Lost Former Formula 1 Tracks

[Fire99]

With Paul Ricard appearing somewhere between an accident by a thousand Aquafresh toothpaste lorries, and a scene from The Magic Roundabout, I thought I'd dig up some old tracks from the past..

Here's 10..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeNzRnxSASg

[moffspeed]

Yep. I remember going to Ricard before it became a multi coloured car park . Used to be a fearsome place especially when the Mistral straight wasn’t chicaned.

But for the ultimate French GP circuit head up to the Auvergne and you will find Clermont Ferrand. Venue for the French GP in the late 60s/early 70s. Google it, it was awesome. Hearing Ferrari and Matra V12 s around the mountainside must have been something special....

[moffspeed]

...and a connection with today. Mercedes man Dr Helmut Marko was an F1 driver for BRM until the 1972 Clermont Ferrand race. A stone kicked up by another car shattered his goggles, blinding him in the left eye, his GP career was over ...

[coppice]

I went to Ricard in '89 - bloody awful place . Featureless and only memorable for the numbers of hookers on road junctions between Ricard and our gite. Dunno about the hookers but the circuit seems to have retained every bit of its old charm . Bring back Reims , Dijon or Clermont Ferrand s'il vous plait...

[Halmyre]

coppice said:

I went to Ricard in '89 - bloody awful place . Featureless and only memorable for the numbers of hookers on road junctions between Ricard and our gite. Dunno about the hookers but the circuit seems to have retained every bit of its old charm . Bring back Reims , Dijon or Clermont Ferrand s'il vous plait...

No, Dijon was a Mickey Mouse circuit in comparison with the other two.

We were in Reims a couple of years ago on holiday, sadly didn't have the time for a visit to the old circuit.

[Eric Mc]

If we widen the thread to "Lost Grand Prix" circuits it would be REALLY interesting -

Le Mans (both the pre World War 1 circuit and the 1967 "Bugatti" Circuit)
Pescara
Imola
Brands Hatch
Nordschleife
Original Hockenheim
Berne
Lisbon
Brussels
Old Spa
Zolder
Donington Park (pre World War 2 and later version)
Osterreichring
Zeltweg
Avus
Zandvoort
Turkey
India
Aida
Fuji
Phoenix
Detroit
Long Beach
Riverside
Watkins Glen
Las Vegas
Dallas
Montjuich
Jarama
Jerez

[Fire99]

Eric Mc said:

If we widen the thread to "Lost Grand Prix" circuits it would be REALLY interesting -

Le Mans (both the pre World War 1 circuit and the 1967 "Bugatti" Circuit)
Pescara
Imola
Brands Hatch
Nordschleife
Original Hockenheim
Berne
Lisbon
Brussels
Old Spa
Zolder
Donington Park (pre World War 2 and later version)
Osterreichring
Zeltweg
Avus
Zandvoort
Turkey
India
Aida
Fuji
Phoenix
Detroit
Long Beach
Riverside
Watkins Glen
Las Vegas
Dallas
Montjuich
Jarama
Jerez

I don't see why not, but I think we should include some pictures (or links to videos).. Good for those of us less familiar with some of the older tracks to have a nose at them...

[Joshsl]

I wonder what is stopping the F1 going back to the nordschleife, other than the Armco having to be changed. tey have the pits and things like that on the normal GP circuit so is it just money stopping them?

[FourWheelDrift]

This is a great resource for current and old lost circuits, different layouts over the years shown and in some cases photos of what it looks like now.

http://theracingline.net/racingcircuits/

[Halmyre]

Joshsl said:

I wonder what is stopping the F1 going back to the nordschleife, other than the Armco having to be changed. tey have the pits and things like that on the normal GP circuit so is it just money stopping them?

Hockenheim - race lap times about a minute and a half
Nurburgring - race lap times around 6 minutes, maybe?

So, less opportunities for spectators to see the sponsors' logoscars.

[Mark-C]

coppice said:

I went to Ricard in '89 - bloody awful place . Featureless and only memorable for the numbers of hookers on road junctions between Ricard and our gite. Dunno about the hookers but the circuit seems to have retained every bit of its old charm . Bring back Reims , Dijon or Clermont Ferrand s'il vous plait...

I used to go to Ricard for the Bol d'Or - it was a great circuit but in a really scruffy place. Going into Marseilles seemed proper scary back then as well

[thegreenhell]

moffspeed said:

But for the ultimate French GP circuit head up to the Auvergne and you will find Clermont Ferrand. Venue for the French GP in the late 60s/early 70s. Google it, it was awesome. Hearing Ferrari and Matra V12 s around the mountainside must have been something special....

I did a trackday at Charade circuit at Clermont Ferrand a few years ago. During the lunch break I went out and retraced the old circuit. It's amazing that they raced on those roads as recently as the 1970s. I made a composite video of the old and new circuits, which gives an almost-complete lap of the old GP circuit layout. https://vimeo.com/13159512

Another great circuit was Rouen-les-Essarts. The downhill run from the start line to the hairpin was supposed to be one of the scariest parts of any track anywhere.This famous picture of Fangio was shot on that section of track. Nowadays you can only drive 3/4 of the circuit, and at much reduced speed, as they built a motorway over part of the old track. Another unexciting video of mine showing the remaining part of the track: https://vimeo.com/13104483

[ralphrj]

MotorSport magazine used to have regular feature on former racing circuits and there were a couple of books published circa 10 years ago called 'Autodrome' that visited some former tracks and showed how they appear today.

[Fire99]

thegreenhell said:

That's a great picture.

[Fire99]

Circuit de Charade..

Can't beat a race track built around a volcano..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3KLqhXyo18

[covboy]

http://www.circuitsofthepast.nl/en-US/

[sgtBerbatov]

Joshsl said:

I wonder what is stopping the F1 going back to the nordschleife, other than the Armco having to be changed. tey have the pits and things like that on the normal GP circuit so is it just money stopping them?

I think it's the safety aspect. Nordschleife is bumpy as hell, and I don't think the F1 cars could handle it safely. Plus you have the TV aspect (which forced Hockenheim to be shortened) as well to consider.

[Vocal Minority]

Halmyre said:

Joshsl said:

I wonder what is stopping the F1 going back to the nordschleife, other than the Armco having to be changed. tey have the pits and things like that on the normal GP circuit so is it just money stopping them?

Hockenheim - race lap times about a minute and a half
Nurburgring - race lap times around 6 minutes, maybe?

So, less opportunities for spectators to see the sponsors' logoscars.

I should imagine the importance of sponsors logo's being visible at the track is considered vanishingly small compared to the TV reach.

I imagine genuine safety concerns are the principal reason - it's rather more than changing the armco.

[FourWheelDrift]

sgtBerbatov said:

Joshsl said:

I wonder what is stopping the F1 going back to the nordschleife, other than the Armco having to be changed. tey have the pits and things like that on the normal GP circuit so is it just money stopping them?

I think it's the safety aspect. Nordschleife is bumpy as hell, and I don't think the F1 cars could handle it safely. Plus you have the TV aspect (which forced Hockenheim to be shortened) as well to consider.

It would also be insanely boring. Just as it always was, follow my leader through miles of narrow twisty track. The TCR were there recently 3 lap race due to the length so 13 miles of boring racing per lap until they got onto the main straight, then more action on the modern section but only 3 times a race.

[Fire99]

FourWheelDrift said:

It would also be insanely boring. Just as it always was, follow my leader through miles of narrow twisty track. The TCR were there recently 3 lap race due to the length so 13 miles of boring racing per lap until they got onto the main straight, then more action on the modern section but only 3 times a race.

I don't want to turn this into another 'what's wrong with F1' thread but I'd in part disagree on this point. With F1 the cars performance far outweigh the limits of the track so there would be a significant psychological factor that overtaking would be possible due to bravery of some as opposed to others and cars driving way beyond their limits for much of the lap.

Regarding boring, I can only compare with the IOM TT. There isn't much overtaking on that (notably because it's a time trial) but there is great excitement seeing a supremely fast bike along a very narrow (and potentially punishing) track.
The excitement isn't all about overtaking, it can be a car wrestling with a challenging and 'good looking' track.