Red Bull Honda for 2019
Discussion
I think this is a shrewd move by Red Bull.
Honda I feel are a little behind Renault at the moment, but not that far and improving at pace. Toro Rosso are not exactly languishing compared to when they ran Renault engines.
There is more scope for improvement from Honda too I think and I'd imagine more budget to make things happen now that they are partnered with Red Bull. They also have the Toro Rosso as a rolling test bed for the rest of this season.
Basically for Red bull who have championship ambitions there won't be much difference between finishing 3rd with Renault or 5th with Honda, both are unacceptable. However if Honda get their act together and work well on an integrated overall package, easier now with nearby location I see no reason for them not to come close to matching their current form and getting faster over year one and faster again in year two. If both parties are happy at that point they'll continue under the new rules with all the kinks worked out in their partnership, if not Red Bull go back to a customer supply from someone else.
Basically there is little to lose by doing this, its a gamble certainly, they can potentially lose a little but they could gain massively. So why not roll the dice?
Honda I feel are a little behind Renault at the moment, but not that far and improving at pace. Toro Rosso are not exactly languishing compared to when they ran Renault engines.
There is more scope for improvement from Honda too I think and I'd imagine more budget to make things happen now that they are partnered with Red Bull. They also have the Toro Rosso as a rolling test bed for the rest of this season.
Basically for Red bull who have championship ambitions there won't be much difference between finishing 3rd with Renault or 5th with Honda, both are unacceptable. However if Honda get their act together and work well on an integrated overall package, easier now with nearby location I see no reason for them not to come close to matching their current form and getting faster over year one and faster again in year two. If both parties are happy at that point they'll continue under the new rules with all the kinks worked out in their partnership, if not Red Bull go back to a customer supply from someone else.
Basically there is little to lose by doing this, its a gamble certainly, they can potentially lose a little but they could gain massively. So why not roll the dice?
Arklight said:
There are also rumours coming in thick and fast they Adrian Newey will be at Renault next year.
And some denials:http://www.f1i.com/news/307509-renault-resists-big...
I wonder if he is finally heading for Maranello now that his son is grown up (his daughter is older??). He always siad it was family that dissuaded him earlier in his career.
Vaud said:
Arklight said:
There are also rumours coming in thick and fast they Adrian Newey will be at Renault next year.
And some denials:http://www.f1i.com/news/307509-renault-resists-big...
I wonder if he is finally heading for Maranello now that his son is grown up (his daughter is older??). He always siad it was family that dissuaded him earlier in his career.
Composite Guru said:
I doubt it. If you read his autobiography you will find that he has a deep rooted dislike for that team. I don't think he would ever go there.
I have. He also admits that he came very close:http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11170423/ad...
If he dislikes them so much, why the sleepless nights?
Vaud said:
I have. He also admits that he came very close:
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11170423/ad...
If he dislikes them so much, why the sleepless nights?
The guy is a legend, to be in a position where big players make you offers most wouldn't refuse yet he did, that's integrity. Not many people have it these greedy days.http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11170423/ad...
If he dislikes them so much, why the sleepless nights?
Sam993 said:
The guy is a legend, to be in a position where big players make you offers most wouldn't refuse yet he did, that's integrity. Not many people have it these greedy days.
He says of Hamilton: ". . . he's known whether to battle and when to let a position go and not be taken out."
He's matured and a lot of the fun has been taken from the sport. Verstappen needs a bit of that good sense but to maintain the 'I'll have a go' attitude. I hope RB doesn't go too far the other way with him.
Sam993 said:
The guy is a legend, to be in a position where big players make you offers most wouldn't refuse yet he did, that's integrity. Not many people have it these greedy days.
I think his integrity was to his family, by his own admission his marriages failed in part due to his work commitments?Vaud said:
Sam993 said:
The guy is a legend, to be in a position where big players make you offers most wouldn't refuse yet he did, that's integrity. Not many people have it these greedy days.
I think his integrity was to his family, by his own admission his marriages failed in part due to his work commitments?Vaud said:
Composite Guru said:
I doubt it. If you read his autobiography you will find that he has a deep rooted dislike for that team. I don't think he would ever go there.
I have. He also admits that he came very close:http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11170423/ad...
If he dislikes them so much, why the sleepless nights?
At RB he has freedom to do what he wants. That was in his contract when he started. He also wanted access to do other projects too like designing Ben Ainslie's America's Cup yacht & the Valkyrie. Ferrari would of never let him do that.
Composite Guru said:
I think he really did want to go and work there but because its run like a committee and decisions are made around a table then that's what put him off.
At RB he has freedom to do what he wants. That was in his contract when he started. He also wanted access to do other projects too like designing Ben Ainslie's America's Cup yacht & the Valkyrie. Ferrari would of never let him do that.
True, but I still think that Ferrari has a certain attraction to any engineer, designer or driver.At RB he has freedom to do what he wants. That was in his contract when he started. He also wanted access to do other projects too like designing Ben Ainslie's America's Cup yacht & the Valkyrie. Ferrari would of never let him do that.
Vaud said:
True, but I still think that Ferrari has a certain attraction to any engineer, designer or driver.
doesn't mean mean you have to act on it.My understanding was he found the corporate atmosphere/politics stifling at Williams and McLaren. RB only tempted him back into the sport by offering him the moon on a stick in terms of creative freedom and control. Seeing him try that gig for the red team would astonish me.
hairyben said:
Vaud said:
True, but I still think that Ferrari has a certain attraction to any engineer, designer or driver.
doesn't mean mean you have to act on it.My understanding was he found the corporate atmosphere/politics stifling at Williams and McLaren. RB only tempted him back into the sport by offering him the moon on a stick in terms of creative freedom and control. Seeing him try that gig for the red team would astonish me.
Vaud said:
Sam993 said:
The guy is a legend, to be in a position where big players make you offers most wouldn't refuse yet he did, that's integrity. Not many people have it these greedy days.
I think his integrity was to his family, by his own admission his marriages failed in part due to his work commitments?Good to see Christian Horner being his usual graceless self over this. The press statements were suitably polished but the man can't help himself when he's live with a camera.
He must offer some decent cash up front as I can't believe anyone actually trusts him in any way. Certainly his personal morals aren't exactly strong.
Who do we think will be next to get the blame when things don't work out?
He must offer some decent cash up front as I can't believe anyone actually trusts him in any way. Certainly his personal morals aren't exactly strong.
Who do we think will be next to get the blame when things don't work out?
Sa Calobra said:
Really surprised by the news. Honda are still two years away I reckon.
Would DR sign with RB knowing it could all go backwards in the mid term?
Yes as it might still be his best option if a Mercedes or Ferrari seat are not available to him. Are any of the other 7 teams going to have a consistent race winning car that can challenge for a championship in those 2 years? I don't think so.Would DR sign with RB knowing it could all go backwards in the mid term?
cuprabob said:
Sa Calobra said:
Really surprised by the news. Honda are still two years away I reckon.
Would DR sign with RB knowing it could all go backwards in the mid term?
Yes as it might still be his best option if a Mercedes or Ferrari seat are not available to him. Are any of the other 7 teams going to have a consistent race winning car that can challenge for a championship in those 2 years? I don't think so.Would DR sign with RB knowing it could all go backwards in the mid term?
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