Red bull and Honda
Discussion
TheDeuce said:
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You just have to try and force out of your mind all the crap cars they make for old people
Sadly that's a generalisation which rings broadly true. And , the fast but hideous looking Type R aside, I doubt if any current Honda would even be on a long list of cars I'd consider buying - and I'm far from young . My late dad had a series of Hondas to replace godawful BL cars and I never understood why they were so popular with the grey pound - nice enough inside but engines which only started to work properly at rpm people of his generation never ventured near - and you'd know why if you'd hear a typical Triumph or Morris at 5500rpm , You just have to try and force out of your mind all the crap cars they make for old people
Edited by TheDeuce on Saturday 23 February 21:39
Edited by TheDeuce on Saturday 23 February 23:04
Edited by TheDeuce on Saturday 23 February 23:05
But the current range - worthy but dull, fit for many purposes but not mine . This from a firm which in my early youth made the sublime little S800, and a 1.5 litre transverse V12 F1 car , later on was invincible in F1 turbo era and its NA successor. And made the NSX which every report said was infinitely better than the Ferrari 348 but what happened? 11 people bought one..
coppice said:
Sadly that's a generalisation which rings broadly true. And , the fast but hideous looking Type R aside, I doubt if any current Honda would even be on a long list of cars I'd consider buying - and I'm far from young . My late dad had a series of Hondas to replace godawful BL cars and I never understood why they were so popular with the grey pound - nice enough inside but engines which only started to work properly at rpm people of his generation never ventured near - and you'd know why if you'd hear a typical Triumph or Morris at 5500rpm ,
But the current range - worthy but dull, fit for many purposes but not mine . This from a firm which in my early youth made the sublime little S800, and a 1.5 litre transverse V12 F1 car , later on was invincible in F1 turbo era and its NA successor. And made the NSX which every report said was infinitely better than the Ferrari 348 but what happened? 11 people bought one..
Yes, they seem to go through dry patches when they release only dreary cars. I remember when the civic type R was released in the UK, and they only expected to sell a few hundred units, but they ended up selling more Type R's than any other variant! But that's because, frankly, it was astonishingly good and cheap. The more expensive S2000 a few years later was also excellent but people got hung up on a '£30k Honda' back then. Sold well enough but not as much as it deserved imo.But the current range - worthy but dull, fit for many purposes but not mine . This from a firm which in my early youth made the sublime little S800, and a 1.5 litre transverse V12 F1 car , later on was invincible in F1 turbo era and its NA successor. And made the NSX which every report said was infinitely better than the Ferrari 348 but what happened? 11 people bought one..
The current NSX is easily the most 'hybrid supercar' fun you can possibly get per pound spent, but of course, people don't buy them because anyone with £140k to spend doesn't think of the Honda brand.
As a brand, they seem to be both committed to the grey pound, but also held back by it. They have a long history of making extremely good value performance cars and hot variants of normal cars, that in most cases no one wants to buy. You can see why they might now be quite serious about doing well in F1 again, if only to re-energise their brand.
The first sign of a little dig at Honda?
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-bull-chassi...
"Red Bull boss Christian Horner thinks his team has got its chassis back on track judging by its pace at the Chinese Grand Prix, as he suggested the team's main deficit is now top speed."
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-bull-chassi...
"Red Bull boss Christian Horner thinks his team has got its chassis back on track judging by its pace at the Chinese Grand Prix, as he suggested the team's main deficit is now top speed."
thegreenhell said:
The first sign of a little dig at Honda?
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-bull-chassi...
"Red Bull boss Christian Horner thinks his team has got its chassis back on track judging by its pace at the Chinese Grand Prix, as he suggested the team's main deficit is now top speed."
It's always some one else's fault.https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-bull-chassi...
"Red Bull boss Christian Horner thinks his team has got its chassis back on track judging by its pace at the Chinese Grand Prix, as he suggested the team's main deficit is now top speed."
If it wasn't the engine, it would have been the wind but, absolutely, definitely NOT the fault of the aerodynamics being so susceptible to changes in the wind, that it was the most talked about thing between VER and his engineers ;-) Can't diss the Newey.
All we ever get from Horner is vitriolic spit and whining. About whatever, anything really.
The reality is that given their budget, they're about where we would expect them to be Vs Mercedes and Ferrari.
And they're red bull, it hardly matters, so long as they keep raising headlines then the brand is reinforced which is the whole point. On a personal level I think the one thing Horner would have prayed for this year, was for the honda PU to be superior to the Renault offering. It is, so I imagine he's actually fairly happy.
The fact max keeps on nipping at Ferrari toes is also going to help Horner sleep contentedly at night
The reality is that given their budget, they're about where we would expect them to be Vs Mercedes and Ferrari.
And they're red bull, it hardly matters, so long as they keep raising headlines then the brand is reinforced which is the whole point. On a personal level I think the one thing Horner would have prayed for this year, was for the honda PU to be superior to the Renault offering. It is, so I imagine he's actually fairly happy.
The fact max keeps on nipping at Ferrari toes is also going to help Horner sleep contentedly at night
I can't see any pops at Honda in that article.
The only piece below is not a quote.
"When you look on the overlays, particular sector one and sector two, we are in good shape. In sector three we still have some work to do, but we have some upgrades and so on coming soon that will help with that. So generally on that side, a positive weekend."
The reference to sector three in China, which includes the 1.2 kilometres long back straight, would appear to put the onus back on Red Bull's engine partner Honda to lift its game.
With rivals Ferrari and Mercedes having more aggressive engine modes to play with over a race weekend, Horner is hoping that gains will come on this front from Honda too.
"I think they are making progress with it," he said. "There is stuff in the pipeline that will certainly help but others aren't standing still.
The only piece below is not a quote.
"When you look on the overlays, particular sector one and sector two, we are in good shape. In sector three we still have some work to do, but we have some upgrades and so on coming soon that will help with that. So generally on that side, a positive weekend."
The reference to sector three in China, which includes the 1.2 kilometres long back straight, would appear to put the onus back on Red Bull's engine partner Honda to lift its game.
With rivals Ferrari and Mercedes having more aggressive engine modes to play with over a race weekend, Horner is hoping that gains will come on this front from Honda too.
"I think they are making progress with it," he said. "There is stuff in the pipeline that will certainly help but others aren't standing still.
Vaud said:
"I think they are making progress with it," he said. "There is stuff in the pipeline that will certainly help but others aren't standing still.
He's carefully setting a tone, though;"they", not us. The choice of language is telling - Honda are making progress, but if it isn't fast enough, it will be their fault not ours.
When my team is under pressure at work, upwards bad news is always "we", "us", "team". Not 'they", or "me".
JonChalk said:
He's carefully setting a tone, though;
"they", not us. The choice of language is telling - Honda are making progress, but if it isn't fast enough, it will be their fault not ours.
When my team is under pressure at work, upwards bad news is always "we", "us", "team". Not 'they", or "me".
I think too much can be read into one interview... picking one word... if he was annoyed then we would really know it."they", not us. The choice of language is telling - Honda are making progress, but if it isn't fast enough, it will be their fault not ours.
When my team is under pressure at work, upwards bad news is always "we", "us", "team". Not 'they", or "me".
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I like Horner, F1 would be a poorer place without him.
I agree, his presence would be missed - he's a red bull dream, drama and sporting spite personified. But all said and done, a bit of an arse Not sure if I'd go as far as to say I like him though. Let's just say... I can think of better people to go to the pub with. His wife for one
TheDeuce said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I like Horner, F1 would be a poorer place without him.
I agree, his presence would be missed - he's a red bull dream, drama and sporting spite personified. But all said and done, a bit of an arse Not sure if I'd go as far as to say I like him though. Let's just say... I can think of better people to go to the pub with. His wife for one
LaurasOtherHalf said:
TheDeuce said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I like Horner, F1 would be a poorer place without him.
I agree, his presence would be missed - he's a red bull dream, drama and sporting spite personified. But all said and done, a bit of an arse Not sure if I'd go as far as to say I like him though. Let's just say... I can think of better people to go to the pub with. His wife for one
TheDeuce said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
TheDeuce said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I like Horner, F1 would be a poorer place without him.
I agree, his presence would be missed - he's a red bull dream, drama and sporting spite personified. But all said and done, a bit of an arse Not sure if I'd go as far as to say I like him though. Let's just say... I can think of better people to go to the pub with. His wife for one
LaurasOtherHalf said:
TheDeuce said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
TheDeuce said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I like Horner, F1 would be a poorer place without him.
I agree, his presence would be missed - he's a red bull dream, drama and sporting spite personified. But all said and done, a bit of an arse Not sure if I'd go as far as to say I like him though. Let's just say... I can think of better people to go to the pub with. His wife for one
As for Horner, never met him but I don't doubt he's interesting. For me, it's just the smarm, it turns me off. I can see why he's perfect for the job though, and agree totally that the pit lane would be duller without him.
TheDeuce said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
TheDeuce said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
TheDeuce said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I like Horner, F1 would be a poorer place without him.
I agree, his presence would be missed - he's a red bull dream, drama and sporting spite personified. But all said and done, a bit of an arse Not sure if I'd go as far as to say I like him though. Let's just say... I can think of better people to go to the pub with. His wife for one
As for Horner, never met him but I don't doubt he's interesting. For me, it's just the smarm, it turns me off. I can see why he's perfect for the job though, and agree totally that the pit lane would be duller without him.
Unlike many other team principles and managers he’s certainly ‘been there and done that’ as far as racing’s concerned. He was never short of backing, that’s true, but he’s racing through and through.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 17th April 09:12
I don't care if he kicks puppies , frankly. Why do people expect successful team bosses , or drivers, to be wonderful human beings as well as being so good at their job ? And doesn't almost everyone look for some flaw , no matter how slight , in any person who has achieved success so they can whinge about them , presumably to compensate for being an ordinary Joe themselves ?
REALIST123 said:
Having met the guy a few times at charity functions and other events, I can tell you your perception is way off, just like a lot of other comment above about him, Honda and the car.
Unlike many other team principles and managers he’s certainly ‘been there and done that’ as far as racing’s concerned. He was never short of backing, that’s true, but he’s racing through and through.
Fair enough. Although I would argue my perception is correct by default, because it is 'my' perception Unlike many other team principles and managers he’s certainly ‘been there and done that’ as far as racing’s concerned. He was never short of backing, that’s true, but he’s racing through and through.
Edited by REALIST123 on Wednesday 17th April 09:12
But I have never met him so should probably keep my thoughts to myself... I suppose it is a little rude to discuss anyone's character without even meeting them.
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