F1 2021 concept car image leaked
Discussion
dr_gn said:
Wing end plate design has always been critical to the airflow over the rest of the car. The vortices generated around the front wing ends have no doubt been the subject of many thousands of hours of analysis. The image of the Ferrari is just an image.
The important thing is how truthful it will be to what eventually transpires. I would like to know the purpose of those upturned winglets as they are different to what we have seen before. We haven't seen end plates like on that McLaren for decades now - the more normal end of front wing these days is a very complex device with multi-plane mini wing type protuberances which, as you say, are about manipulating airflow, usually around the side pods and tyres.Upturned wingtips can't be about extending range or fuel burn - as they are on aircraft.
Eric Mc said:
The important thing is how truthful it will be to what eventually transpires. I would like to know the purpose of those upturned winglets as they are different to what we have seen before. We haven't seen end plates like on that McLaren for decades now - the more normal end of front wing these days is a very complex device with multi-plane mini wing type protuberances which, as you say, are about manipulating airflow, usually around the side pods and tyres.
Upturned wingtips can't be about extending range or fuel burn - as they are on aircraft.
Upturned winglets on aircraft are not about extending range or reducing fuel burn. That is simply a consequence of fitting them. What they do is to either reduce wing tip vortices and increase the effective aspect ratio of the wing.Upturned wingtips can't be about extending range or fuel burn - as they are on aircraft.
The fact that this reduces fuel burn is why they get fitted, but the effect of them is equally as beneficial to an F1 car, but for a different reason.
Matthen said:
The wheels are coming in size at least (although I doubt the alloys will look like that...) - it's a good thing IMO. More relevant to road car technology, and also allows makes the suspension setup far more important than it is at present. Should hopefully add variance to the result of races, as teams try different setups.
yes, although hitting kerbs with lower profile tyres isn't always a good thingSmollet said:
I rather like it. The current Indy car is a quantum leap over the previous offering in terms of aesthetics. Hopefully F1 can follow suit
It's much easier to achieve in a spec chassis series such as Indycar. F1 cars have never ended up looking as envisioned when the rules were written.thegreenhell said:
Smollet said:
I rather like it. The current Indy car is a quantum leap over the previous offering in terms of aesthetics. Hopefully F1 can follow suit
It's much easier to achieve in a spec chassis series such as Indycar. F1 cars have never ended up looking as envisioned when the rules were written.Adrian Newey explains the reason for winglets quite well (in simple terms) in “How to build a car”.
They prevent the high pressure air above the wing “leaking” over the edge into the low pressure zone below, which would have the effect of reducing the pressure difference and hence reduce down force.
They prevent the high pressure air above the wing “leaking” over the edge into the low pressure zone below, which would have the effect of reducing the pressure difference and hence reduce down force.
Smollet said:
thegreenhell said:
Smollet said:
I rather like it. The current Indy car is a quantum leap over the previous offering in terms of aesthetics. Hopefully F1 can follow suit
It's much easier to achieve in a spec chassis series such as Indycar. F1 cars have never ended up looking as envisioned when the rules were written.I'd love to see concept 1.
I'd hope that because F1 has finally got a team of people involved, including Ross Brawn, any unintended loopholes will be quite small. In my uneducated opinion the front wing end plates are to reduce the outwash vortices that have been discussed so much recently, which might improve the ability of the car behind to stay there when cornering. Both wings look much simpler so hopefully will reduce the wake the current cars produce and improve the racing. Which, after all, is the point.
Problem is, the teams now have 3 years to try to claw back all of the lost downforce.
I'd hope that because F1 has finally got a team of people involved, including Ross Brawn, any unintended loopholes will be quite small. In my uneducated opinion the front wing end plates are to reduce the outwash vortices that have been discussed so much recently, which might improve the ability of the car behind to stay there when cornering. Both wings look much simpler so hopefully will reduce the wake the current cars produce and improve the racing. Which, after all, is the point.
Problem is, the teams now have 3 years to try to claw back all of the lost downforce.
Nampahc Niloc said:
Adrian Newey explains the reason for winglets quite well (in simple terms) in “How to build a car”.
They prevent the high pressure air above the wing “leaking” over the edge into the low pressure zone below, which would have the effect of reducing the pressure difference and hence reduce down force.
We've not seen these "!swoop up" type winglets before - except on aircraft.They prevent the high pressure air above the wing “leaking” over the edge into the low pressure zone below, which would have the effect of reducing the pressure difference and hence reduce down force.
Eric Mc said:
IforB said:
Upturned winglets on aircraft are not about extending range or reducing fuel burn.
The fact that this reduces fuel burn is why they get fitted,
Hmmmm... I'm trying to work this one out.The fact that this reduces fuel burn is why they get fitted,
In F1 they'll be doing similar but also tidying up the air before it hits the next surface in its path to make that more predictable.
- when nasa were first trying winglets the theory was that ones pointing down would be best, followed by symmetrical ones. Practicalities and the real world said otherwise.
Oilchange said:
I think staying with 13” wheels is a must, the teams all seem to agree on thus as far as I know. 18” wheels on an F1 car look crap imo.
18" wheels are definitely happening and there is a push for them to happen a year earlier as otherwise it would be a massive expense for whoever wins the tyre contract.Eric Mc said:
IforB said:
Upturned winglets on aircraft are not about extending range or reducing fuel burn.
The fact that this reduces fuel burn is why they get fitted,
Hmmmm... I'm trying to work this one out.The fact that this reduces fuel burn is why they get fitted,
You are describing the end benefits for airliners and then saying you don't understand why an F1 car would care about those. I am saying that aircraft use the principle for one reason and F1 cars use the same principle for another benefit.
What actually happens is the same, but why F1 or aircraft designers use them is different.
mcdjl said:
Eric Mc said:
IforB said:
Upturned winglets on aircraft are not about extending range or reducing fuel burn.
The fact that this reduces fuel burn is why they get fitted,
Hmmmm... I'm trying to work this one out.The fact that this reduces fuel burn is why they get fitted,
In F1 they'll be doing similar but also tidying up the air before it hits the next surface in its path to make that more predictable.
- when nasa were first trying winglets the theory was that ones pointing down would be best, followed by symmetrical ones. Practicalities and the real world said otherwise.
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