Goodbye Fernando...

Goodbye Fernando...

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Discussion

Hamsterdam

104 posts

75 months

Thursday 20th September 2018
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ELUSIVEJIM said:
Exactly.

But Ferrari has just moved the goal posts for 2019.

Could just help Hamilton that little bit more.

I am sure many would agree that it would have been special to have Alonso in a car that would have given him a fighting chance against the Mercedes and Ferrari drivers.

Whatever Alonso's past it would have been a great watch.



Edited by ELUSIVEJIM on Thursday 20th September 15:25
I think Vettel has cost himself and Ferrari the titles this year.

Think next year will be even worse for him when he’s under even more pressure.

ELUSIVEJIM

5,577 posts

92 months

Thursday 20th September 2018
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Hamsterdam said:
I think Vettel has cost himself and Ferrari the titles this year.

Think next year will be even worse for him when he’s under even more pressure.
Vettel has chocked twice now. 2017 and 2018.

I can't see Hamilton making many mistakes in the run in.

Yes, the Mercedes could break down but it would need to happen twice to give Vettel a chance.

But if anyone is going to make a mistake I would put my money on Vettel.

TobyTR

420 posts

87 months

Friday 21st September 2018
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This thread is turning comical with Rosberg being mentioned on par to Alonso because he beat a past-it 42-year-old Schumacher who came back after a few years out of F1. No way.

There are clearly a few Alonso haters on here - who are unsurprisingly Team Lewis and have it in for the Spaniard - and that's clouding their vision to look at Alonso's ability objectively as an F1 driver. Frankly their point is moot. If every F1 pundit, established journalist, driver on the grid and ex-F1 drivers already regard Alonso as 'Great' (which he is) tough. I know it hurts the Alonso haters to admit this, but they need to look at the facts and suck it up. It stinks of British bias and I'm British (my favourite drivers are Mansell, Hamilton and Button), but I appreciate excellence when I see it.

Again, point out one season in his career where Alonso did not deliver results...

As Mark Hughes rightly mentioned in his article on the man, numbers alone don't tell the full story of a driver's legacy - and he too rates Alonso as an F1 Legend. Much like in boxing, Gennady Golovkin and Manny Pacquiao have 'stained records' and their numbers don't tell the true picture of how great they are.

To quote Martin Brundle when asked who the best driver on the grid is: "Fernando Alonso."

To quote Jenson Button when asked who his toughest teammate was: "Fernando Alonso."

But according to a select few forum posters he's not a 'Great'. Haters will always hate. biggrin


37chevy

2,475 posts

97 months

Friday 21st September 2018
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For the record.

It’s not that I don’t think Alonso isn’t great, he’s immensely talented, but I can’t see how he can be considered amongst the greats when we haven’t seen his talents shine through for several years.

He’s a great driver no doubt, but would I class him along with Senna, Schumacher, Prost, fangio? ....how can I?

..through his own actions and choices, we haven’t been able to see his talent, he has been mired in a few controversies and been prone to quite a few hissy fits...see mclaren 2007, pretty much the whole Honda era with the engine complaints etc.

...I think Alonsos legacy will be one of a wasted talent, he should have beaten Schumacher records, but hasn’t through bad choices. I for one, can’t wait for him to get into Indycar so we can see that talent shine through again and get that legacy back on track

Exige77

3,428 posts

132 months

Friday 21st September 2018
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37chevy said:
For the record.

It’s not that I don’t think Alonso isn’t great, he’s immensely talented, but I can’t see how he can be considered amongst the greats when we haven’t seen his talents shine through for several years.

He’s a great driver no doubt, but would I class him along with Senna, Schumacher, Prost, fangio? ....how can I?

..through his own actions and choices, we haven’t been able to see his talent, he has been mired in a few controversies and been prone to quite a few hissy fits...see mclaren 2007, pretty much the whole Honda era with the engine complaints etc.

...I think Alonsos legacy will be one of a wasted talent, he should have beaten Schumacher records, but hasn’t through bad choices. I for one, can’t wait for him to get into Indycar so we can see that talent shine through again and get that legacy back on track
^^^^^What he so eloquently said.

I don’t think many people “hate” Alonso, but F1 enthusiasts can see all Alonso’s baggage has got in the way of his potential. We will never know what he could have achieved.

Too much Wuda, Cuda, Shuda when discussions turn to Alonso.


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The Surveyor

6,547 posts

178 months

Friday 21st September 2018
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Exige77 said:
37chevy said:
For the record.

It’s not that I don’t think Alonso isn’t great, he’s immensely talented, but I can’t see how he can be considered amongst the greats when we haven’t seen his talents shine through for several years.

He’s a great driver no doubt, but would I class him along with Senna, Schumacher, Prost, fangio? ....how can I?

..through his own actions and choices, we haven’t been able to see his talent, he has been mired in a few controversies and been prone to quite a few hissy fits...see mclaren 2007, pretty much the whole Honda era with the engine complaints etc.

...I think Alonsos legacy will be one of a wasted talent, he should have beaten Schumacher records, but hasn’t through bad choices. I for one, can’t wait for him to get into Indycar so we can see that talent shine through again and get that legacy back on track
^^^^^What he so eloquently said.

I don’t think many people “hate” Alonso, but F1 enthusiasts can see all Alonso’s baggage has got in the way of his potential. We will never know what he could have achieved.

Too much Wuda, Cuda, Shuda when discussions turn to Alonso.
I would also agree with this almost fully.

For me, and the one thing Alonso has to his credit is his drive to be a complete all-rounder. He won't ever be seen as a great in F1 up on the top-step with Hamilton, Schumacher, Clark etc, but it looks like he's determined to keep driving after F1 and will go one to add Daytona to his Le Mans win and F1 titles, and then keep adding to them.

I'm a huge Hamilton fan, but we all know he will simply hang-up his helmet when he leaves F1, Alonso looks determined to add to his legacy winning other championships as a more rounded driver.

DanielSan

13,933 posts

108 months

Friday 21st September 2018
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37chevy said:
For the record.

It’s not that I don’t think Alonso isn’t great, he’s immensely talented, but I can’t see how he can be considered amongst the greats when we haven’t seen his talents shine through for several years.

He’s a great driver no doubt, but would I class him along with Senna, Schumacher, Prost, fangio? ....how can I?

..through his own actions and choices, we haven’t been able to see his talent, he has been mired in a few controversies and been prone to quite a few hissy fits...see mclaren 2007, pretty much the whole Honda era with the engine complaints etc.

...I think Alonsos legacy will be one of a wasted talent, he should have beaten Schumacher records, but hasn’t through bad choices. I for one, can’t wait for him to get into Indycar so we can see that talent shine through again and get that legacy back on track
I’m not sure you can say we haven’t seen Alonso’s talent for a few years, unless you’re just watching a Mercedes or Ferrari at the front ad seeing nothing happen behind.

I’d argue we’ve seen more of how good Alonso really is this last couple of years than when he was in the Renault or Ferrari. Last weekend alone was a fine example of his race craft. Sadly 7th place is about the highest he’s ever going to get unless one of the 3 teams in front has a reliability issue or crash. I know the Mclaren is an utter pile of a car but he’s always getting the most out of it, look at the gap to his team mate.l every weekend. And the 13-0 quali results, the huge difference in points scored between the 2 teams.

If Alonso was still in that Ferrari would people be hoping/expecting LeClerc to do so well against him as they’re hoping/praying/expecting him to do against Vettelv I doubt it. For a driver at his age now to still be as quick as he is says a lot about his motivation even in a car that’s crap. If he was in that Ferrari this year it’s not a daft thing to say that he could easily be 40 points to the good in front of Hamilton rather than behind.

37chevy

2,475 posts

97 months

Friday 21st September 2018
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The Surveyor said:
I would also agree with this almost fully.

For me, and the one thing Alonso has to his credit is his drive to be a complete all-rounder. He won't ever be seen as a great in F1 up on the top-step with Hamilton, Schumacher, Clark etc, but it looks like he's determined to keep driving after F1 and will go one to add Daytona to his Le Mans win and F1 titles, and then keep adding to them.

I'm a huge Hamilton fan, but we all know he will simply hang-up his helmet when he leaves F1, Alonso looks determined to add to his legacy winning other championships as a more rounded driver.
Indeed

I see Alonso as more of a Mario Andretti type of driver. That is, of course if his self hype conned through and he can go on to win in other Formula

ELUSIVEJIM

5,577 posts

92 months

Friday 21st September 2018
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DanielSan said:
I’m not sure you can say we haven’t seen Alonso’s talent for a few years, unless you’re just watching a Mercedes or Ferrari at the front ad seeing nothing happen behind.

I’d argue we’ve seen more of how good Alonso really is this last couple of years than when he was in the Renault or Ferrari. Last weekend alone was a fine example of his race craft. Sadly 7th place is about the highest he’s ever going to get unless one of the 3 teams in front has a reliability issue or crash. I know the Mclaren is an utter pile of a car but he’s always getting the most out of it, look at the gap to his team mate.l every weekend. And the 13-0 quali results, the huge difference in points scored between the 2 teams.

If Alonso was still in that Ferrari would people be hoping/expecting LeClerc to do so well against him as they’re hoping/praying/expecting him to do against Vettelv I doubt it. For a driver at his age now to still be as quick as he is says a lot about his motivation even in a car that’s crap. If he was in that Ferrari this year it’s not a daft thing to say that he could easily be 40 points to the good in front of Hamilton rather than behind.
Exactly.

Perhaps 40 points ahead of Hamilton is a bit too much but he would have taken the chances Vettel didn't. But I do feel he would be leading the Championship.

I think Baku just shows you how much drive Alonso has.

The car should have been out of the race but he had the skill and desire to get the thing back to the pits.

Amazing as he then scored 7th in the points.

[url]|https://thumbsnap.com/JzZvDMG9[

ELUSIVEJIM

5,577 posts

92 months

Friday 21st September 2018
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Alonso's cloning activities seem to be coming along nicely. getmecoat


HardtopManual

1,125 posts

107 months

Friday 21st September 2018
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Exige77 said:
I don’t think many people “hate” Alonso, but F1 enthusiasts can see all Alonso’s baggage has got in the way of his potential. We will never know what he could have achieved.
I think that's part of Alonso's appeal. He has a dark side and he's not particularly bothered about hiding it. Ever watched a film where the good guys are so toe-curlingly perfect and pious that you root for the baddies? And he's the housewives' favourite.

Stan the Bat

4,754 posts

153 months

Friday 21st September 2018
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I am not a housewife, but he is one of my favourites. tongue out

ELUSIVEJIM

5,577 posts

92 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
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You have to laugh after the Crashgate scandal when Grosjean lost it at the exact same corner as Piquet did a year earlier.

Not an easy clip to find.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpIZ34Z1W_s

carinaman

13,392 posts

113 months

Tuesday 25th September 2018
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Joe Saward on the Missed Apex Podcast said:
Alonso isn't the second Messiah
12 minutes in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqdWRTBDVoI


37chevy

2,475 posts

97 months

Tuesday 25th September 2018
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carinaman said:
Great podcast all the way through and spot on in this bit

TobyTR

420 posts

87 months

Wednesday 26th September 2018
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carinaman said:
Joe Saward on the Missed Apex Podcast said:
Alonso isn't the second Messiah
12 minutes in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqdWRTBDVoI
"Alonso hasn't been the same driver since 2007" - really? Alonso's been even better the last 10 years. What a moron. "Took him to the cleaners in 2007" - no, they finished on equal points...

Funny how he didn't compare Alonso's performances to Hamilton throughout 2010-2013... Joe Saward is renowned in the industry for his bias. I'd take Brundle's opinion and many others in the industry over Saward.

As someone else mentioned above, if you've only been watching the Mercs & Ferraris this year then you won't notice what Alonso has been achieving. To be best-of-the-rest (Merc, Ferrari, Red Bull) at times when the Haas, Force India, Renault and at times Sauber are better than the McLaren says it all.

Not sure how anyone can say he hasn't achieved much in the last several years.


Edited by TobyTR on Wednesday 26th September 00:04

carinaman

13,392 posts

113 months

Wednesday 26th September 2018
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I think on an Autosport podcast they did say that Alonso did have to do some driving at Le Mans and that his driving was on it.

Grahamdub

2,110 posts

84 months

Wednesday 26th September 2018
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carinaman said:
I think on an Autosport podcast they did say that Alonso did have to do some driving at Le Mans and that his driving was on it.
He did well at Le Mans. It was pretty much a two horse race (both horses being Toyotas), but the stints he did were impressive. Nice that he let Nakajima take the flag too and didn't try and pull rank.

Teddy Lop

1,142 posts

8 months

Wednesday 26th September 2018
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Grahamdub said:
carinaman said:
I think on an Autosport podcast they did say that Alonso did have to do some driving at Le Mans and that his driving was on it.
He did well at Le Mans. It was pretty much a two horse race (both horses being Toyotas), but the stints he did were impressive. Nice that he let Nakajima take the flag too and didn't try and pull rank.
given a red carpet flowed all the way into the top seat for him, perhaps the Japanese manufacturer didn't give him the choice...

ELUSIVEJIM

5,577 posts

92 months

Wednesday 26th September 2018
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TobyTR said:
"Alonso hasn't been the same driver since 2007" - really? Alonso's been even better the last 10 years. What a moron. "Took him to the cleaners in 2007" - no, they finished on equal points...

Funny how he didn't compare Alonso's performances to Hamilton throughout 2010-2013... Joe Saward is renowned in the industry for his bias. I'd take Brundle's opinion and many others in the industry over Saward.

As someone else mentioned above, if you've only been watching the Mercs & Ferraris this year then you won't notice what Alonso has been achieving. To be best-of-the-rest (Merc, Ferrari, Red Bull) at times when the Haas, Force India, Renault and at times Sauber are better than the McLaren says it all.

Not sure how anyone can say he hasn't achieved much in the last several years.


Edited by TobyTR on Wednesday 26th September 00:04
Totally agree.

Joe Saward comments are laughable.

What a complete joke.