying run that the car had the wrong gear ratio setup.
“We actually had a 229 (mph) car but we had 227.5 gearing, so we beat ourselves again while we almost made it,”
TobyTR said:
For those who knock Alonso, have a read of this:
https://apnews.com/a8653967a9714ac7a9a3ba576f712ff...
You can (maybe) dislike the personality, but it's impossible to dislike the racing driver. When he puts the helmet on you're guaranteed he will give 100%, every time.
"Alonso wound up one of six drivers in the “Last Row Shootout” on Sunday and the panicked McLaren team begged and borrowed across the paddock for any assistance available. Alonso went out to practice Sunday with an entirely new setup, but in the frantic changeover a mistake was made in converting inches to the metric system the English team uses and the car scraped and sparked on his first lap. It had to be fixed and Alonso got in just five more laps before rain ended the session.
"When it came time for Alonso to make his final last-gasp qualifying attempt late Sunday afternoon, the Spaniard was given a car that Brown and de Ferran were concerned might not perform.
“Gil and I went to the motorhome and told Fernando: ‘We are going to try this, but this could go well or really wrong. Are you comfortable?’” Brown said. “And Fernando said, ‘Let’s go for it.’”
Alonso agreed that he never backed away from the challenge.
“We went out with an experiment that we did overnight. We changed everything on the car because we thought that maybe we need something from the mental side different to go into the race with some confidence,” Alonso said. “We went out not knowing what the car will do in Turn 1, but you’re still flat. So we tried.”
The new setup and assistance from other teams indeed got the car up to speed, but Alonso was knocked from the field by 23-year-old Kyle Kaiser of tiny Juncos Racing. McLaren discovered after the qualifying run that the car had the wrong gear ratio setup.
“We actually had a 229 (mph) car but we had 227.5 gearing, so we beat ourselves again while we almost made it,”
What an absolute shttps://apnews.com/a8653967a9714ac7a9a3ba576f712ff...
You can (maybe) dislike the personality, but it's impossible to dislike the racing driver. When he puts the helmet on you're guaranteed he will give 100%, every time.
"Alonso wound up one of six drivers in the “Last Row Shootout” on Sunday and the panicked McLaren team begged and borrowed across the paddock for any assistance available. Alonso went out to practice Sunday with an entirely new setup, but in the frantic changeover a mistake was made in converting inches to the metric system the English team uses and the car scraped and sparked on his first lap. It had to be fixed and Alonso got in just five more laps before rain ended the session.
"When it came time for Alonso to make his final last-gasp qualifying attempt late Sunday afternoon, the Spaniard was given a car that Brown and de Ferran were concerned might not perform.
“Gil and I went to the motorhome and told Fernando: ‘We are going to try this, but this could go well or really wrong. Are you comfortable?’” Brown said. “And Fernando said, ‘Let’s go for it.’”
Alonso agreed that he never backed away from the challenge.
“We went out with an experiment that we did overnight. We changed everything on the car because we thought that maybe we need something from the mental side different to go into the race with some confidence,” Alonso said. “We went out not knowing what the car will do in Turn 1, but you’re still flat. So we tried.”
The new setup and assistance from other teams indeed got the car up to speed, but Alonso was knocked from the field by 23-year-old Kyle Kaiser of tiny Juncos Racing. McLaren discovered after the qualifying run that the car had the wrong gear ratio setup.
“We actually had a 229 (mph) car but we had 227.5 gearing, so we beat ourselves again while we almost made it,”
t show. He really needs to just drop Mclaren now and work on getting a drive with a decent team in Indy for next season. If you read the whole thing is pretty damning of what a mess they made of this.
Is this also the first time Zak Brown has released a press statement that has anything real in it rather than just media “blah blah blah” rubbish ?!
Alonso should be furious putting everything on the line just to almost be on the back row for this bunch of amateurs playing at Indy 500. It’s not a good place to be if the car is wrong.
If he was with a decent team he’d be at the front or certainly in the top 5.
Is this also the first time Zak Brown has released a press statement that has anything real in it rather than just media “blah blah blah” rubbish ?!
Alonso should be furious putting everything on the line just to almost be on the back row for this bunch of amateurs playing at Indy 500. It’s not a good place to be if the car is wrong.
If he was with a decent team he’d be at the front or certainly in the top 5.
davidd said:
'Brown said. “There will be repercussions for those who don’t deserve to work for a great team like McLaren.'
At that point he should have fired himself.
Obviously taking that statement in isolation, but that’s just not leadership.At that point he should have fired himself.
Brown just isn’t cut out for inspiring, leading and taking people over the line.
You can use pretty rum statements about who you value and who you don’t behind the scenes when working out who’s for the chop and who’s safe - harsh, but reality in most corporations - but you can’t go public on attitudes like this when hoping to galvanise a sporting team and your work is broadcast on TV every other week.
Brown is out of his depth, that’s the common sentiment. But at what time do the Bahrainis and Ojjeh attract opprobrium for installing the guy in the first place? They’re the real problem.
https://wtf1.com/post/the-wrong-shade-of-orange-an...
The things that went wrong were many and varied, but the wrong gearing in the car when they had the gearing to do the job in the garage. Hmmm.
The things that went wrong were many and varied, but the wrong gearing in the car when they had the gearing to do the job in the garage. Hmmm.
ajprice said:
https://wtf1.com/post/the-wrong-shade-of-orange-an...
The things that went wrong were many and varied, but the wrong gearing in the car when they had the gearing to do the job in the garage. Hmmm.
I read that, pretty shambolic. Although the whole episode has been pretty shambolic. The things that went wrong were many and varied, but the wrong gearing in the car when they had the gearing to do the job in the garage. Hmmm.
davidd said:
'Brown said. “There will be repercussions for those who don’t deserve to work for a great team like McLaren.'
At that point he should have fired himself.
Very true, I read the article as Brown saying "I would have done a much better job if I'd been hands-on". Well that *is* his job. At that point he should have fired himself.
I don't see any decent qualities from him, he just seems to epitomise bull***t to me.
Zak turning into David Brent:
I don’t want the world to think McLaren is a bunch of idiots because while we did have a few, we had some real stars
This was a very ill conceived project that was doomed to go downhill. Too easy to point the blame at leadership. Just how long did it take to bash Zak this year?
I don’t want the world to think McLaren is a bunch of idiots because while we did have a few, we had some real stars
This was a very ill conceived project that was doomed to go downhill. Too easy to point the blame at leadership. Just how long did it take to bash Zak this year?
entropy said:
Zak turning into David Brent:
I don’t want the world to think McLaren is a bunch of idiots because while we did have a few, we had some real stars
This was a very ill conceived project that was doomed to go downhill. Too easy to point the blame at leadership. Just how long did it take to bash Zak this year?
To be fair Brown seemingly avoided getting an online beating so far this year because he seemed to be adhering to a basic policy of staying out of the limelight. Last year, you couldn’t move for seeing him being interviewed at almost every race, grinning away and emblemising incompetence at every turn, and so this year it seemed he had got a handle on it and was taking some solid PR advice and keeping his and the team’s heads low. But after this Indy palaver the referencing of the third person...the illeism...is just peak buffoon:I don’t want the world to think McLaren is a bunch of idiots because while we did have a few, we had some real stars
This was a very ill conceived project that was doomed to go downhill. Too easy to point the blame at leadership. Just how long did it take to bash Zak this year?
“Zak Brown should not be digging around for steering wheels!”
Like I ask, who’s actually employing this guy and thinks he’s the right man for the job?
It’s one thing to be incompetent and everyone know it. But what does that make those who keep the incompetence front of house?
37chevy said:
I think it’s right to knock Alonso to be fair. I agree it’s 70-80% Mclarens Clusterfk, but he’s still the one that had to set the car up, and still the one who crashed their number 1 car, losing the team a days running.
The engineers set the car up. Feedback from the driver is just one of the inputs they'll use to determine that setup. It can take years to acquire the knowledge to do this for something as specialised as a speedway course. It was McLaren who had the spare car sat in a paint shop 30 miles away because it was slightly the wrong shade of orange, when it should have been at the track ready to run if needed. Other teams had crashes too, but were able to get their driver out in the spare car that same day, not two days later.k, but he’s still the one that had to set the car up, and still the one who crashed their number 1 car, losing the team a days running. Petrus1983 said:
Serious question - does anyone know why they were involved at all? Was it to help FA with the triple or to get US branding? Seems a very exhaustive programme whilst your main F1 opération is far from perfect.
Zak Brown has a serious boner for Alonso, and is easily distracted from their core business. Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff