Our Damon in Adelaide
Discussion
MrVert said:
bobbo89 said:
I was born in 1989 so this thread has lead me to watch this for the very first time with a fresh set of eyes and no bias towards either driver.
To me, it appears that after going into the barrier, Schumi comes back on track watching Hill in his mirror the entire time deliberatly keeping it wide to block Hill going around the outside.
Hill then takes a dive up the inside as Schumi's block has left the door wide open but upon noticing this, Schumi steers straight into the side of Hill as a desperate final attempt at blocking a pass.
Cheating it wasn't but it was definatly unsporting.
Spot on. 100% agree. It's completely obvious when you watch it. To me, it appears that after going into the barrier, Schumi comes back on track watching Hill in his mirror the entire time deliberatly keeping it wide to block Hill going around the outside.
Hill then takes a dive up the inside as Schumi's block has left the door wide open but upon noticing this, Schumi steers straight into the side of Hill as a desperate final attempt at blocking a pass.
Cheating it wasn't but it was definatly unsporting.
I googled this cbgb guy and it turns out he likes this subject A LOT! For some reason he's very emotionally invested in trying to prove the world wrong.
One interesting link that I found while googling was this
https://youtu.be/NEP8mYs-ynk?t=23s
I've even converted it to a gif
LEAVE SCHUMACHER ALONE!
Sam993 said:
And this is exactly how everyone saw this (except cb1965 and his imaginary friends from around the world who say that this was a non-event that nobody cares about).
I googled this cbgb guy and it turns out he likes this subject A LOT! For some reason he's very emotionally invested in trying to prove the world wrong.
One interesting link that I found while googling was this
https://youtu.be/NEP8mYs-ynk?t=23s
I've even converted it to a gif
LEAVE SCHUMACHER ALONE!
Maybe cb1965 thinks this is all those other folk think of, regarding Adelaide '94 ...completely ignoring the previous 5 seconds where Schumacher absolutely clatters the wall.I googled this cbgb guy and it turns out he likes this subject A LOT! For some reason he's very emotionally invested in trying to prove the world wrong.
One interesting link that I found while googling was this
https://youtu.be/NEP8mYs-ynk?t=23s
I've even converted it to a gif
LEAVE SCHUMACHER ALONE!
After hitting the wall, he knew exactly what he then needed to do ...& he did it in the most cynical manner possible, by leaving the door open & then deliberately shutting it
& no, you can't legitimately claim the 'racing line' when you know your car is terminally knackered & travelling half the pace it should be (well, not if you have any kind of moral compass)
absolute
s trick ...& later antics only confirmed that view& the ironic bit? even if he hadn't have been such a cheating dirty
he'd have still won his all his WDC's ...he was simply that goodEdited by angrymoby on Thursday 23 August 19:23
angrymoby said:
Sam993 said:
And this is exactly how everyone saw this (except cb1965 and his imaginary friends from around the world who say that this was a non-event that nobody cares about).
I googled this cbgb guy and it turns out he likes this subject A LOT! For some reason he's very emotionally invested in trying to prove the world wrong.
One interesting link that I found while googling was this
https://youtu.be/NEP8mYs-ynk?t=23s
I've even converted it to a gif
LEAVE SCHUMACHER ALONE!
Maybe cb1965 thinks this is all those other folk think of regarding Adelaide '94 ...completely ignoring the previous 5 seconds where Schumacher absolutely clatters the wall.I googled this cbgb guy and it turns out he likes this subject A LOT! For some reason he's very emotionally invested in trying to prove the world wrong.
One interesting link that I found while googling was this
https://youtu.be/NEP8mYs-ynk?t=23s
I've even converted it to a gif
LEAVE SCHUMACHER ALONE!
After hitting the wall, he knew exactly what he then needed to do ...& he did it in the most cynical manner possible, by leaving the door open & then deliberately shutting it
& no, you can't legitimately claim the 'racing line' when you know your car is terminally knackered & travelling half the pace it should be (well, not if you have any kind of moral compass)
absolute
s trick ...& later antics only confirmed that view& the ironic bit? even if he hadn't have been such a cheating dirty
he'd have still won his all his WDC's ...he was simply that goodSchumacher knew his car was fked.
Hill went for the gap on instinct, hindsight tells us that he could've waited but in the heat of the moment he had neither the time nor the foresight to do so. He couldn't have guessed that Schumacher's car was fked in such a quick time, all he saw was him returning to the track after going off and a gap was there. What is it that Senna said to JYS? If you no longer go for the gap you're not a racing driver?
Schumacher turned in knowing full well Damon's car was there (yes he was ahead but there was a car in that gap so he knew there'd be contact), he did exactly what he did at Jerez in 1997 and got away with it, you can see the look on his face before he knows Damon has retired and it's sheepish to say the least.
With regards to the bans. The FIA were in a state of extreme panic all year so there was no rational thinking whatsoever. They also needed to protect the sport from the void left by Senna and having Schumacher win almost every opening race by miles and having a basically uncatchable lead wouldn't have made for good television so they did what they needed to to spice things up.
Benetton didn't help themselves either but that's to be expected given Walkinshaw and Briatore are two of the biggest known cheating aholes to have ever graced motorsport. They gave the FIA reason to punish them even if the punishments were excessive.
I don't think you'll find any British person nor any Damon fan (I was a huge one growing up and remain so) saying anything remotely to the effect of he was anywhere near the same level as Schumacher but he did what he needed to in the aftermath of Senna's death and he visibly grew throughout the year. He was a completely different animal in Adelaide to basically every other race that year and that came from the confidence he got in Japan. If people get the chance to watch the 35 laps or so fight that that last race was, it's immensely close and you can tell Michael is feeling a pressure he's not been used to all season. With everything going on throughout that race it's one of the best title decider/season finales I've ever seen.
The worst thing that stands out to me about it all is just how fecking awful Williams were strategy wise in 1994. They completely failed to adapt to the new pitstop regulations and it was often Michael doing three quick sprints that got him so far ahead of Damon (or Ayrton in Brazil and staying with him for the laps until the crash at Imola) whilst Williams floundered on a one or a two stop. I think Damon had the pace in quite a few races had he been given the right strategy but he wasn't and often ended up 20-30 seconds behind Michael at the end.
1994 holds a very special place in my heart as it was the first season I remember watching F1 properly, I was four years old and I absolutely loved it more than anything else. Senna's death hit me to the point I remember crying when the were showing a montage to sad music despite barely knowing who he was and the commentary from Imola after the crash will be forever stuck in my mind. It's a ridiculous year of controversy, cheating, bad driving and of course two immense losses, one of which is about as big as it gets for any sport. It's not one that many look back on with any fondness but I do. I love the cars, the liveries, the sounds, the fact it was covered in GP2 and the fact that I have such vivid memories of it.
ked.Hill went for the gap on instinct, hindsight tells us that he could've waited but in the heat of the moment he had neither the time nor the foresight to do so. He couldn't have guessed that Schumacher's car was f
ked in such a quick time, all he saw was him returning to the track after going off and a gap was there. What is it that Senna said to JYS? If you no longer go for the gap you're not a racing driver?Schumacher turned in knowing full well Damon's car was there (yes he was ahead but there was a car in that gap so he knew there'd be contact), he did exactly what he did at Jerez in 1997 and got away with it, you can see the look on his face before he knows Damon has retired and it's sheepish to say the least.
With regards to the bans. The FIA were in a state of extreme panic all year so there was no rational thinking whatsoever. They also needed to protect the sport from the void left by Senna and having Schumacher win almost every opening race by miles and having a basically uncatchable lead wouldn't have made for good television so they did what they needed to to spice things up.
Benetton didn't help themselves either but that's to be expected given Walkinshaw and Briatore are two of the biggest known cheating a
holes to have ever graced motorsport. They gave the FIA reason to punish them even if the punishments were excessive.I don't think you'll find any British person nor any Damon fan (I was a huge one growing up and remain so) saying anything remotely to the effect of he was anywhere near the same level as Schumacher but he did what he needed to in the aftermath of Senna's death and he visibly grew throughout the year. He was a completely different animal in Adelaide to basically every other race that year and that came from the confidence he got in Japan. If people get the chance to watch the 35 laps or so fight that that last race was, it's immensely close and you can tell Michael is feeling a pressure he's not been used to all season. With everything going on throughout that race it's one of the best title decider/season finales I've ever seen.
The worst thing that stands out to me about it all is just how fecking awful Williams were strategy wise in 1994. They completely failed to adapt to the new pitstop regulations and it was often Michael doing three quick sprints that got him so far ahead of Damon (or Ayrton in Brazil and staying with him for the laps until the crash at Imola) whilst Williams floundered on a one or a two stop. I think Damon had the pace in quite a few races had he been given the right strategy but he wasn't and often ended up 20-30 seconds behind Michael at the end.
1994 holds a very special place in my heart as it was the first season I remember watching F1 properly, I was four years old and I absolutely loved it more than anything else. Senna's death hit me to the point I remember crying when the were showing a montage to sad music despite barely knowing who he was and the commentary from Imola after the crash will be forever stuck in my mind. It's a ridiculous year of controversy, cheating, bad driving and of course two immense losses, one of which is about as big as it gets for any sport. It's not one that many look back on with any fondness but I do. I love the cars, the liveries, the sounds, the fact it was covered in GP2 and the fact that I have such vivid memories of it.
Edited by F1GTRUeno on Thursday 23 August 23:34
F1GTRUeno said:
He was a completely different animal in Adelaide to basically every other race that year and that came from the confidence he got in Japan. If people get the chance to watch the 35 laps or so fight that that last race was, it's immensely close and you can tell Michael is feeling a pressure he's not been used to all season.
A lot of people overlook this. Those two simply drove away from the rest of the field in Adelaide, and MS had DH on his gearbox relentlessly. MS went into the wall precisely because of the pressure DH put him under. DH wrote after the event that he didn’t have a clear view of how hard MS had hit the wall or what sort of state MS’s car was in once it came off the wall. His thinking was that MS might still have race pace, and here was his chance to take the lead. Better not to pass up that chance.
MS, OTOH, must have known as soon as he came off the wall that his car was totalled. He knew he had one chance to take DH’s car out, which was on the corner where he did just that. As said above, he opened the door them slammed it shut.
I’ve often wondered how events would have played out if DH had known how bad the damage to MS’s car really was. DH sits back, waiting for a clear road, MS slows, waiting for the moment to drive into DH. My personal view is that had they got round that corner, MS would have weaved and then just put DH into the wall on the next straight.
And to say MS won the DWC in 1994 with 4 fewer races is nonsense. DH had two DNFs. MS had two fewer races, the precise number of his ban for ignoring a black flag.
Greg66 said:
And to say MS won the DWC in 1994 with 4 fewer races is nonsense. DH had two DNFs. MS had two fewer races, the precise number of his ban for ignoring a black flag.
Selective memory. MS had a DNF in Germany so by your logic, Hill had 3 more races.Regardless of your selective memory, Hill only beat MS on the road twice throughout the entire 94 season. First in Spain and we all know why that happened and second in Japan.
Due to suspensions and DNF (which you're conveniently leaving out) MS only scored points in 10 races in 94. He won 8 and finished second in the other 2.
whatxd said:
Greg66 said:
And to say MS won the DWC in 1994 with 4 fewer races is nonsense. DH had two DNFs. MS had two fewer races, the precise number of his ban for ignoring a black flag.
Selective memory. MS had a DNF in Germany so by your logic, Hill had 3 more races.Regardless of your selective memory, Hill only beat MS on the road twice throughout the entire 94 season. First in Spain and we all know why that happened and second in Japan.
Due to suspensions and DNF (which you're conveniently leaving out) MS only scored points in 10 races in 94. He won 8 and finished second in the other 2.
Anyone defending Hill needs a few reminders.
Hill was guilty of hitting Schumacher on many more occasions
Hill/Schumacher crash in Silverstone 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_CdcAdAjE
M.Schumacher Hill crash - F1 Monza 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mWw78WrJpc
Oh and Hill being a proper sportsman
Lapped Hill Holds Up Schumacher at Suzuka 1997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxu8LIzeNHY
Hill was guilty of hitting Schumacher on many more occasions
Hill/Schumacher crash in Silverstone 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_CdcAdAjE
M.Schumacher Hill crash - F1 Monza 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mWw78WrJpc
Oh and Hill being a proper sportsman
Lapped Hill Holds Up Schumacher at Suzuka 1997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxu8LIzeNHY
Greg66 said:
F1GTRUeno said:
He was a completely different animal in Adelaide to basically every other race that year and that came from the confidence he got in Japan. If people get the chance to watch the 35 laps or so fight that that last race was, it's immensely close and you can tell Michael is feeling a pressure he's not been used to all season.
A lot of people overlook this. Those two simply drove away from the rest of the field in Adelaide, and MS had DH on his gearbox relentlessly. MS went into the wall precisely because of the pressure DH put him under. DH wrote after the event that he didn’t have a clear view of how hard MS had hit the wall or what sort of state MS’s car was in once it came off the wall. His thinking was that MS might still have race pace, and here was his chance to take the lead. Better not to pass up that chance.
MS, OTOH, must have known as soon as he came off the wall that his car was totalled. He knew he had one chance to take DH’s car out, which was on the corner where he did just that. As said above, he opened the door them slammed it shut.
I’ve often wondered how events would have played out if DH had known how bad the damage to MS’s car really was. DH sits back, waiting for a clear road, MS slows, waiting for the moment to drive into DH. My personal view is that had they got round that corner, MS would have weaved and then just put DH into the wall on the next straight.
And to say MS won the DWC in 1994 with 4 fewer races is nonsense. DH had two DNFs. MS had two fewer races, the precise number of his ban for ignoring a black flag.
I believe that Hill didn’t see MS hit the wall and went for an opportunity that presented itself in a split second. With hindsight, you could say he should have held back but he didn’t have the benefit of foresight on the day
MS, I believe, knew he had hit something but didn’t know how bad it was. Again, in a split second, he saw his title rival coming up the inside and instinctively turned in on him (just as we’d see him do in Jerez 3 years later)
I don’t think he set out to take Hill out per se, but he intended to block his overtake at whatever cost.
It’s a shame, Damon drove so well in Japan and in Adelaide. Schumacher was the faster driver overall, but either of them deserved the title and on the day Michael made a mistake, so it should have been Damon.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Anyone defending Hill needs a few reminders.
Hill was guilty of hitting Schumacher on many more occasions
Hill/Schumacher crash in Silverstone 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_CdcAdAjE
M.Schumacher Hill crash - F1 Monza 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mWw78WrJpc
Oh and Hill being a proper sportsman
Lapped Hill Holds Up Schumacher at Suzuka 1997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxu8LIzeNHY
Different races, different circumstances, therefore irrelevantHill was guilty of hitting Schumacher on many more occasions
Hill/Schumacher crash in Silverstone 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_CdcAdAjE
M.Schumacher Hill crash - F1 Monza 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mWw78WrJpc
Oh and Hill being a proper sportsman
Lapped Hill Holds Up Schumacher at Suzuka 1997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxu8LIzeNHY
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Anyone defending Hill needs a few reminders.
Hill was guilty of hitting Schumacher on many more occasions
Hill/Schumacher crash in Silverstone 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_CdcAdAjE
M.Schumacher Hill crash - F1 Monza 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mWw78WrJpc
Oh and Hill being a proper sportsman
Lapped Hill Holds Up Schumacher at Suzuka 1997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxu8LIzeNHY
Anyone using these examples also needs to remember they happened AFTER 1994. Guess Schumacher deserved it after Adelaide. Not saying hill should have done it....but I can understand why he would. It’s not like Senna or Prost went tit for tat or anything....Hill was guilty of hitting Schumacher on many more occasions
Hill/Schumacher crash in Silverstone 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_CdcAdAjE
M.Schumacher Hill crash - F1 Monza 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mWw78WrJpc
Oh and Hill being a proper sportsman
Lapped Hill Holds Up Schumacher at Suzuka 1997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxu8LIzeNHY
Muzzer79 said:
I don’t think he set out to take Hill out per se, but he intended to block his overtake at whatever cost.
So....he meant to take him out? If you block the overtake safe in the knowledge that you're going to hit the other driver then you're trying to take them out.ELUSIVEJIM said:
Anyone defending Hill needs a few reminders.
Hill was guilty of hitting Schumacher on many more occasions
Hill/Schumacher crash in Silverstone 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_CdcAdAjE
M.Schumacher Hill crash - F1 Monza 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mWw78WrJpc
Oh and Hill being a proper sportsman
Lapped Hill Holds Up Schumacher at Suzuka 1997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxu8LIzeNHY
The first two were driving errors committed because Hill was under pressure and over driving the car knowing his chances of the title were slipping away, they were intentional or malicious.Hill was guilty of hitting Schumacher on many more occasions
Hill/Schumacher crash in Silverstone 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_CdcAdAjE
M.Schumacher Hill crash - F1 Monza 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mWw78WrJpc
Oh and Hill being a proper sportsman
Lapped Hill Holds Up Schumacher at Suzuka 1997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxu8LIzeNHY
The third video is blatant mind, and he f
ked about with him in Canada in 1998 by moving more times than was allowed.Damon knew how to be a t
t if he needed to but to claim the first two at least are anything against his moral compass is silly IMO, they were just bad errors of judgement.It seems to be a German arrogance thing IMO!
MS knew that was never going to work.
NR won the title once, but bottled it by quitting!
SV crashes into the car in front of him last year while the Safety Car was on the track.
NH got it a bit wrong at Spa last Sunday.
It hasn't ended too well for most of them though has it?
MS knew that was never going to work.
NR won the title once, but bottled it by quitting!
SV crashes into the car in front of him last year while the Safety Car was on the track.
NH got it a bit wrong at Spa last Sunday.
It hasn't ended too well for most of them though has it?
Mr Tidy said:
It hasn't ended too well for most of them though has it?
I am hoping that comment is not aimed at Schumacher's current predicament, I shall assume not in which caseSchumacher has 7 world championships and is a multi millionaire
Vettel has 4 world championships and is a multi millionaire
Rosberg has a world championship and is a multi millionaire
Hulkenberg gets to drive F1 cars and is probably a millionaire
If that's your definition of not ending well....
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Anyone defending Hill needs a few reminders.
Hill was guilty of hitting Schumacher on many more occasions
Hill/Schumacher crash in Silverstone 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_CdcAdAjE
M.Schumacher Hill crash - F1 Monza 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mWw78WrJpc
Oh and Hill being a proper sportsman
Lapped Hill Holds Up Schumacher at Suzuka 1997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxu8LIzeNHY
tbf to Damon, if someone cost me a WDC i'd be crashing into them or making their life a misery at every single race thereafter ...so those 3 incidents seems quite tame retaliation to meHill was guilty of hitting Schumacher on many more occasions
Hill/Schumacher crash in Silverstone 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_CdcAdAjE
M.Schumacher Hill crash - F1 Monza 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mWw78WrJpc
Oh and Hill being a proper sportsman
Lapped Hill Holds Up Schumacher at Suzuka 1997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxu8LIzeNHY
& can you imagine the fallout if it had been Senna in that Williams instead!
Edited by angrymoby on Wednesday 29th August 10:06
angrymoby said:
tbf to Damon, if someone cost me a WDC i'd be crashing into them or making their life a misery at every single race thereafter ...so those 3 incidents seems quite tame to me
I still find it quite unbelievable that people still state that Schumacher took Damon out.Damon attempted a move that was just never going to work out.
But for the Damon fans, he finally got his Championship when Schumacher was driving a red bus
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