Discussion
maz8062 said:
Nico speculating that OP has a number 1 driver clause in his contract and no stipulation to help Lando unless he chooses to. This being the case, it doesn’t bode well for Lando or McLaren and I wouldn’t be surprised if Lando is out of there at the earliest opportunity.
There's nowhere for him to go, and he's in a race-winning car now, regardless of who his teammate is. As long as he keeps his head he's in the best place already.isaldiri said:
shirt said:
That’s not the point I was making. Mclaren strategy was to give Lando first service (to cover le clerc?) knowing OP would retain the lead. In the second round of stops OP made a mistake meaning this was no longer the case. I can see how Lando then thought it was fair game, even though I disagree with his petulance in perusing it counter to what was being said on the radio.
My point being, it was OP’s mistake that brought the change in position, not the order of the stops themselves.
Well Piastri was still the race leader post mistake and therefore would retain preference in strategy. Even if the original idea was to get Norris in and out early without undercutting Piastri, the latter had track position and that gave him to right to be called in first so as to not get undercut by his team-mate. It's not track position such that you cannot be undercut that gives the leading driver preference.....My point being, it was OP’s mistake that brought the change in position, not the order of the stops themselves.
It was Lando on his in lap not Oscar. The latter had a 6+ sec advantage and lost about 4 secs due to the mistake. This was the difference between coming out ahead and being undercut, nothing else. You can’t change pitstop order that late in the lap else it would be circus time in the pit box.
Team orders shouldn’t be used to counter your lead drivers mistakes
shirt said:
Yes he was, but the stop order had already been decided. You can’t do what ifs around that sorry.
It was Lando on his in lap not Oscar. The latter had a 6+ sec advantage and lost about 4 secs due to the mistake. This was the difference between coming out ahead and being undercut, nothing else. You can’t change pitstop order that late in the lap else it would be circus time in the pit box.
Team orders shouldn’t be used to counter your lead drivers mistakes
So? your leading driver made a mistake but was far enough ahead than his team-mate such that he could retain his lead. Guess what - he still has priority for startegy as he's er... ahead. It was Lando on his in lap not Oscar. The latter had a 6+ sec advantage and lost about 4 secs due to the mistake. This was the difference between coming out ahead and being undercut, nothing else. You can’t change pitstop order that late in the lap else it would be circus time in the pit box.
Team orders shouldn’t be used to counter your lead drivers mistakes
Yea you keep saying that. Maybe soon you’ll realise I’m not arguing that point. That was a team decision and was fixed at that given point in the lap given they can’t put lando’s tyres on Oscar’s car.
The strategy would have still brought oscar out in front had he not lost it. I can see how Lando thought that changed the racing situation.
That’s all I said despite you trying to turn it into something more. clear enough now?
The strategy would have still brought oscar out in front had he not lost it. I can see how Lando thought that changed the racing situation.
That’s all I said despite you trying to turn it into something more. clear enough now?
shirt said:
Yea you keep saying that. Maybe soon you’ll realise I’m not arguing that point. That was a team decision and was fixed at that given point in the lap given they can’t put lando’s tyres on Oscar’s car.
The strategy would have still brought oscar out in front had he not lost it. I can see how Lando thought that changed the racing situation.
That’s all I said despite you trying to turn it into something more. clear enough now?
Piastri's mistake was on lap 33 that brought Norris much closer to him. It wasn't anywhere even close to being on the lap that Norris was being called in for his second stop (lap 45) so it absolutely wasn't fixed that Mclaren were so committed to a plan to pit Norris first that they couldn't have swapped for Piastri to pit first as was his right. The racing situation was that mistake or not, Piastri was leading and thus had priority for strategy. The strategy would have still brought oscar out in front had he not lost it. I can see how Lando thought that changed the racing situation.
That’s all I said despite you trying to turn it into something more. clear enough now?
If Norris thought Piastri losing a couple of seconds when ahead of him gives him the right to undercut his team-mate - well he'd better make sure he's not the one losing out in that kind of situation next time because you can be sure Piastri would do in return.
isaldiri said:
shirt said:
Yea you keep saying that. Maybe soon you’ll realise I’m not arguing that point. That was a team decision and was fixed at that given point in the lap given they can’t put lando’s tyres on Oscar’s car.
The strategy would have still brought oscar out in front had he not lost it. I can see how Lando thought that changed the racing situation.
That’s all I said despite you trying to turn it into something more. clear enough now?
Piastri's mistake was on lap 33 that brought Norris much closer to him. It wasn't anywhere even close to being on the lap that Norris was being called in for his second stop (lap 45) so it absolutely wasn't fixed that Mclaren were so committed to a plan to pit Norris first that they couldn't have swapped for Piastri to pit first as was his right. The racing situation was that mistake or not, Piastri was leading and thus had priority for strategy. The strategy would have still brought oscar out in front had he not lost it. I can see how Lando thought that changed the racing situation.
That’s all I said despite you trying to turn it into something more. clear enough now?
If Norris thought Piastri losing a couple of seconds when ahead of him gives him the right to undercut his team-mate - well he'd better make sure he's not the one losing out in that kind of situation next time because you can be sure Piastri would do in return.
More fool Lando for trusting Oscar and more fool McLaren. In some ways, I hope Ferrari takes the WCC, and I say that as a very, very long standing McLaren fan. They will only have themselves to blame.
Edited by Diderot on Saturday 7th September 00:36
isaldiri said:
Piastri's mistake was on lap 33 that brought Norris much closer to him. It wasn't anywhere even close to being on the lap that Norris was being called in for his second stop (lap 45) so it absolutely wasn't fixed that Mclaren were so committed to a plan to pit Norris first that they couldn't have swapped for Piastri to pit first as was his right. The racing situation was that mistake or not, Piastri was leading and thus had priority for strategy.
If Norris thought Piastri losing a couple of seconds when ahead of him gives him the right to undercut his team-mate - well he'd better make sure he's not the one losing out in that kind of situation next time because you can be sure Piastri would do in return.
No matter how you look at it, Lando was the faster driver at Hungary and but for extensive pleading, begging and guilt tripping to help OP get his first win, he would have won the race by a significant margin over OP. As it turns out Lando’s obvious reluctance to yield the position has shone a light on the ridiculousness of the request, the insincerity that he would need OP to help in the future and, most importantly, the uncomfortable power that OP, the slower driver of the 2, wields within the team.If Norris thought Piastri losing a couple of seconds when ahead of him gives him the right to undercut his team-mate - well he'd better make sure he's not the one losing out in that kind of situation next time because you can be sure Piastri would do in return.
I can see these 2 drivers crashing on track as neither is prepared to yield and both think they’re number 1 drivers when in reality, this season, only Lando should be. Losing both championships in the final reckoning would be a disaster unlikely to be the case had Siedl still been there.
On a separate note, it’s crazy how F1 pundits, so called pundits, appear sometimes to be out of touch with reality and obviously towing a party line, an agenda even. Nico now asserting that OP, despite being 44 points behind Lando and 100 plus behind Max, still has a chance of the WDC and shouldn’t be expected to help his teammate. This is an odd turnaround and definitely not what he was saying on tv just a week ago.
Oh well..
an agendamaz8062 said:
No matter how you look at it, Lando was the faster driver at Hungary and but for extensive pleading, begging and guilt tripping to help OP get his first win, he would have won the race by a significant margin over OP.
Yes the driver who was not able to take advantage of a sloppy lap where his team-mate gave up 3-4 seconds going off track to take the lead and was only able to take track position after the pit stops because his team handed an undercut to him on a plate was clearly the faster driver in the race.......Norris was faster in Hungary. He dropped places at the start and until he slowed to let Piastri past he was leading by ~6.6 seconds. How many seconds do you lot think the undercut was worth? It’s not a 10 second swing.
Piastri had clean air throughout, the same strategy give or take a lap, nonetheless he was in undercut range of Norris and once Norris was in front he extended that lead from about two seconds to about six and a half.
Piastri had clean air throughout, the same strategy give or take a lap, nonetheless he was in undercut range of Norris and once Norris was in front he extended that lead from about two seconds to about six and a half.
The challenge for Mac is Webber. He’s been there and done that and was a particularly ruthless and aggressive driver when in F1 - Vettel tamed him somewhat but he was a no nonsense kind of driver. Remember when he was at Jaguar with Justin Wilson (RIP) back in the day.
Anyway, Webber is in the McLaren garage on race day. He is making sure that his man is not getting shafted, I assume how he thinks he was. I’m guessing he was the one pushing for Lando to cede the position in Hungary and the same person being vocal for the team not to impose team orders at Monza. He has a lot of influence because he has somehow convinced Zak that Oscar is faster than Lando and is their best bet for a WDC. He’s not.
My view is that Webber has bigger plans for Oscar, plans that do not include a long stay at McLaren. He knows that his plans will be up in smoke if Lando is there next year as a WDC because he’ll then be holding the cards for 26 and beyond, not OP. Lando as a WDC will then be just as attractive as Max and LH and above Charles etc. Webber will implore OP to do all that he can to prevent it and that’s what we’re seeing now.
It’s going to be interesting but Lando needs to look out for himself and trust that the future will be ok regardless. He has pace.
Anyway, Webber is in the McLaren garage on race day. He is making sure that his man is not getting shafted, I assume how he thinks he was. I’m guessing he was the one pushing for Lando to cede the position in Hungary and the same person being vocal for the team not to impose team orders at Monza. He has a lot of influence because he has somehow convinced Zak that Oscar is faster than Lando and is their best bet for a WDC. He’s not.
My view is that Webber has bigger plans for Oscar, plans that do not include a long stay at McLaren. He knows that his plans will be up in smoke if Lando is there next year as a WDC because he’ll then be holding the cards for 26 and beyond, not OP. Lando as a WDC will then be just as attractive as Max and LH and above Charles etc. Webber will implore OP to do all that he can to prevent it and that’s what we’re seeing now.
It’s going to be interesting but Lando needs to look out for himself and trust that the future will be ok regardless. He has pace.
maz8062 said:
The challenge for Mac is Webber. He’s been there and done that and was a particularly ruthless and aggressive driver when in F1 - Vettel tamed him somewhat but he was a no nonsense kind of driver. Remember when he was at Jaguar with Justin Wilson (RIP) back in the day.
Anyway, Webber is in the McLaren garage on race day. He is making sure that his man is not getting shafted, I assume how he thinks he was. I’m guessing he was the one pushing for Lando to cede the position in Hungary and the same person being vocal for the team not to impose team orders at Monza. He has a lot of influence because he has somehow convinced Zak that Oscar is faster than Lando and is their best bet for a WDC. He’s not.
My view is that Webber has bigger plans for Oscar, plans that do not include a long stay at McLaren. He knows that his plans will be up in smoke if Lando is there next year as a WDC because he’ll then be holding the cards for 26 and beyond, not OP. Lando as a WDC will then be just as attractive as Max and LH and above Charles etc. Webber will implore OP to do all that he can to prevent it and that’s what we’re seeing now.
It’s going to be interesting but Lando needs to look out for himself and trust that the future will be ok regardless. He has pace.
The challenge for OP is Webber.Anyway, Webber is in the McLaren garage on race day. He is making sure that his man is not getting shafted, I assume how he thinks he was. I’m guessing he was the one pushing for Lando to cede the position in Hungary and the same person being vocal for the team not to impose team orders at Monza. He has a lot of influence because he has somehow convinced Zak that Oscar is faster than Lando and is their best bet for a WDC. He’s not.
My view is that Webber has bigger plans for Oscar, plans that do not include a long stay at McLaren. He knows that his plans will be up in smoke if Lando is there next year as a WDC because he’ll then be holding the cards for 26 and beyond, not OP. Lando as a WDC will then be just as attractive as Max and LH and above Charles etc. Webber will implore OP to do all that he can to prevent it and that’s what we’re seeing now.
It’s going to be interesting but Lando needs to look out for himself and trust that the future will be ok regardless. He has pace.
Webber was never quick enough or ruthless enough to ever be WDC.
He is trying to ensure OP doesn't fall into that trap, however, this season isn't the time to push that.
If Lando hadn't folded and let OP passed, he would still be searching for his first win; somehow that gifted win has made OP and Webber think that one win has made him a real contender and really hope OP and Webber don't screw up the potential for McLaren this season, and likewise Zak starts acting like a winning team principal.
maz8062 said:
The challenge for Mac is Webber. He’s been there and done that and was a particularly ruthless and aggressive driver when in F1 - Vettel tamed him somewhat but he was a no nonsense kind of driver. Remember when he was at Jaguar with Justin Wilson (RIP) back in the day.
Anyway, Webber is in the McLaren garage on race day. He is making sure that his man is not getting shafted, I assume how he thinks he was. I’m guessing he was the one pushing for Lando to cede the position in Hungary and the same person being vocal for the team not to impose team orders at Monza. He has a lot of influence because he has somehow convinced Zak that Oscar is faster than Lando and is their best bet for a WDC. He’s not.
My view is that Webber has bigger plans for Oscar, plans that do not include a long stay at McLaren. He knows that his plans will be up in smoke if Lando is there next year as a WDC because he’ll then be holding the cards for 26 and beyond, not OP. Lando as a WDC will then be just as attractive as Max and LH and above Charles etc. Webber will implore OP to do all that he can to prevent it and that’s what we’re seeing now.
It’s going to be interesting but Lando needs to look out for himself and trust that the future will be ok regardless. He has pace.
Right - it’s clear that you’re on a wind up and it does rather all your various posts. Well done for getting all the replies you had to indulge said wind up.Anyway, Webber is in the McLaren garage on race day. He is making sure that his man is not getting shafted, I assume how he thinks he was. I’m guessing he was the one pushing for Lando to cede the position in Hungary and the same person being vocal for the team not to impose team orders at Monza. He has a lot of influence because he has somehow convinced Zak that Oscar is faster than Lando and is their best bet for a WDC. He’s not.
My view is that Webber has bigger plans for Oscar, plans that do not include a long stay at McLaren. He knows that his plans will be up in smoke if Lando is there next year as a WDC because he’ll then be holding the cards for 26 and beyond, not OP. Lando as a WDC will then be just as attractive as Max and LH and above Charles etc. Webber will implore OP to do all that he can to prevent it and that’s what we’re seeing now.
It’s going to be interesting but Lando needs to look out for himself and trust that the future will be ok regardless. He has pace.
maz8062 said:
Anyway, Webber is in the McLaren garage on race day. He is making sure that his man is not getting shafted, I assume how he thinks he was. I’m guessing he was the one pushing for Lando to cede the position in Hungary and the same person being vocal for the team not to impose team orders at Monza. He has a lot of influence because he has somehow convinced Zak that Oscar is faster than Lando and is their best bet for a WDC.
What tripe
Webber is sat in the McLaren motorhome, if he's lucky.
Let's not be completely mis-guided and think that he has some kind of Batphone to the McLaren pitwall, telling them what they can and can't do
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff