Goodbye Fernando...
Discussion
I was quite sad reading it was the end of his F1 career - not surprised by the announcement, but just sad. He has little hope of finding a championship winning car at this point, and he's given his best years to causes that didn't deserve his talent; he wouldn't need the quickest car on the grid to win, but at least one that had a sniff at being competitive, at which point he'd give it his all.
At Ferrari he produced some stunning displays of commitment and ability (Valencia 2012 being one), but IMO his best days as a racer have been some of the difficult days at this stint at McLaren, when he's had a dog of a car under him, that he's pulled a result out of. That showed a level of determination rarely seen, as it's all too easy to throw in the towel when you go to the grid on Sunday knowing you're fighting against the tide.
Qualifying was never his strong point, nor was wet weather driving - but he's old school, grabs any car he's given by the scruff and more often than not (as sadly witnessed) carries it to the finish line when able to. I like that he wants to dabble in other formulas and disciplines - he clearly has a love of racing, and competition. If he could win the triple crown, it would be a fitting way to sign off his career. He was by no means the greatest, but he was good at most things and great at others. With a better car under him (and better career choices of his own making), he surely would have achieved more in F1.
Unfortunately, for many he'll only be remembered for the first stint at McLaren, Hungary in 2007, then crashgate, and finally his radio rants in recent seasons. Increasingly he's become a Victor Meldrew figure on the grid - and I can understand why, he's expected to perform miracles each weekend and prove his ability, in a car that's just not good enough.
I hope Danny Ric's career doesn't follow suit - too good a talent to be in an average car.
At Ferrari he produced some stunning displays of commitment and ability (Valencia 2012 being one), but IMO his best days as a racer have been some of the difficult days at this stint at McLaren, when he's had a dog of a car under him, that he's pulled a result out of. That showed a level of determination rarely seen, as it's all too easy to throw in the towel when you go to the grid on Sunday knowing you're fighting against the tide.
Qualifying was never his strong point, nor was wet weather driving - but he's old school, grabs any car he's given by the scruff and more often than not (as sadly witnessed) carries it to the finish line when able to. I like that he wants to dabble in other formulas and disciplines - he clearly has a love of racing, and competition. If he could win the triple crown, it would be a fitting way to sign off his career. He was by no means the greatest, but he was good at most things and great at others. With a better car under him (and better career choices of his own making), he surely would have achieved more in F1.
Unfortunately, for many he'll only be remembered for the first stint at McLaren, Hungary in 2007, then crashgate, and finally his radio rants in recent seasons. Increasingly he's become a Victor Meldrew figure on the grid - and I can understand why, he's expected to perform miracles each weekend and prove his ability, in a car that's just not good enough.
I hope Danny Ric's career doesn't follow suit - too good a talent to be in an average car.
Sa Calobra said:
Let's see what happens to McLaren next year without him.
On DR I thought he was mad to leave however maybe he knows something that we don't about next year's Renault engines.
I only mentioned the parallels between the two, as Danny's finding himself in a situation where a move to another team is more looking at where they'll [hopefully] be in a few years, rather than immediately, and if it doesn't pan out, the seats in the top cars are all on lock down for another 2-3 years. It's a game that Alonso played quite poorly, but on the flip side, when doors aren't open to you where you want to be, you go where you can and try and make the best of it.On DR I thought he was mad to leave however maybe he knows something that we don't about next year's Renault engines.
Sa Calobra said:
Let's see what happens to McLaren next year without him.
On DR I thought he was mad to leave however maybe he knows something that we don't about next year's Renault engines.
Knowing Alonso’s luck; they will be the class of the field; and McLaren will become a dominant force. On DR I thought he was mad to leave however maybe he knows something that we don't about next year's Renault engines.
Sa Calobra said:
Lewis went to a team that everyone said he was mad to join. Look at how that turned out?
There was a pretty obvious thought pattern at the time - I think most people saw why he did it. I think the 'everyone thought he was mad' - should read 'everyone who didn't think past the next race thought he was mad'.
LDN said:
. An architect of his own downfall indeed; a career severely compromised by his own ego / arrogance / naivety... he was poison after the 07 McLaren fiasco. .
^ this. Plus 08 Singapore. 'Teflonso' I always remember Brundle's quip about him....absolutely brilliant driver but it tells it's own story that none of the top teams would even consider him.isaldiri said:
^ this. Plus 08 Singapore. 'Teflonso' I always remember Brundle's quip about him....absolutely brilliant driver but it tells it's own story that none of the top teams would even consider him.
They may have considered him. But look at the top 3 possible teams:1) Mercedes. Categorically stated they would not have another Hamilton/Rosberg type of dynamic. I had lunch with a senior bod at Merc and he couldn't have been clearer - it was very damaging internally and the management energy it sapped was significant. So no need for Alonso.
2) Ferrari. Clear number 1 strategy and they have their number under contract to 2020. They also have deep insight into Alonso (performance and behaviour) to make a judgement.
3) Red Bull. Clear young driver strategy with Max in place. Now I'm sure the considered Alonso but have no need. Given they remain behind Ferrari and Mercedes on the engine side, they probably think that Max can deliver the points when they are possible, as Alonso has said, the driver makes a difference, but can't make up a massive shortfall in the dry.
Vocal Minority said:
Sa Calobra said:
Lewis went to a team that everyone said he was mad to join. Look at how that turned out?
There was a pretty obvious thought pattern at the time - I think most people saw why he did it. I think the 'everyone thought he was mad' - should read 'everyone who didn't think past the next race thought he was mad'.
robbom3 said:
I’ve always despised Alonso the man, but still believe he is one of the greatest drivers of his generation. Unfortunately, he had a “win at any cost” mentality, which sometimes meant he crossed the cheat line. No one will ever convince me that he wasn’t complicit in the “crash gate” affair. Ok, you could argue he was doing the right thing, but it was for purely selfish reasons. You could also argue that that was the start of McLarens dramatic slide, from which they’ve never recovered.
Fantastic talent behind the wheel, but a deeply unpleasant individual everywhere else.
That sums up Hamilton for me.Fantastic talent behind the wheel, but a deeply unpleasant individual everywhere else.
Each to their own......
REALIST123 said:
robbom3 said:
I’ve always despised Alonso the man, but still believe he is one of the greatest drivers of his generation. Unfortunately, he had a “win at any cost” mentality, which sometimes meant he crossed the cheat line. No one will ever convince me that he wasn’t complicit in the “crash gate” affair. Ok, you could argue he was doing the right thing, but it was for purely selfish reasons. You could also argue that that was the start of McLarens dramatic slide, from which they’ve never recovered.
Fantastic talent behind the wheel, but a deeply unpleasant individual everywhere else.
That sums up Hamilton for me.Fantastic talent behind the wheel, but a deeply unpleasant individual everywhere else.
Each to their own......
Villeneuve mentions being team mates with Alonso around 18 minutes in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7kVAnQoy3k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7kVAnQoy3k
Sa Calobra said:
Vocal Minority said:
Sa Calobra said:
Lewis went to a team that everyone said he was mad to join. Look at how that turned out?
There was a pretty obvious thought pattern at the time - I think most people saw why he did it. I think the 'everyone thought he was mad' - should read 'everyone who didn't think past the next race thought he was mad'.
Autosport, Motorsport etc seem to think there was a clear method there. The chat was ALL about how far ahead Mercedes were anticipated to be.
Vocal Minority said:
Autosport, Motorsport etc seem to think there was a clear method there. The chat was ALL about how far ahead Mercedes were anticipated to be.
Plus the focus being on how Ross must have shown Lewis a compelling story. I think even later it was said that Michael had urged them to hire Lewis, IIRC.I used to really dislike Alonso as a big Hamilton fan but through the Ferrari years I learnt to respect him and then the second time at McLaren I really began to like him. I think he has shown about as much maturity and class as can be reasonably expected from someone so good being at the back. I think Hamilton is great but I think he would not act half as well in the same situation.
Unfortunately for Alonso his tactic to moving team always seams to have been fall out with the one you are at walk out then look down the pit lane. When he should really have done what the more successful drivers usually do which is look around speak to them about future plans meet the designers and team bosses then decide if you think they will be better before walking out. It really has stifled what should have been a much more numerically successful career.
This kind of ties in to what is probably a completely wrong perception I have always had of him. Which is that he walks in to a team demands the fastest car walks out. Then shouts at them Saturday when its not the best car, continues to keep berating until he leaves or they produce a fast car. Undoubtably capable of winning championships if you gave him the car but to me never seemed to work towards getting it there. As I said this is probably totally wrong but it's just vibe I always got from him.
As far as saying he was nasty. I have a friend who is a sports psychologist he has told me that everyone he has ever worked with that has been at the top of there sport has had a seriously nasty streak. He had no doubt that all of them would gladly do whatever is necessary to secure there ultimate goal. If you look at most multiple world champions like Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton etc they all have this slightly nasty side. Alonso is in the top league and carries the same attitudes it probably comes from unshakeable belief that they are the best and deserve to win.
I personally think he at least deserved his third title.
Unfortunately for Alonso his tactic to moving team always seams to have been fall out with the one you are at walk out then look down the pit lane. When he should really have done what the more successful drivers usually do which is look around speak to them about future plans meet the designers and team bosses then decide if you think they will be better before walking out. It really has stifled what should have been a much more numerically successful career.
This kind of ties in to what is probably a completely wrong perception I have always had of him. Which is that he walks in to a team demands the fastest car walks out. Then shouts at them Saturday when its not the best car, continues to keep berating until he leaves or they produce a fast car. Undoubtably capable of winning championships if you gave him the car but to me never seemed to work towards getting it there. As I said this is probably totally wrong but it's just vibe I always got from him.
As far as saying he was nasty. I have a friend who is a sports psychologist he has told me that everyone he has ever worked with that has been at the top of there sport has had a seriously nasty streak. He had no doubt that all of them would gladly do whatever is necessary to secure there ultimate goal. If you look at most multiple world champions like Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton etc they all have this slightly nasty side. Alonso is in the top league and carries the same attitudes it probably comes from unshakeable belief that they are the best and deserve to win.
I personally think he at least deserved his third title.
ntiz said:
If you look at most multiple world champions like Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton etc they all have this slightly nasty side.
Slightly sociopathic? I think Hakkinen must be an exception? I never picked up that he had that nasty side and was a multiple WDC - and someone that Schumacher held in very, very high regard as a fair competitor and sportsman.
TobyTR said:
Broken record... So you don't rate Alonso, but everyone else in the F1 industry does... I'm sure he's crying into his many many millions 
1. Hamilton beat Alonso by scoring one more 2nd place finish than Alonso throughout 2007. Button beat Hamilton in 2011 by a considerable number of points margin at the height of both their careers... What is your point?
I'm wondering what your point is. The earlier point was that Hamilton beat Alonso in the former's rookie year. I'm confused as to what Button had to do with that.1. Hamilton beat Alonso by scoring one more 2nd place finish than Alonso throughout 2007. Button beat Hamilton in 2011 by a considerable number of points margin at the height of both their careers... What is your point?
The thing that has always stuck with me is that everyone, we are told, rated Alonso, some calling him the best driver of his generation yet he was never troubled with having to fight off the queue of top teams wanting to sign him.
If he's the best, then why all the rejection.
Whilst I know that has nothing to do with his ability in the car, being the best driver means the whole package. Someone mentioned he drove round one corner very fast. There's more to motor racing than that.
He missed out because he messed up. I have little doubt that he could have won at least one more WDC and probably two. He's that good in a car. What he is like out of it is what caused him to miss out.
I went off him after Stepneygagte. I know there were two main protagonists, with the catalyst third member having the most blame, but he was cheating. Fair enough, without Mozzy it would have all blown over. Then crash, er, gate. However, he is one of the most exciting drivers on the grid and he's always worth watching. It will be a shame when he goes. Whilst I've warmed to him, we've seen the occasional spark from his nasty side every now and again.
I'm sorry to see him go. We will never know what he could have done.
Probably one of my favourite overtakes in F1 over the last 25 years
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdmWq4ooQo
Absolute and total commitment............
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdmWq4ooQo
Absolute and total commitment............
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff