Vietnamese Grand Prix 2020
Discussion
Deesee said:
Silverstone are charging 300£+ for a 3 day ticket (some of the stands are not even covered) they are even offering interest free credit for the tickets! Add car parking/camping etc...well we know.
...and even at those prices finding themselves having to pull the plug on their current contract because they just weren't making any money.Deesee said:
All to easy for London to slip in and pay a race fee if that’s the going rate for a seat.
Who's this London you speak of that's going to slip in and pay?Really can't see the mayors office/London assembly footing the bill - and, as a London resident/tax payer, I'd expect them to be levelling additional costs on any third party to cover the costs of extra policing/security, disruption due to road closures, etc.
And do you actually think a city-based GP in London would work out in any way cheaper than the one at Silverstone? I mean, there's not exactly a lot of campsites in London so you're looking at a hotel or long commute every day. While I doubt parking at Silverstone is cheap you'd be looking at say £100 to park within walking distance of a central London circuit, and that's IF you can find a space.
//j17 said:
And do you actually think a city-based GP in London would work out in any way cheaper than the one at Silverstone? I mean, there's not exactly a lot of campsites in London so you're looking at a hotel or long commute every day. While I doubt parking at Silverstone is cheap you'd be looking at say £100 to park within walking distance of a central London circuit, and that's IF you can find a space.
Well obviously they'd have to pick a day when the trains were running. Nobody actually drives into London for a day trip, do they?big_rob_sydney said:
I also like the tennis analogy; if for no other reason, than if I, as a fan, wanted to somehow get closer to the sport, I can go down to a sports store and buy the equipment for a few hundred quid, and take part myself. If I wanted to participate in F1, I'd struggle to raise the several hundred million pounds, so I think something in there about accessibility for the fans needs a shout? Standing in a crowded Silverstone mudbath and taking several hours to get out of the car park doesnt seem like much fun to me.
It's also a rather stupid analogy. Yes, you could kit yourself out to look like Roger Federer for a few hundred quid but you'd probably be playing on a badly maintained court on a local park not at Wimbledon.It doesn't cost "several hundred million pounds" to compete in club level motorsport, sure it's not F1 but the thrill when you're in the car is more than enough excitement for most of us.
As for Vietnaam, I'm totally underwhelmed by it, it's just a quick buck for Liberty with very little chance of survival even in the short term and they know it. It's a short term headline grabber that's all. I'm all for going to new places but at least pick somewhere that has a shot at surviving, this doesn't.
Norfolkit said:
As for Vietnaam, I'm totally underwhelmed by it, it's just a quick buck for Liberty with very little chance of survival even in the short term and they know it. It's a short term headline grabber that's all. I'm all for going to new places but at least pick somewhere that has a shot at surviving, this doesn't.
Maybe that's the idea. New venues, shorter leases, get the sport to new audiences and then move on. Street circuits are cheap and portable, move to new a new country get a better price for your TV rights and get the global sponsors in. 
Megaflow said:
Having watched the video about the ‘track’ on the F1 YouTube channel, I’ll be stunned if this happens in 2020. The area that is supposed to be the pits, paddock and final section of the circuit is currently a swamp, literally.
Looking at it from someone living in the UK I would agree with you.But when you see this it changes your mind. Yes it's in Japan but it just shows you have things can be done without all the red tape.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2016/nov/1...
It takes months for a pothole to be fixed in the UK
Megaflow said:
Having watched the video about the ‘track’ on the F1 YouTube channel, I’ll be stunned if this happens in 2020. The area that is supposed to be the pits, paddock and final section of the circuit is currently a swamp, literally.
On "The Inside Line" on Sky last night they were reporting that Zandvoort have also been offered a race for 2020 if they can get ready (they talked about Hanoi and Zanvoort).Didn't know how to take it, have they made an offer to Zandvoort thinking Hanoi won't happen, it's just hot air or maybe the Zandvoort offer is just a pie in the sky offer knowing there's too much work for 2020 (or ever maybe) but it keeps the traditionalists happy.
Not sure who puts that program together to be honest, don't think it's Sky.
coppice said:
DeejRC said:
Motor racing does not and never has existed because some oik liked motor sport. It exists and has always existed because of business cases.
"Fans" really need to learn to accept that nobody in the motor racing administration gives a f
k about them or has ever given a fk about them.
"Fans" really need to learn to accept that nobody in the motor racing administration gives a f
k about them or has ever given a fk about them.Your cynicism isn't entirely justified . Motor sport existed just fine when it looked at more than the bottom line . It needed to break even , of course , but was not hell bent on creating the the absurd cash cow which F1 has become. But in the wider context, most motor sport is not about profit , but about blokes messing around in cars . This weekend I am at a VSCC event which costs me only the fuel to get there , and the vast majority of stuff organised by HSCC , BARC, BRSCC , CSCC etc does not have profit at its core .
It is worth noting too that Silverstone charges a lot for entry to the GP because , just about uniquely, the government does not subsidise the race . Nor should it . But the likes of Azerbaijan are happy to lob the required numbers of dollars to pay for the race it uses to lord it over its neighbours .
Top level motorsport- GPs, etc - have ALWAYS been about money. The clue is almost in the name!
If there was a Tripoli GP I bet you think it would be because modern F1 had sold out and just gone to another outside-Europe location in some cynical cash grab right?
Most , but not all , top level motorsport has had a profit element . What has changed, since the age of Ecclestone , is that F1 has become almost exclusively about money. Hence the loss of races in F1 heartland and the dubious substitution of races in places with no local motorsport heritage at all.
'Not all ' as the organisers of events such as the RAC Rally , as was,the Monte Carlo Rally and the Targa Florio may have been attended by more spectators than the next 50 Baku GPs combined , but nearly everybody didn't pay a penny to watch
'Not all ' as the organisers of events such as the RAC Rally , as was,the Monte Carlo Rally and the Targa Florio may have been attended by more spectators than the next 50 Baku GPs combined , but nearly everybody didn't pay a penny to watch
Norfolkit said:
On "The Inside Line" on Sky last night they were reporting that Zandvoort have also been offered a race for 2020 if they can get ready (they talked about Hanoi and Zanvoort).
Whilst I would love to see Zandvoort host F1 again, there exists two factors that are worthy of consideration.The first is, that like Brands Hatch, the changes that would be needed to bring it to full FIA spec would render much of what makes it special, obsolete.
The second is that the demand for a Dutch GP is solely driven by one man; Max Verstappen. Whilst he is likely to be in F1 for many years to come...what if he isn't? I know there are many F1 and motor racing fans in The Netherlands but I wonder if it would be sufficient to support a GP there with no local hero. Places like Italy and the UK fill their circuits regardless of the nationalities on the grid. Not so sure this is the same in many other places so commercially, the risk would be significant.
//j17 said:
Deesee said:
Silverstone are charging 300£+ for a 3 day ticket (some of the stands are not even covered) they are even offering interest free credit for the tickets! Add car parking/camping etc...well we know.
...and even at those prices finding themselves having to pull the plug on their current contract because they just weren't making any money.Deesee said:
All to easy for London to slip in and pay a race fee if that’s the going rate for a seat.
Who's this London you speak of that's going to slip in and pay?Really can't see the mayors office/London assembly footing the bill - and, as a London resident/tax payer, I'd expect them to be levelling additional costs on any third party to cover the costs of extra policing/security, disruption due to road closures, etc.
And do you actually think a city-based GP in London would work out in any way cheaper than the one at Silverstone? I mean, there's not exactly a lot of campsites in London so you're looking at a hotel or long commute every day. While I doubt parking at Silverstone is cheap you'd be looking at say £100 to park within walking distance of a central London circuit, and that's IF you can find a space.
I would doubt there would be no shortage of title sponsors coming forwards to what would be a prestigious event, a number of the central parks could be converted to affordable camping, the effect and uplift on businesses around the area would support local government involvement, some of the European GP's already have local/regional support.
Anyway, I think the BRDC just have to be careful what they are trying to achieve, If they feel perhaps they can't justify the race fee, then they should move on and let someone else promote a GB GP.
Deesee said:
3 Million people move around London every morning and afternoon (including the commuters), plenty of hotels centrally and lots within say 50 mins on affordable public transport.
I would doubt there would be no shortage of title sponsors coming forwards to what would be a prestigious event, a number of the central parks could be converted to affordable camping, the effect and uplift on businesses around the area would support local government involvement, some of the European GP's already have local/regional support.
Anyway, I think the BRDC just have to be careful what they are trying to achieve, If they feel perhaps they can't justify the race fee, then they should move on and let someone else promote a GB GP.
That idea’s not worked too well in the past. I would doubt there would be no shortage of title sponsors coming forwards to what would be a prestigious event, a number of the central parks could be converted to affordable camping, the effect and uplift on businesses around the area would support local government involvement, some of the European GP's already have local/regional support.
Anyway, I think the BRDC just have to be careful what they are trying to achieve, If they feel perhaps they can't justify the race fee, then they should move on and let someone else promote a GB GP.
And given how poor the logistics have been at Silverstone for years, despite the massive investment and improvements, the thought of a GP in London is a nightmare.
Not saying it won’t happen though, as has been said, the travails of the punter are rarely taken into account.
Deesee said:
thegreenhell said:
Well obviously they'd have to pick a day when the trains were running. Nobody actually drives into London for a day trip, do they?
We do, park in New Bond Street, & Parking is mostly free in Westminster on a Sunday.
<London GP>
2. Plenty of hotels that don't have massive numbers of empty rooms during the tourist season, so unless you're going to hold the race in something like Feb/Nov you won't find many cheap rooms.
3. Provided you're not on a line that's on strike/has a weekend closure/random issue that shuts the line - which is daily life.
Deesee said:
3 Million people move around London every morning and afternoon (including the commuters), plenty of hotels centrally and lots within say 50 mins on affordable public transport.
1. 3 Million people just about move around London every morning and afternoon, if everything's working.2. Plenty of hotels that don't have massive numbers of empty rooms during the tourist season, so unless you're going to hold the race in something like Feb/Nov you won't find many cheap rooms.
3. Provided you're not on a line that's on strike/has a weekend closure/random issue that shuts the line - which is daily life.
Deesee said:
I would doubt there would be no shortage of title sponsors coming forwards to what would be a prestigious event
Really? We don't have any huge state-owned companies to do it and what would most others get out of it that they couldn't get just advertising around the event and with just a hospitality package?Deesee said:
a number of the central parks could be converted to affordable camping
Define "affordable"? A quick google found the 2015 royal parks rate card which suggests you're looking at an easy £1 Million just to hire one of the parks. The you have to hire/service toilet and washing facilities, security and fencing, etc. Now divide that by the number of cmaping spaces and...quite a lot per-night.Deesee said:
the effect and uplift on businesses around the area
Considering we're talking about one of the world's top tourist destinations WHAT uplift on businesses? As the race is basically a week-long event, not a 24hr thing like the marathon if anything it's going to be a business cost, due to the extra traffic, road closures, etc.Deesee said:
would support local government involvement, some of the European GP's already have local/regional support.
Is that why the local, regional and national governments in the UK pump so much money in to supporting the Silverstone GP?Deesee said:
Anyway, I think the BRDC just have to be careful what they are trying to achieve, If they feel perhaps they can't justify the race fee, then they should move on and let someone else promote a GB GP.
That's exactly what they are doing. They have always run the British GP as a way to generate revenue from the top level of motorsport to fund the lower levels. The fee escallator built in to their current deal means they either have to increase prices further or make a loss. They don't believe it's justifiable to charge any more than they already do or that those at the bottom of the motorsport tree should be paying to support those at the top so have said "This doesn't work for us, we can either renegotiate or you can walk away.". REALIST123 said:
Deesee said:
thegreenhell said:
Well obviously they'd have to pick a day when the trains were running. Nobody actually drives into London for a day trip, do they?
We do, park in New Bond Street, & Parking is mostly free in Westminster on a Sunday.
but I’m sure that Piccadilly area would be used, and could even keep Mrs C out of the shops!//j17 said:
<London GP>
2. Plenty of hotels that don't have massive numbers of empty rooms during the tourist season, so unless you're going to hold the race in something like Feb/Nov you won't find many cheap rooms.
3. Provided you're not on a line that's on strike/has a weekend closure/random issue that shuts the line - which is daily life.
1. Granted, so a couple of hundred thousand into W1, would not be a problem.
2. Plenty of rooms not in W1/Central that would be within a 40 min, Train/Boat/Bus/Tube ride.
3. TFL would need to organise around this like when the capital has multiple football/rugby matches on.
No, but we have some of the largest companies in the world with HQ in London, and more that are listed on the London Exchange, on top of that the State owned middle eastern companies have huge property interests here, a well as a certain state owned oil company that is looking to float. Post March next year GB will have to find new way of promoting trade, Im sure someone would come forwards with sizeable funds, London is the world centre for international investment.
The OPEN (golf) manage to do this for £40 a night and free for the under 25's I can't see why that would not be replicated.
Perhaps for some it could be detrimental, others beneficial in reality we don't know, until some looks at this in its entirety, but its fair to say when the Champions League Final, Heineken Cup Final, Euro 2020 come to town it has a huge uplift in spending.
Its my understanding that the GB GP receives no Government support.
Well they are claiming 4-7 million losses per event, so I'm unsure how they are generating revenue for Motorsport, they were quoted last year as..Deesee said:
3 Million people move around London every morning and afternoon (including the commuters), plenty of hotels centrally and lots within say 50 mins on affordable public transport.
1. 3 Million people just about move around London every morning and afternoon, if everything's working.2. Plenty of hotels that don't have massive numbers of empty rooms during the tourist season, so unless you're going to hold the race in something like Feb/Nov you won't find many cheap rooms.
3. Provided you're not on a line that's on strike/has a weekend closure/random issue that shuts the line - which is daily life.
1. Granted, so a couple of hundred thousand into W1, would not be a problem.
2. Plenty of rooms not in W1/Central that would be within a 40 min, Train/Boat/Bus/Tube ride.
3. TFL would need to organise around this like when the capital has multiple football/rugby matches on.
Deesee said:
I would doubt there would be no shortage of title sponsors coming forwards to what would be a prestigious event
Really? We don't have any huge state-owned companies to do it and what would most others get out of it that they couldn't get just advertising around the event and with just a hospitality package?No, but we have some of the largest companies in the world with HQ in London, and more that are listed on the London Exchange, on top of that the State owned middle eastern companies have huge property interests here, a well as a certain state owned oil company that is looking to float. Post March next year GB will have to find new way of promoting trade, Im sure someone would come forwards with sizeable funds, London is the world centre for international investment.
Deesee said:
a number of the central parks could be converted to affordable camping
Define "affordable"? A quick google found the 2015 royal parks rate card which suggests you're looking at an easy £1 Million just to hire one of the parks. The you have to hire/service toilet and washing facilities, security and fencing, etc. Now divide that by the number of cmaping spaces and...quite a lot per-night.The OPEN (golf) manage to do this for £40 a night and free for the under 25's I can't see why that would not be replicated.
Deesee said:
the effect and uplift on businesses around the area
Considering we're talking about one of the world's top tourist destinations WHAT uplift on businesses? As the race is basically a week-long event, not a 24hr thing like the marathon if anything it's going to be a business cost, due to the extra traffic, road closures, etc.Perhaps for some it could be detrimental, others beneficial in reality we don't know, until some looks at this in its entirety, but its fair to say when the Champions League Final, Heineken Cup Final, Euro 2020 come to town it has a huge uplift in spending.
Deesee said:
would support local government involvement, some of the European GP's already have local/regional support.
Is that why the local, regional and national governments in the UK pump so much money in to supporting the Silverstone GP?Its my understanding that the GB GP receives no Government support.
Deesee said:
Anyway, I think the BRDC just have to be careful what they are trying to achieve, If they feel perhaps they can't justify the race fee, then they should move on and let someone else promote a GB GP.
That's exactly what they are doing. They have always run the British GP as a way to generate revenue from the top level of motorsport to fund the lower levels. The fee escallator built in to their current deal means they either have to increase prices further or make a loss. They don't believe it's justifiable to charge any more than they already do or that those at the bottom of the motorsport tree should be paying to support those at the top so have said "This doesn't work for us, we can either renegotiate or you can walk away.". “We are pretty much a full house, and we are charging pretty much a full price, and we still can’t make the sums add up,” Stuart Pringle, the track’s sporting director, has said.
Simple Fag pack maths suggests they somehow need to find an extra £70 profit per person to breakeven, lord knows what that would extend to in terms of turnover/sales.
The hybrid part street part track concept is an interesting idea, even if its somewhat obvious and overdue to many of us fans its good liberty are looking into it as a way of addressing the problems associated with street circuits.
As this is the first new/additional circuit to be added to the calendar under liberty's stewardship it'll be interesting to see how they handle it.
As this is the first new/additional circuit to be added to the calendar under liberty's stewardship it'll be interesting to see how they handle it.
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