Discussion
732NM said:
Russell, Leclerc and Norris are tier 2 drivers IMHO
Fred has not maintained his level, so drops to that level also.
Max cant race wheel to wheel.
Lewis is head and shoulders above the rest as a racer, he has lost a bit of his raw speed for qualy.
The perfect driver doesn't exist, currently. They can all be criticised for something.Fred has not maintained his level, so drops to that level also.
Max cant race wheel to wheel.
Lewis is head and shoulders above the rest as a racer, he has lost a bit of his raw speed for qualy.
paulguitar said:
Did he win one, in a straight fight, over Hakkinen, with no 'odd' circumstances, or mechanical issues? It's a pretty straightforward question, I'm heading out for an hour so don't have time to remind myself right now. But I will do some reading when I get back, if you can remember a race where he did that I will look it up.
More than once. Enjoy your reading.thegreenhell said:
paulguitar said:
Did he win one, in a straight fight, over Hakkinen, with no 'odd' circumstances, or mechanical issues? It's a pretty straightforward question, I'm heading out for an hour so don't have time to remind myself right now. But I will do some reading when I get back, if you can remember a race where he did that I will look it up.
More than once. Enjoy your reading.732NM said:
Russell, Leclerc and Norris are tier 2 drivers IMHO
Fred has not maintained his level, so drops to that level also.
Max cant race wheel to wheel.
Lewis is head and shoulders above the rest as a racer, he has lost a bit of his raw speed for qualy.
Agree with this - LH should be on 10 x WDC’s having lost 2007, 2016 and 2021 by a whisker. Fred has not maintained his level, so drops to that level also.
Max cant race wheel to wheel.
Lewis is head and shoulders above the rest as a racer, he has lost a bit of his raw speed for qualy.
If Max continues his struggles through the end of this season and next folk will doubt his stock as a hall of famer, I mean the man has 60 race wins. How did that happen?
Lando is slightly ahead of Russell & Charles in my view. I’d out him on a level with Max.
I read (or watched) something in the last couple of days that said Lando should have maintained his line allowing Oscar to crash into him.
The point made was this would have likely been attributed to Oscar and he would have been seen to hurt/cost the team, forcing Mclaren to take action and make the difficult decisions they have been avoiding.
It would have been a clever way of establishing himself without wrecking his nice guy image. Although not sure how easy that is to do during a race let alone at the start!
The point made was this would have likely been attributed to Oscar and he would have been seen to hurt/cost the team, forcing Mclaren to take action and make the difficult decisions they have been avoiding.
It would have been a clever way of establishing himself without wrecking his nice guy image. Although not sure how easy that is to do during a race let alone at the start!
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
thegreenhell said:
paulguitar said:
Did he win one, in a straight fight, over Hakkinen, with no 'odd' circumstances, or mechanical issues? It's a pretty straightforward question, I'm heading out for an hour so don't have time to remind myself right now. But I will do some reading when I get back, if you can remember a race where he did that I will look it up.
More than once. Enjoy your reading.paulguitar said:
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
thegreenhell said:
paulguitar said:
Did he win one, in a straight fight, over Hakkinen, with no 'odd' circumstances, or mechanical issues? It's a pretty straightforward question, I'm heading out for an hour so don't have time to remind myself right now. But I will do some reading when I get back, if you can remember a race where he did that I will look it up.
More than once. Enjoy your reading.maz8062 said:
732NM said:
Russell, Leclerc and Norris are tier 2 drivers IMHO
Fred has not maintained his level, so drops to that level also.
Max cant race wheel to wheel.
Lewis is head and shoulders above the rest as a racer, he has lost a bit of his raw speed for qualy.
Agree with this - LH should be on 10 x WDC’s having lost 2007, 2016 and 2021 by a whisker. Fred has not maintained his level, so drops to that level also.
Max cant race wheel to wheel.
Lewis is head and shoulders above the rest as a racer, he has lost a bit of his raw speed for qualy.
If Max continues his struggles through the end of this season and next folk will doubt his stock as a hall of famer, I mean the man has 60 race wins. How did that happen?
Lando is slightly ahead of Russell & Charles in my view. I’d out him on a level with Max.
WilsonWilson said:
I read (or watched) something in the last couple of days that said Lando should have maintained his line allowing Oscar to crash into him.
The point made was this would have likely been attributed to Oscar and he would have been seen to hurt/cost the team, forcing Mclaren to take action and make the difficult decisions they have been avoiding.
It would have been a clever way of establishing himself without wrecking his nice guy image. Although not sure how easy that is to do during a race let alone at the start!
Probably a tweet from Max, the line Norris could have used is "that's what happens when you don't leave the space!" The point made was this would have likely been attributed to Oscar and he would have been seen to hurt/cost the team, forcing Mclaren to take action and make the difficult decisions they have been avoiding.
It would have been a clever way of establishing himself without wrecking his nice guy image. Although not sure how easy that is to do during a race let alone at the start!
And we all remember Nico admitting to puncturing Lewis tyre at Spa, in a fit of frustration, they may well come together at some point.
MustangGT said:
maz8062 said:
732NM said:
Russell, Leclerc and Norris are tier 2 drivers IMHO
Fred has not maintained his level, so drops to that level also.
Max cant race wheel to wheel.
Lewis is head and shoulders above the rest as a racer, he has lost a bit of his raw speed for qualy.
Agree with this - LH should be on 10 x WDC’s having lost 2007, 2016 and 2021 by a whisker. Fred has not maintained his level, so drops to that level also.
Max cant race wheel to wheel.
Lewis is head and shoulders above the rest as a racer, he has lost a bit of his raw speed for qualy.
If Max continues his struggles through the end of this season and next folk will doubt his stock as a hall of famer, I mean the man has 60 race wins. How did that happen?
Lando is slightly ahead of Russell & Charles in my view. I’d out him on a level with Max.
Too many people suggest Lando is past it because Piastri's had a better race or Russell's crap because his cars too light or Leclerc's not world class because he's a little emotional.
You can't put Norris or Russell in the same camp as Alonso, that's silly, they have yet to prove themselves capable of reaching his achievements regardless of where he is or isn't on the scale today.
I can't give Max the plaudits his stats deserve because of the way he went about it, same as Vettel's 4 WDC don't seem to afford him legend status but for different reasons.
Norris/Russell/Leclerc/Piastri all have to prove that they are better than a top team driver that can win a few races, there have been many of those over the years like Coulthard/Webber/Barricello/Bottas etc....but that's still one hell of a achievement, people are too quick to elevate drivers these days.
One driver that doesn't get the recognition he deserves is Rosberg, he beat the best, at his best, in the same car now that was a feat.
Out of the 4 I'd say if the stars aligned Leclerc would be most likely to win as I feel he has an edge over the others in pure speed and attitude to risk that I feel the others lack, can't wait to see how it pans out next year at Ferrari.
I can't give Max the plaudits his stats deserve because of the way he went about it, same as Vettel's 4 WDC don't seem to afford him legend status but for different reasons.
Norris/Russell/Leclerc/Piastri all have to prove that they are better than a top team driver that can win a few races, there have been many of those over the years like Coulthard/Webber/Barricello/Bottas etc....but that's still one hell of a achievement, people are too quick to elevate drivers these days.
One driver that doesn't get the recognition he deserves is Rosberg, he beat the best, at his best, in the same car now that was a feat.
Out of the 4 I'd say if the stars aligned Leclerc would be most likely to win as I feel he has an edge over the others in pure speed and attitude to risk that I feel the others lack, can't wait to see how it pans out next year at Ferrari.
Wills2 said:
One driver that doesn't get the recognition he deserves is Rosberg, he beat the best, at his best, in the same car now that was a feat.
Out of the 4 I'd say if the stars aligned Leclerc would be most likely to win as I feel he has an edge over the others in pure speed and attitude to risk that I feel the others lack, can't wait to see how it pans out next year at Ferrari.
Rosberg is a very interesting one. I think based on pure talent he would be "tier 2" at best all day long. But he did something which a lot of people are unwilling to do. He dedicated himself absolutely and completely, mentally and physically for that 1 year. For that he was rewarded with beating one of the very best in his prime. That year was truly an all or nothing year and for that I personally believe he has cemented himself in history. As much as Button and Kimi are / were 2 of my favourite drivers, I respect Rosbergs WDC much more than theirs.Out of the 4 I'd say if the stars aligned Leclerc would be most likely to win as I feel he has an edge over the others in pure speed and attitude to risk that I feel the others lack, can't wait to see how it pans out next year at Ferrari.
Wills2 said:
Out of the 4 I'd say if the stars aligned Leclerc would be most likely to win as I feel he has an edge over the others in pure speed and attitude to risk that I feel the others lack, can't wait to see how it pans out next year at Ferrari.
If the stars were aligned any of those 4 would be likely to be winning a championship. IMO it's impossible to say at the moment, beyond simple favouritism for a particular driver, whom out of that lot would likely to prove the 'best'. They have all proven fallible but also that they are capable of some excellent races. Neither has been terribly consistent either. Piastri potentially has the most to improve given it's only his 2nd season but he's even more unproven and has not managed to show he's definitively better than his team-mate nevermind the others. I think Piastri is a better bet for a drivers championship than Norris and Norris has worked it out.Piastri is only in his 2nd season of F1 and the last few (5 i think) races has scored more points than anyone else.That tells me he has found his feet and worked out how to win in an F1 car.Apart from a brave and lucky decision by Ferrari last weekend, Piastri had everyone covered and dove an excellent race, he showed better race craft than I've seen from Norris so far.
I think Mclaren have also worked out that Piastri is their ticket to the WDC not Norris.Next season will see Piastri as WDC, and I'm a Brit, so am not going on nationality or favouritism, I'd love to see George Russell as WDC and if Merc get the car sorted, that could be a possibility next year too.
This year i think Max will scrape the WDC and McLaren will bag the WCC.
I think Mclaren have also worked out that Piastri is their ticket to the WDC not Norris.Next season will see Piastri as WDC, and I'm a Brit, so am not going on nationality or favouritism, I'd love to see George Russell as WDC and if Merc get the car sorted, that could be a possibility next year too.
This year i think Max will scrape the WDC and McLaren will bag the WCC.
grumpynuts said:
I think Piastri is a better bet for a drivers championship than Norris and Norris has worked it out.Piastri is only in his 2nd season of F1 and the last few (5 i think) races has scored more points than anyone else.That tells me he has found his feet and worked out how to win in an F1 car.Apart from a brave and lucky decision by Ferrari last weekend, Piastri had everyone covered and dove an excellent race, he showed better race craft than I've seen from Norris so far.
Piastri also still had races (Zandvoort) where he got absolutely thumped by Norris. Plus Norris is well ahead in qualifying nevermind on points for the year. If one believes that Norris is a top tier driver (and think that's entirely reasonable to think so), Piastri doing what he's done to increasingly run Norris close if not beat him at times is impressive but it is far from convincing that he will necessarily be the better driver in future. He needs to be getting on top of Norris regularly to justify that - he just hasn't done so yet. paulguitar said:
isaldiri said:
paulguitar said:
Did Coulthard ever win a race truly on merit?
Are you seriously asking that......? like every one of his F1 races he won in your opinion were handed to him on a plate and not achieved on merit? I'd be damned.... I recall DC winning a couple of Monaco and Australian GPs where he was absolutely unbeatable and on it.
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