Our Damon in Adelaide

Our Damon in Adelaide

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Discussion

Sam993

1,302 posts

9 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
MrVert said:
bobbo89 said:
I was born in 1989 so this thread has lead me to watch this for the very first time with a fresh set of eyes and no bias towards either driver.

To me, it appears that after going into the barrier, Schumi comes back on track watching Hill in his mirror the entire time deliberatly keeping it wide to block Hill going around the outside.

Hill then takes a dive up the inside as Schumi's block has left the door wide open but upon noticing this, Schumi steers straight into the side of Hill as a desperate final attempt at blocking a pass.

Cheating it wasn't but it was definatly unsporting.
Spot on. 100% agree. It's completely obvious when you watch it.
And this is exactly how everyone saw this (except cb1965 and his imaginary friends from around the world who say that this was a non-event that nobody cares about).

I googled this cbgb guy and it turns out he likes this subject A LOT! For some reason he's very emotionally invested in trying to prove the world wrong.

One interesting link that I found while googling was this

https://youtu.be/NEP8mYs-ynk?t=23s

I've even converted it to a gif



hehe

LEAVE SCHUMACHER ALONE!

El stovey

24,482 posts

200 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
I’m in that video. Despite the weird cb bloke saying I’m lying. hehe

Eric Mc

104,725 posts

202 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
El stovey said:
I’m in that video. Despite the weird cb bloke saying I’m lying. hehe
You're not Damon, are you?

angrymoby

807 posts

115 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
Sam993 said:
And this is exactly how everyone saw this (except cb1965 and his imaginary friends from around the world who say that this was a non-event that nobody cares about).

I googled this cbgb guy and it turns out he likes this subject A LOT! For some reason he's very emotionally invested in trying to prove the world wrong.

One interesting link that I found while googling was this

https://youtu.be/NEP8mYs-ynk?t=23s

I've even converted it to a gif



hehe

LEAVE SCHUMACHER ALONE!
Maybe cb1965 thinks this is all those other folk think of, regarding Adelaide '94 ...completely ignoring the previous 5 seconds where Schumacher absolutely clatters the wall.

After hitting the wall, he knew exactly what he then needed to do ...& he did it in the most cynical manner possible, by leaving the door open & then deliberately shutting it

& no, you can't legitimately claim the 'racing line' when you know your car is terminally knackered & travelling half the pace it should be (well, not if you have any kind of moral compass)

absolute s trick ...& later antics only confirmed that view

& the ironic bit? even if he hadn't have been such a cheating dirty he'd have still won his all his WDC's ...he was simply that good




Edited by angrymoby on Thursday 23 August 19:23

Sam993

1,302 posts

9 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
angrymoby said:
Sam993 said:
And this is exactly how everyone saw this (except cb1965 and his imaginary friends from around the world who say that this was a non-event that nobody cares about).

I googled this cbgb guy and it turns out he likes this subject A LOT! For some reason he's very emotionally invested in trying to prove the world wrong.

One interesting link that I found while googling was this

https://youtu.be/NEP8mYs-ynk?t=23s

I've even converted it to a gif



hehe

LEAVE SCHUMACHER ALONE!
Maybe cb1965 thinks this is all those other folk think of regarding Adelaide '94 ...completely ignoring the previous 5 seconds where Schumacher absolutely clatters the wall.

After hitting the wall, he knew exactly what he then needed to do ...& he did it in the most cynical manner possible, by leaving the door open & then deliberately shutting it

& no, you can't legitimately claim the 'racing line' when you know your car is terminally knackered & travelling half the pace it should be (well, not if you have any kind of moral compass)

absolute s trick ...& later antics only confirmed that view

& the ironic bit? even if he hadn't have been such a cheating dirty he'd have still won his all his WDC's ...he was simply that good
And to claim that Damon dive bombed inside as some revisionists do... that classifies as "you need to go to specsavers". If the above doesn't look like a perfectly normal overtaking manoeuvre (until the door gets slammed shut) then I don't know what is.
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cb1965

2,686 posts

82 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
El stovey said:
I’m in that video. Despite the weird cb bloke saying I’m lying. hehe
I actually said precisely the opposite, but never mind as why let that get in the way of a good whinge!

F1GTRUeno

3,955 posts

155 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
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Schumacher knew his car was fked.

Hill went for the gap on instinct, hindsight tells us that he could've waited but in the heat of the moment he had neither the time nor the foresight to do so. He couldn't have guessed that Schumacher's car was fked in such a quick time, all he saw was him returning to the track after going off and a gap was there. What is it that Senna said to JYS? If you no longer go for the gap you're not a racing driver?

Schumacher turned in knowing full well Damon's car was there (yes he was ahead but there was a car in that gap so he knew there'd be contact), he did exactly what he did at Jerez in 1997 and got away with it, you can see the look on his face before he knows Damon has retired and it's sheepish to say the least.

With regards to the bans. The FIA were in a state of extreme panic all year so there was no rational thinking whatsoever. They also needed to protect the sport from the void left by Senna and having Schumacher win almost every opening race by miles and having a basically uncatchable lead wouldn't have made for good television so they did what they needed to to spice things up.

Benetton didn't help themselves either but that's to be expected given Walkinshaw and Briatore are two of the biggest known cheating aholes to have ever graced motorsport. They gave the FIA reason to punish them even if the punishments were excessive.

I don't think you'll find any British person nor any Damon fan (I was a huge one growing up and remain so) saying anything remotely to the effect of he was anywhere near the same level as Schumacher but he did what he needed to in the aftermath of Senna's death and he visibly grew throughout the year. He was a completely different animal in Adelaide to basically every other race that year and that came from the confidence he got in Japan. If people get the chance to watch the 35 laps or so fight that that last race was, it's immensely close and you can tell Michael is feeling a pressure he's not been used to all season. With everything going on throughout that race it's one of the best title decider/season finales I've ever seen.

The worst thing that stands out to me about it all is just how fecking awful Williams were strategy wise in 1994. They completely failed to adapt to the new pitstop regulations and it was often Michael doing three quick sprints that got him so far ahead of Damon (or Ayrton in Brazil and staying with him for the laps until the crash at Imola) whilst Williams floundered on a one or a two stop. I think Damon had the pace in quite a few races had he been given the right strategy but he wasn't and often ended up 20-30 seconds behind Michael at the end.

1994 holds a very special place in my heart as it was the first season I remember watching F1 properly, I was four years old and I absolutely loved it more than anything else. Senna's death hit me to the point I remember crying when the were showing a montage to sad music despite barely knowing who he was and the commentary from Imola after the crash will be forever stuck in my mind. It's a ridiculous year of controversy, cheating, bad driving and of course two immense losses, one of which is about as big as it gets for any sport. It's not one that many look back on with any fondness but I do. I love the cars, the liveries, the sounds, the fact it was covered in GP2 and the fact that I have such vivid memories of it.

Edited by F1GTRUeno on Thursday 23 August 23:34

Greg66

8,276 posts

115 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
F1GTRUeno said:
He was a completely different animal in Adelaide to basically every other race that year and that came from the confidence he got in Japan. If people get the chance to watch the 35 laps or so fight that that last race was, it's immensely close and you can tell Michael is feeling a pressure he's not been used to all season.
A lot of people overlook this. Those two simply drove away from the rest of the field in Adelaide, and MS had DH on his gearbox relentlessly. MS went into the wall precisely because of the pressure DH put him under.

DH wrote after the event that he didn’t have a clear view of how hard MS had hit the wall or what sort of state MS’s car was in once it came off the wall. His thinking was that MS might still have race pace, and here was his chance to take the lead. Better not to pass up that chance.

MS, OTOH, must have known as soon as he came off the wall that his car was totalled. He knew he had one chance to take DH’s car out, which was on the corner where he did just that. As said above, he opened the door them slammed it shut.

I’ve often wondered how events would have played out if DH had known how bad the damage to MS’s car really was. DH sits back, waiting for a clear road, MS slows, waiting for the moment to drive into DH. My personal view is that had they got round that corner, MS would have weaved and then just put DH into the wall on the next straight.

And to say MS won the DWC in 1994 with 4 fewer races is nonsense. DH had two DNFs. MS had two fewer races, the precise number of his ban for ignoring a black flag.

whatxd

133 posts

38 months

Tuesday 28th August 2018
quotequote all
Greg66 said:
And to say MS won the DWC in 1994 with 4 fewer races is nonsense. DH had two DNFs. MS had two fewer races, the precise number of his ban for ignoring a black flag.
Selective memory. MS had a DNF in Germany so by your logic, Hill had 3 more races.

Regardless of your selective memory, Hill only beat MS on the road twice throughout the entire 94 season. First in Spain and we all know why that happened and second in Japan.

Due to suspensions and DNF (which you're conveniently leaving out) MS only scored points in 10 races in 94. He won 8 and finished second in the other 2.

cb1965

2,686 posts

82 months

Tuesday 28th August 2018
quotequote all
whatxd said:
Greg66 said:
And to say MS won the DWC in 1994 with 4 fewer races is nonsense. DH had two DNFs. MS had two fewer races, the precise number of his ban for ignoring a black flag.
Selective memory. MS had a DNF in Germany so by your logic, Hill had 3 more races.

Regardless of your selective memory, Hill only beat MS on the road twice throughout the entire 94 season. First in Spain and we all know why that happened and second in Japan.

Due to suspensions and DNF (which you're conveniently leaving out) MS only scored points in 10 races in 94. He won 8 and finished second in the other 2.
You're wasting your time, basic maths and other simple logic goes out of the window with some of these guys!

ELUSIVEJIM

4,611 posts

88 months

Tuesday 28th August 2018
quotequote all
Anyone defending Hill needs a few reminders.

Hill was guilty of hitting Schumacher on many more occasions

Hill/Schumacher crash in Silverstone 1995

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_CdcAdAjE

M.Schumacher Hill crash - F1 Monza 1995

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mWw78WrJpc

Oh and Hill being a proper sportsman

Lapped Hill Holds Up Schumacher at Suzuka 1997

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxu8LIzeNHY

Muzzer79

2,547 posts

124 months

Tuesday 28th August 2018
quotequote all
Greg66 said:
F1GTRUeno said:
He was a completely different animal in Adelaide to basically every other race that year and that came from the confidence he got in Japan. If people get the chance to watch the 35 laps or so fight that that last race was, it's immensely close and you can tell Michael is feeling a pressure he's not been used to all season.
A lot of people overlook this. Those two simply drove away from the rest of the field in Adelaide, and MS had DH on his gearbox relentlessly. MS went into the wall precisely because of the pressure DH put him under.

DH wrote after the event that he didn’t have a clear view of how hard MS had hit the wall or what sort of state MS’s car was in once it came off the wall. His thinking was that MS might still have race pace, and here was his chance to take the lead. Better not to pass up that chance.

MS, OTOH, must have known as soon as he came off the wall that his car was totalled. He knew he had one chance to take DH’s car out, which was on the corner where he did just that. As said above, he opened the door them slammed it shut.

I’ve often wondered how events would have played out if DH had known how bad the damage to MS’s car really was. DH sits back, waiting for a clear road, MS slows, waiting for the moment to drive into DH. My personal view is that had they got round that corner, MS would have weaved and then just put DH into the wall on the next straight.

And to say MS won the DWC in 1994 with 4 fewer races is nonsense. DH had two DNFs. MS had two fewer races, the precise number of his ban for ignoring a black flag.
I agree with you in principle, but I credit Schumacher with a touch more humanity

I believe that Hill didn’t see MS hit the wall and went for an opportunity that presented itself in a split second. With hindsight, you could say he should have held back but he didn’t have the benefit of foresight on the day

MS, I believe, knew he had hit something but didn’t know how bad it was. Again, in a split second, he saw his title rival coming up the inside and instinctively turned in on him (just as we’d see him do in Jerez 3 years later)

I don’t think he set out to take Hill out per se, but he intended to block his overtake at whatever cost.

It’s a shame, Damon drove so well in Japan and in Adelaide. Schumacher was the faster driver overall, but either of them deserved the title and on the day Michael made a mistake, so it should have been Damon.

Muzzer79

2,547 posts

124 months

Tuesday 28th August 2018
quotequote all
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Anyone defending Hill needs a few reminders.

Hill was guilty of hitting Schumacher on many more occasions

Hill/Schumacher crash in Silverstone 1995

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_CdcAdAjE

M.Schumacher Hill crash - F1 Monza 1995

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mWw78WrJpc

Oh and Hill being a proper sportsman

Lapped Hill Holds Up Schumacher at Suzuka 1997

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxu8LIzeNHY
Different races, different circumstances, therefore irrelevant


ELUSIVEJIM

4,611 posts

88 months

Tuesday 28th August 2018
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
Different races, different circumstances, therefore irrelevant
laugh

Bury your head in the sand

tumbleweed



37chevy

2,198 posts

93 months

Tuesday 28th August 2018
quotequote all
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Anyone defending Hill needs a few reminders.

Hill was guilty of hitting Schumacher on many more occasions

Hill/Schumacher crash in Silverstone 1995

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_CdcAdAjE

M.Schumacher Hill crash - F1 Monza 1995

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mWw78WrJpc

Oh and Hill being a proper sportsman

Lapped Hill Holds Up Schumacher at Suzuka 1997

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxu8LIzeNHY
Anyone using these examples also needs to remember they happened AFTER 1994. Guess Schumacher deserved it after Adelaide. Not saying hill should have done it....but I can understand why he would. It’s not like Senna or Prost went tit for tat or anything....

F1GTRUeno

3,955 posts

155 months

Wednesday 29th August 2018
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
I don’t think he set out to take Hill out per se, but he intended to block his overtake at whatever cost.
So....he meant to take him out? If you block the overtake safe in the knowledge that you're going to hit the other driver then you're trying to take them out.

ELUSIVEJIM said:
Anyone defending Hill needs a few reminders.

Hill was guilty of hitting Schumacher on many more occasions

Hill/Schumacher crash in Silverstone 1995

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_CdcAdAjE

M.Schumacher Hill crash - F1 Monza 1995

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mWw78WrJpc

Oh and Hill being a proper sportsman

Lapped Hill Holds Up Schumacher at Suzuka 1997

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxu8LIzeNHY
The first two were driving errors committed because Hill was under pressure and over driving the car knowing his chances of the title were slipping away, they were intentional or malicious.

The third video is blatant mind, and he fked about with him in Canada in 1998 by moving more times than was allowed.

Damon knew how to be a tt if he needed to but to claim the first two at least are anything against his moral compass is silly IMO, they were just bad errors of judgement.

Mr Tidy

7,183 posts

64 months

Wednesday 29th August 2018
quotequote all
It seems to be a German arrogance thing IMO!

MS knew that was never going to work. laugh

NR won the title once, but bottled it by quitting! laugh

SV crashes into the car in front of him last year while the Safety Car was on the track. laugh

NH got it a bit wrong at Spa last Sunday. laugh

It hasn't ended too well for most of them though has it?





cb1965

2,686 posts

82 months

Wednesday 29th August 2018
quotequote all
Mr Tidy said:
It hasn't ended too well for most of them though has it?
I am hoping that comment is not aimed at Schumacher's current predicament, I shall assume not in which case

Schumacher has 7 world championships and is a multi millionaire

Vettel has 4 world championships and is a multi millionaire

Rosberg has a world championship and is a multi millionaire

Hulkenberg gets to drive F1 cars and is probably a millionaire

If that's your definition of not ending well....

angrymoby

807 posts

115 months

Wednesday 29th August 2018
quotequote all
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Anyone defending Hill needs a few reminders.

Hill was guilty of hitting Schumacher on many more occasions

Hill/Schumacher crash in Silverstone 1995

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_CdcAdAjE

M.Schumacher Hill crash - F1 Monza 1995

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mWw78WrJpc

Oh and Hill being a proper sportsman

Lapped Hill Holds Up Schumacher at Suzuka 1997

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxu8LIzeNHY
tbf to Damon, if someone cost me a WDC i'd be crashing into them or making their life a misery at every single race thereafter ...so those 3 incidents seems quite tame retaliation to me

& can you imagine the fallout if it had been Senna in that Williams instead!




Edited by angrymoby on Wednesday 29th August 10:06

ELUSIVEJIM

4,611 posts

88 months

Wednesday 29th August 2018
quotequote all
angrymoby said:
tbf to Damon, if someone cost me a WDC i'd be crashing into them or making their life a misery at every single race thereafter ...so those 3 incidents seems quite tame to me
I still find it quite unbelievable that people still state that Schumacher took Damon out.

Damon attempted a move that was just never going to work out.

But for the Damon fans, he finally got his Championship when Schumacher was driving a red bus biggrin