The Official 2018 German Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**
Discussion
C70R said:
Derek Smith said:
I feel sorry for the crowd losing a home win that seemed to be guaranteed. I don't feel sorry for Vettel, well not that much anyway. His mistake. I know he was being pushed but then that's racing.
As you say; fun.
Agreed. I can only imagine how many young Vettel fans went home disappointed last night.As you say; fun.
Kipling had the right attitude: if you can meet with triumph and disaster . . . and all that. It's just a race. It doesn't really matter.
The important point is that it was an exciting race, one with action up front, and in the midfield. We've been spoiled this season so far with a high proportion of cracking races. The leadership has bounced back and forth, and there's been three different makes of cars with four different drivers on the top step.
Ferrari have the fastest car at seemingly most circuits, RB at others, and Merc a whisker behind at all of them. If it carries on like this it will be a season that will be remembered for years, and for all the right reasons. Driver quality seems to be the difference.
Ricciardo needs some reliability though. If they get their act together the balance could be just right. Hungary next, but given the season so far, it might confound its critics (of which I'm one).
More please.
TheLimla said:
HustleRussell said:
Mr Tidy said:
Derek Smith said:
I feel sorry for the crowd losing a home win that seemed to be guaranteed. I don't feel sorry for Vettel, well not that much anyway. His mistake. I know he was being pushed but then that's racing.
As you say; fun.
I really enjoyed watching the highlights today - looked like another LH masterclass! As you say; fun.
I don't feel too sorry for the crowd losing a home win - it's just payback for Seb winning at Silverstone!
That said you have to feel just a little bit of schadenfreude after Vettel's comment over the radio at Silverstone, in Italian, "We beat them on their own territory".
HustleRussell said:
I wanted the Seb win yesterday because I felt the championship needed it.
That said you have to feel just a little bit of schadenfreude after Vettel's comment over the radio at Silverstone, in Italian, "We beat them on their own territory".
He seemed to have forgotten his Italian when he was in the tyre wall!That said you have to feel just a little bit of schadenfreude after Vettel's comment over the radio at Silverstone, in Italian, "We beat them on their own territory".
HustleRussell said:
......
Go a tiny bit too far with the brake balance or fail to compensate for it on braking and you'll lock the rear which is exactly what happened to Vettel. He braked too late and / or had too much rear bias.
I can't see how slightly reduced front downforce could've contributed.
Ironically, if Ferrari hadn't switched the positions and put Seb in front of Kimi, it would have been Kimi finding the limits of the grip once the rain started not Seb. Seb would have been on the top step rather than the gravel IMHO.Go a tiny bit too far with the brake balance or fail to compensate for it on braking and you'll lock the rear which is exactly what happened to Vettel. He braked too late and / or had too much rear bias.
I can't see how slightly reduced front downforce could've contributed.
Overall a very enjoyable race to watch with Hamilton combining luck and skill to take all the points. Bottas accepting his position in the team with good grace and Red Bull showing that they are not quite there when it comes to pit-lane strategy calls.
jm doc said:
Virtually every driver went over that kerb at some point in the same way as Lewis did.
Ferrari are not stupid. They were clearly working to a strategy, whatever that was, and it was one which they got wrong on this occasion.
You're a bit of a broken record really, aren't you?
Finally, the safety car actually jeopardised Hamilton's chances. Up to that point he had been lapping massively faster than anyone else (at one point 5 secs in one lap) and would have comfortably caught and passed all the other cars on worn softs whilst he was on fresh ultras. The safety car may have allowed him to get track position (and only on his own decision to ignore the instruction to pit), but that allowed Bottas and Kimi to change to fresh rubber and attack him at the restart.
Lewis showed today why he can justifiably be called one of the all-time greats whilst Vettel showed today why he will never be.
An absolute masterclass.
They're both all time greats. They are head and shoulders above any other driver of the last 10-12 years.Ferrari are not stupid. They were clearly working to a strategy, whatever that was, and it was one which they got wrong on this occasion.
You're a bit of a broken record really, aren't you?
Finally, the safety car actually jeopardised Hamilton's chances. Up to that point he had been lapping massively faster than anyone else (at one point 5 secs in one lap) and would have comfortably caught and passed all the other cars on worn softs whilst he was on fresh ultras. The safety car may have allowed him to get track position (and only on his own decision to ignore the instruction to pit), but that allowed Bottas and Kimi to change to fresh rubber and attack him at the restart.
Lewis showed today why he can justifiably be called one of the all-time greats whilst Vettel showed today why he will never be.
An absolute masterclass.
The cars are so evenly matched, that this season may well go some way to deciding which of them is slightly better than the other. I just hope the cars remain evenly matched.
oyster said:
jm doc said:
Virtually every driver went over that kerb at some point in the same way as Lewis did.
Ferrari are not stupid. They were clearly working to a strategy, whatever that was, and it was one which they got wrong on this occasion.
You're a bit of a broken record really, aren't you?
Finally, the safety car actually jeopardised Hamilton's chances. Up to that point he had been lapping massively faster than anyone else (at one point 5 secs in one lap) and would have comfortably caught and passed all the other cars on worn softs whilst he was on fresh ultras. The safety car may have allowed him to get track position (and only on his own decision to ignore the instruction to pit), but that allowed Bottas and Kimi to change to fresh rubber and attack him at the restart.
Lewis showed today why he can justifiably be called one of the all-time greats whilst Vettel showed today why he will never be.
An absolute masterclass.
They're both all time greats. They are head and shoulders above any other driver of the last 10-12 years.Ferrari are not stupid. They were clearly working to a strategy, whatever that was, and it was one which they got wrong on this occasion.
You're a bit of a broken record really, aren't you?
Finally, the safety car actually jeopardised Hamilton's chances. Up to that point he had been lapping massively faster than anyone else (at one point 5 secs in one lap) and would have comfortably caught and passed all the other cars on worn softs whilst he was on fresh ultras. The safety car may have allowed him to get track position (and only on his own decision to ignore the instruction to pit), but that allowed Bottas and Kimi to change to fresh rubber and attack him at the restart.
Lewis showed today why he can justifiably be called one of the all-time greats whilst Vettel showed today why he will never be.
An absolute masterclass.
The cars are so evenly matched, that this season may well go some way to deciding which of them is slightly better than the other. I just hope the cars remain evenly matched.
Dr Z said:
ajprice said:
Lewis winning from 14th is the lowest grid position to a win since Alonso winning from 15th in Singapore in 2008. That race win was ever so slightly engineered though 
, so what's the next lowest before that?
Michael Schumacher - Spa - 1995 - From 16th on the grid , so what's the next lowest before that?Kimi Raikkonen - Suzuka - 2005 - 17th
Rubens Barrichello - Hockenheim - 2000 - 18th
Also, didn't Lewis fall to last in Monaco in 2008 on the first lap and went on to win?
Dr Z said:
ajprice said:
Lewis winning from 14th is the lowest grid position to a win since Alonso winning from 15th in Singapore in 2008. That race win was ever so slightly engineered though , so what's the next lowest before that?
Michael Schumacher - Spa - 1995 - From 16th on the grid , so what's the next lowest before that?Kimi Raikkonen - Suzuka - 2005 - 17th
Rubens Barrichello - Hockenheim - 2000 - 18th
Lauda finished 2nd in the other McLaren from 23rd!
Evangelion said:
Gary C said:
swisstoni said:
HustleRussell said:
Evangelion said:
Rubbish. He didn't win. It happened to him.
The things people say who have no idea about racing or competition.
ks. I've been watching F1 since before most of you lot were born and let me tell you, it was better than today's apology for an F1 can even dream of being.Hamilton would have had to be a total idiot not to win today.
ks to you too.I've been watching a long time too, yes I saw some good races in the 70's and 80's but your putting on the rose tinted if you think it was some 'golden era'."It happens to him", what s
te.Luck will always play a part, but the best drivers put themselves in a position to make the most of that luck. Good driving, good tyre management and good calls with luck means he is in the lead.
It Max I want to see in a competitive car though. Been a while since we have had three exciting drivers.
Gary C said:
bks to you too.I've been watching a long time too, yes I saw some good races in the 70's and 80's but your putting on the rose tinted if you think it was some 'golden era'.
"It happens to him", what ste.
Luck will always play a part, but the best drivers put themselves in a position to make the most of that luck. Good driving, good tyre management and good calls with luck means he is in the lead.
Agreed. ks to you too.I've been watching a long time too, yes I saw some good races in the 70's and 80's but your putting on the rose tinted if you think it was some 'golden era'."It happens to him", what s
te.Luck will always play a part, but the best drivers put themselves in a position to make the most of that luck. Good driving, good tyre management and good calls with luck means he is in the lead.
These stick out in my mind:
1987 British GP - before the infamous pass on Piquet Mansell had a tyre problem and made an unscheduled pit stop.
1992 Monaco GP - again Mansell had a tyre problem and made an unscheduled pit stop and gifted the lead and win to Senna.
1992 Belgian GP - Schumi spun mid-race then caught up with Brundle and noticed the poor condition of his team-mate's tyres, pitted and went on to win the race.
entropy said:
1987 British GP - before the infamous pass on Piquet Mansell had a tyre problem and made an unscheduled pit stop.
I don't think that's quite right. Mansell was brought in for tyres as planned. They inspected his tyres and felt that they would have lasted the whole race. So they did not call in Piquet in for a new set. They were right, of course. Piquet's tyres lasted the whole race. He put in three of his fastest laps in the last six or seven. However, Mansell's were half a race newer and, as more than half a tank had been used, didn't have so much taken out of them.
It was a poor call from Williams as they assumed, as did the man himself, that Piquet was not at risk from his team mate. We now know better.
A two car race that was thrilling.
StevieBee said:
Dr Z said:
ajprice said:
Lewis winning from 14th is the lowest grid position to a win since Alonso winning from 15th in Singapore in 2008. That race win was ever so slightly engineered though , so what's the next lowest before that?
Michael Schumacher - Spa - 1995 - From 16th on the grid , so what's the next lowest before that?Kimi Raikkonen - Suzuka - 2005 - 17th
Rubens Barrichello - Hockenheim - 2000 - 18th
Also, didn't Lewis fall to last in Monaco in 2008 on the first lap and went on to win?
Hamilton fell to 5th position I believe.
Mark-C said:
John Watson made it from 22nd in the US GP West in 1983 ... impossible these days given the size of grids.
Lauda finished 2nd in the other McLaren from 23rd!
Indeed, this is the furthest anyone has started to go on to win. Other wins from back (Watson has one more):Lauda finished 2nd in the other McLaren from 23rd!
Jackie Stewart - Kyalami - 1973 - 16th
John Watson - Detroit - 1982 - 17th
HustleRussell said:
When it rains everybody shuffles their brake bias backwards as there isn't enough grip on the front tyres to generate anywhere near the longitudinal 'G'-force and therefore weight transfer which normally multiplies the amount of braking the front axle can do without locking (and reduces that of the rear axle).
Go a tiny bit too far with the brake balance or fail to compensate for it on braking and you'll lock the rear which is exactly what happened to Vettel. He braked too late and / or had too much rear bias.
I can't see how slightly reduced front downforce could've contributed.
Some oil from the Williams had also just been deposited on that corner apparently.Go a tiny bit too far with the brake balance or fail to compensate for it on braking and you'll lock the rear which is exactly what happened to Vettel. He braked too late and / or had too much rear bias.
I can't see how slightly reduced front downforce could've contributed.
Bad timing / mistake for Vettel but an interesting race. Shame the RB was slow
Dr Z said:
This sounds like a rather well known borked record. It's obvious.
Mark Hughes agrees with my assessment:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/reports/f1/2018...
Btw, I was poking fun @ LDN in the post you quoted as he did at me. Lots of sarcasm detectors have failed there.
That doesn't make sense in that Vettel could have pitted at the same time as Hamilton and been ahead of him due to starting ahead, and then wouldn't have been using the worn tyres in the rain. So a 1 or 2 stop strategy prior to Hamilton's stop didn't matter. It's just Ferrari and Vettel got it wrong like almost everyone else waiting for the rain to start properly, which it didn't.Mark Hughes agrees with my assessment:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/reports/f1/2018...
Btw, I was poking fun @ LDN in the post you quoted as he did at me. Lots of sarcasm detectors have failed there.
The Surveyor said:
sparta6 said:
Some oil from the Williams had also just been deposited on that corner apparently.
....
Why did nobody else go off there if there was oil on the track, it almost looked like he just drove off the track without locking or understeer.....
The 20 drivers don't all drive in the same way. Some are pushing more than others. The cars are set up differently.
Seb knew Hamilton was making hay and probably felt a pressure to respond. He may have had his diff set up to lock too much on deceleration, or too much harvesting for the conditions, or too much rear brake... or it was a simple error which would've been nothing if he'd braked a meter earlier.
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