HAAS - Grosjean Floor
Discussion
I've just seen they are appealing the decision.
Timeline seems to be
During summer break their floor was deemed to be illegal and they were told to change it by Monza in 3 weeks time.
Raced with the floor (i expect) in Spa (not protested)
Raced with the floor in Monza and protested by Renault
Their defence seems to be they didnt have time to make a legal floor in time for Monza.
Another team, not named also had the same issue but rectified it in time for Monza.
Now i don't see what ground they have to appeal given they did race with an illegal floor.
What concerns me most is that the FIA allowed them to race with it once it was declared illegal, surely if the floor is declared illegal and its not changed it should be illegal for all future races as a minimum. Allowing the team to race with a future fix it is surely the wrong message to be sending! I expect the FIA fix it by Monza message prevented the floor being protested in Spa.
Harsh but for racing a floor they knew was illegal I think they should be excluded from all races they used it. Given it was declared illegal over the summer means it would have been used at least as far back as Hungary.
edit to add: thats 2 teams given a pass to run illegal parts, i wonder how many teams are actually within the regulations.
Timeline seems to be
During summer break their floor was deemed to be illegal and they were told to change it by Monza in 3 weeks time.
Raced with the floor (i expect) in Spa (not protested)
Raced with the floor in Monza and protested by Renault
Their defence seems to be they didnt have time to make a legal floor in time for Monza.
Another team, not named also had the same issue but rectified it in time for Monza.
Now i don't see what ground they have to appeal given they did race with an illegal floor.
What concerns me most is that the FIA allowed them to race with it once it was declared illegal, surely if the floor is declared illegal and its not changed it should be illegal for all future races as a minimum. Allowing the team to race with a future fix it is surely the wrong message to be sending! I expect the FIA fix it by Monza message prevented the floor being protested in Spa.
Harsh but for racing a floor they knew was illegal I think they should be excluded from all races they used it. Given it was declared illegal over the summer means it would have been used at least as far back as Hungary.
edit to add: thats 2 teams given a pass to run illegal parts, i wonder how many teams are actually within the regulations.
Edited by andburg on Monday 3rd September 09:48
as with a lot of things in F1 it wasn't directly against the rules until a mid season technical clarification was made. The original parts were made with an available loophole in the rules, that was closed mid season and the team claim it didn't give enough notice for them to manufacture parts.
[quote=andburg]
edit to add: thats 2 teams given a pass to run illegal parts, i wonder how many teams are actually within the regulations.
make that 3, Ferrari had illegal wing mirrors which were protested and forced to change. interestingly with no points deduction
edit to add: thats 2 teams given a pass to run illegal parts, i wonder how many teams are actually within the regulations.
Edited by andburg on Monday 3rd September 09:48
[/quotemake that 3, Ferrari had illegal wing mirrors which were protested and forced to change. interestingly with no points deduction
37chevy]ndburg said:
edit to add: thats 2 teams given a pass to run illegal parts, i wonder how many teams are actually within the regulations.
make that 3, Ferrari had illegal wing mirrors which were protested and forced to change. interestingly with no points deduction
Again, was that not that they pushed the limits of the rules and were only made illegal after a new technical regulation from the FIA, since the team had found a way round the existing rules. Its the way of F1 to push to the very limit of the rules. Edited by andburg on Monday 3rd September 09:48
[/quotemake that 3, Ferrari had illegal wing mirrors which were protested and forced to change. interestingly with no points deduction
Heartworm said:
Again, was that not that they pushed the limits of the rules and were only made illegal after a new technical regulation from the FIA, since the team had found a way round the existing rules. Its the way of F1 to push to the very limit of the rules.
yes think it falls under the whole technical directive thing....same as the floors...basically they weren't within the spirit of the rules or what ever...so the FIA clarified. I kind of like this way of doing things rather than deeming it illegal and just disqualifying a car on the spot. with rules so complex youd probably spend more time in the stewards room than on the trackI'm a bit confused. It seems that Haas's defense was that they couldn't get the part produced in time yet according to various sources online they ran a compliant floor in Spa free practice then switched back to the old one for the race... if they couldn't get the part produced in time how did they run it at Spa?
kambites said:
I'm a bit confused. It seems that Haas's defense was that they couldn't get the part produced in time yet according to various sources online they ran a compliant floor in Spa free practice then switched back to the old one for the race... if they couldn't get the part produced in time how did they run it at Spa?
I think they had 1 made in time, used by magnussan, Heartworm said:
kambites said:
I'm a bit confused. It seems that Haas's defense was that they couldn't get the part produced in time yet according to various sources online they ran a compliant floor in Spa free practice then switched back to the old one for the race... if they couldn't get the part produced in time how did they run it at Spa?
I think they had 1 made in time, used by magnussan, What happened to Magnussan to put him right at the back? I missed that somehow.
kambites said:
Heartworm said:
kambites said:
I'm a bit confused. It seems that Haas's defense was that they couldn't get the part produced in time yet according to various sources online they ran a compliant floor in Spa free practice then switched back to the old one for the race... if they couldn't get the part produced in time how did they run it at Spa?
I think they had 1 made in time, used by magnussan, What happened to Magnussan to put him right at the back? I missed that somehow.
kambites said:
Heartworm said:
kambites said:
I'm a bit confused. It seems that Haas's defense was that they couldn't get the part produced in time yet according to various sources online they ran a compliant floor in Spa free practice then switched back to the old one for the race... if they couldn't get the part produced in time how did they run it at Spa?
I think they had 1 made in time, used by magnussan, What happened to Magnussan to put him right at the back? I missed that somehow.
andburg said:
Their defence seems to be they didnt have time to make a legal floor in time for Monza.
Another team, not named also had the same issue but rectified it in time for Monza.
Now i don't see what ground they have to appeal given they did race with an illegal floor.
What concerns me most is that the FIA allowed them to race with it once it was declared illegal, surely if the floor is declared illegal and its not changed it should be illegal for all future races as a minimum.
The Amazon fly-on-the-wall McLaren documentary showed that even a team of McLaren's size was reliant on an external supplier to make the floor and then took a huge amount of time to prepare it for fitting to the car (McLaren missed the first pre-season test in 2017 because of it).Another team, not named also had the same issue but rectified it in time for Monza.
Now i don't see what ground they have to appeal given they did race with an illegal floor.
What concerns me most is that the FIA allowed them to race with it once it was declared illegal, surely if the floor is declared illegal and its not changed it should be illegal for all future races as a minimum.
Perhaps the floor is an item with a long lead time and the FIA was prepared to allow it rather than lose Haas from the grid for a few races.
ralphrj said:
Perhaps the floor is an item with a long lead time and the FIA was prepared to allow it rather than lose Haas from the grid for a few races.
It does take a while, but their supplier wouldn't be bound by the shutdown, and hence had weeks to prepare a new floor.I suspect they concluded that they couldn't specifically be penalised as it was a technical directive, and plumped with the wrong choice.
It's not just production time, its design time too. Haas don't have many(any?) of their own designers, they rely on Dallara and Ferrari for the design and production work. They don't have the capacity to react to directives and changes as quick as the other teams.
That's their own fault though, you can't be allowed to run an illegal car just because you wanted to sneak into the top 4 on the cheap.
That's their own fault though, you can't be allowed to run an illegal car just because you wanted to sneak into the top 4 on the cheap.
This is as good an explanation as I've seen for the exclusion (Autosport YT): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48fttPKFDKY
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