F1 2021 concept car image leaked

F1 2021 concept car image leaked

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Discussion

Salamura

522 posts

81 months

Thursday 13th September 2018
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Not too keen on the shrouded rear wheels, I can't really see the need for that. But not too bad, especially compared to some of the monstrosities of 2007-2008.

Eric Mc

122,005 posts

265 months

Thursday 13th September 2018
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dr_gn said:
Wing end plate design has always been critical to the airflow over the rest of the car. The vortices generated around the front wing ends have no doubt been the subject of many thousands of hours of analysis. The image of the Ferrari is just an image.
The important thing is how truthful it will be to what eventually transpires. I would like to know the purpose of those upturned winglets as they are different to what we have seen before. We haven't seen end plates like on that McLaren for decades now - the more normal end of front wing these days is a very complex device with multi-plane mini wing type protuberances which, as you say, are about manipulating airflow, usually around the side pods and tyres.

Upturned wingtips can't be about extending range or fuel burn - as they are on aircraft.


IforB

9,840 posts

229 months

Thursday 13th September 2018
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Eric Mc said:
The important thing is how truthful it will be to what eventually transpires. I would like to know the purpose of those upturned winglets as they are different to what we have seen before. We haven't seen end plates like on that McLaren for decades now - the more normal end of front wing these days is a very complex device with multi-plane mini wing type protuberances which, as you say, are about manipulating airflow, usually around the side pods and tyres.

Upturned wingtips can't be about extending range or fuel burn - as they are on aircraft.
Upturned winglets on aircraft are not about extending range or reducing fuel burn. That is simply a consequence of fitting them. What they do is to either reduce wing tip vortices and increase the effective aspect ratio of the wing.

The fact that this reduces fuel burn is why they get fitted, but the effect of them is equally as beneficial to an F1 car, but for a different reason.

Smollet

10,557 posts

190 months

Thursday 13th September 2018
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I rather like it. The current Indy car is a quantum leap over the previous offering in terms of aesthetics. Hopefully F1 can follow suit

sparta6

3,694 posts

100 months

Thursday 13th September 2018
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Matthen said:
The wheels are coming in size at least (although I doubt the alloys will look like that...) - it's a good thing IMO. More relevant to road car technology, and also allows makes the suspension setup far more important than it is at present. Should hopefully add variance to the result of races, as teams try different setups.
yes, although hitting kerbs with lower profile tyres isn't always a good thing

thegreenhell

15,323 posts

219 months

Thursday 13th September 2018
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Smollet said:
I rather like it. The current Indy car is a quantum leap over the previous offering in terms of aesthetics. Hopefully F1 can follow suit
It's much easier to achieve in a spec chassis series such as Indycar. F1 cars have never ended up looking as envisioned when the rules were written.

Smollet

10,557 posts

190 months

Thursday 13th September 2018
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
Smollet said:
I rather like it. The current Indy car is a quantum leap over the previous offering in terms of aesthetics. Hopefully F1 can follow suit
It's much easier to achieve in a spec chassis series such as Indycar. F1 cars have never ended up looking as envisioned when the rules were written.
The rules are too restrictive so they do tend to end up looking the same. F1 until probably the early 80s was less so with the result the cars looked quite different yet were similar in performance. I think the current rules stifle innovation.

kambites

67,556 posts

221 months

Thursday 13th September 2018
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I thought the front wing end plates were basically going to be spec items?

Nampahc Niloc

910 posts

78 months

Thursday 13th September 2018
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Adrian Newey explains the reason for winglets quite well (in simple terms) in “How to build a car”.

They prevent the high pressure air above the wing “leaking” over the edge into the low pressure zone below, which would have the effect of reducing the pressure difference and hence reduce down force.

thegreenhell

15,323 posts

219 months

Thursday 13th September 2018
quotequote all
Smollet said:
thegreenhell said:
Smollet said:
I rather like it. The current Indy car is a quantum leap over the previous offering in terms of aesthetics. Hopefully F1 can follow suit
It's much easier to achieve in a spec chassis series such as Indycar. F1 cars have never ended up looking as envisioned when the rules were written.
The rules are too restrictive so they do tend to end up looking the same. F1 until probably the early 80s was less so with the result the cars looked quite different yet were similar in performance. I think the current rules stifle innovation.
Looking the same, yes, just not looking as the rulemakers intended. Just look at T-wings, dildo noses and stepped-top chassis as examples of the unintended consequences of poorly-written rules.

anonymous-user

54 months

Thursday 13th September 2018
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That looks awesome!

NotStig

636 posts

227 months

Thursday 13th September 2018
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I'd love to see concept 1.

I'd hope that because F1 has finally got a team of people involved, including Ross Brawn, any unintended loopholes will be quite small. In my uneducated opinion the front wing end plates are to reduce the outwash vortices that have been discussed so much recently, which might improve the ability of the car behind to stay there when cornering. Both wings look much simpler so hopefully will reduce the wake the current cars produce and improve the racing. Which, after all, is the point.

Problem is, the teams now have 3 years to try to claw back all of the lost downforce.

Eric Mc

122,005 posts

265 months

Thursday 13th September 2018
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IforB said:
Upturned winglets on aircraft are not about extending range or reducing fuel burn.

The fact that this reduces fuel burn is why they get fitted,
Hmmmm... I'm trying to work this one out.


Eric Mc

122,005 posts

265 months

Thursday 13th September 2018
quotequote all
Nampahc Niloc said:
Adrian Newey explains the reason for winglets quite well (in simple terms) in “How to build a car”.

They prevent the high pressure air above the wing “leaking” over the edge into the low pressure zone below, which would have the effect of reducing the pressure difference and hence reduce down force.
We've not seen these "!swoop up" type winglets before - except on aircraft.

Oilchange

8,460 posts

260 months

Thursday 13th September 2018
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I think staying with 13” wheels is a must, the teams all seem to agree on thus as far as I know. 18” wheels on an F1 car look crap imo.

mcdjl

5,446 posts

195 months

Friday 14th September 2018
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Eric Mc said:
IforB said:
Upturned winglets on aircraft are not about extending range or reducing fuel burn.

The fact that this reduces fuel burn is why they get fitted,
Hmmmm... I'm trying to work this one out.
They're about managing the airflow over the wing tips better. They effectively 'trap' the vortices and use them to generate extra lift without adding wing length or drag. Thus to get the same lift you get less drag with them. This has the by product of requiring less fuel burn to get the lift. If they added to fuel burn, despite the extra lift they wouldn't be used.
In F1 they'll be doing similar but also tidying up the air before it hits the next surface in its path to make that more predictable.
  • when nasa were first trying winglets the theory was that ones pointing down would be best, followed by symmetrical ones. Practicalities and the real world said otherwise.

Kraken

1,710 posts

200 months

Friday 14th September 2018
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Oilchange said:
I think staying with 13” wheels is a must, the teams all seem to agree on thus as far as I know. 18” wheels on an F1 car look crap imo.
18" wheels are definitely happening and there is a push for them to happen a year earlier as otherwise it would be a massive expense for whoever wins the tyre contract.

IforB

9,840 posts

229 months

Friday 14th September 2018
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Eric Mc said:
IforB said:
Upturned winglets on aircraft are not about extending range or reducing fuel burn.

The fact that this reduces fuel burn is why they get fitted,
Hmmmm... I'm trying to work this one out.
It is called cause and effect.

You are describing the end benefits for airliners and then saying you don't understand why an F1 car would care about those. I am saying that aircraft use the principle for one reason and F1 cars use the same principle for another benefit.

What actually happens is the same, but why F1 or aircraft designers use them is different.

dr_gn

16,160 posts

184 months

Friday 14th September 2018
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mcdjl said:
Eric Mc said:
IforB said:
Upturned winglets on aircraft are not about extending range or reducing fuel burn.

The fact that this reduces fuel burn is why they get fitted,
Hmmmm... I'm trying to work this one out.
They're about managing the airflow over the wing tips better. They effectively 'trap' the vortices and use them to generate extra lift without adding wing length or drag. Thus to get the same lift you get less drag with them. This has the by product of requiring less fuel burn to get the lift. If they added to fuel burn, despite the extra lift they wouldn't be used.
In F1 they'll be doing similar but also tidying up the air before it hits the next surface in its path to make that more predictable.
  • when nasa were first trying winglets the theory was that ones pointing down would be best, followed by symmetrical ones. Practicalities and the real world said otherwise.
I think it's just artistic license, and they're shown like that simply because they're different to what we have now.

Eric Mc

122,005 posts

265 months

Friday 14th September 2018
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That was my thought too. That's why my first comment was about how close to this look would the eventual REAL cars be.